New Lautner Bulls

[Turkey Creek Ranch]

I just got my copy of Livestock Plus Inc. and was looking through the new Lautner bulls. I was wondering what everyone thinks of them. On thing that i noticed, is that some of them toe-out a little on their front legs. The one that i noticed the most is I Am Legend, his front hooves are angled out at almost a 45. Just wanted to know what everyone thinks of them.

 

[red]

I got Livestock Plus & Show circuit today. noticed that almost every bull including Lautners has their status listed. Think that deserves a big Steer Planet salute!!!  (clapping) (clapping) (clapping) (thumbsup) (thumbsup)

Red

 

[showsteerdlux]

I got Livestock Plus & Show circuit today. noticed that almost every bull including Lautners has their status listed. Think that deserves a big Steer Planet salute!!!  (clapping) (clapping) (clapping) (thumbsup) (thumbsup)

Red

I'll 2nd that!! (clapping) (clapping) (clapping) (thumbsup)

 

[Turkey Creek Ranch]

Yes, i noticed that also. Only thing i saw was that some were still pending testing. I understand wanting to get advertisement going, just hope they update that in further issues.

 

[BCCC]

I have noticed that they all have simalar looks,  I like crimson tide except he is PHAC, High Profile, Rain Maker, and I am ledgend, they are all fairly deep, with great hair, and bone

 

[DL]

I got Livestock Plus & Show circuit today. noticed that almost every bull including Lautners has their status listed. Think that deserves a big Steer Planet salute!!!  (clapping) (clapping) (clapping) (thumbsup) (thumbsup)

Red

Better late than never, but I am not sure finally getting on board is worth a big SP salute

 

[DL]

I got Livestock Plus & Show circuit today. noticed that almost every bull including Lautners has their status listed. Think that deserves a big Steer Planet salute!!!  (clapping) (clapping) (clapping) (thumbsup) (thumbsup)

Red

Better late than never, but I am not sure finally getting on board is worth a big SP salute

Frankly it's their bull...they don't have to disclose anything if they don't want to.....Phil disclosing the status saves everyone the leg work of finding out themselves...Don't be such a nag......

Many bull owners were and still are guilty of sins of omission, some bull owners finally realized that some customers cared if they disclosed all the information, many people continue to be ignorant about TH and PHA (if you doubt that check out the recent SS post), disclosing this information is the right thing to do (and if nagging helped to get the information disclosed than more power to nagging) - do you get big applauds every time you do something right just because it is the right thing to do? not likely unless you inhabit a parallel universe - 

 

[red]

Why am I not surprised that would be the attitude? sometimes I think people need to step back & just acknowledge when someone is trying to do the right thing. I didn't say everyone had the status but there were more than not listed. Also most of the newer bulls have their status posted. Still believe they deserve a big steer Planet salute & I bet more would agree w/ me than not.

JMO,
Red

 

[chambero]

DL needs to be given all the credit in the world for being one of the leaders in helping get these genetic defect issues out to the open air.  She helped a whole lot of cattle breeders in a big way

I have no idea, but I suspect there may have been some tense conversations with some of the big breeders when trying to figure out what was happening and how to go about going public with it.  When I get mad at someone, one of my weaknesses is that I have a hard time getting over it.  I don't know if that's the case here or not, but I don't hold it against someone for having hard feelings against others.

However, there are still a lot of breeders - particularly smaller ones - that don't say anything about the status of their bulls.  So, even if it may be late, the ones that do post the information still need to be appreciated.  It may be a responsibility, but at least they do it. 

Other "breeds" have their issues also that they don't say much if anything about.  So, I think we need to quit beating our club calf breeders up so much.  In the grand scheme of things they are more honest than most.  As much as I like Angus cattle, I don't believe but about every tenth word I read in their publications or hear some of the big breeders saying.  So much of what they do is a "racket" to.  But that doesn't take away from the fact they are good cattle - just like Lautners bull tend to sire good show steers more often than anyone elses.

 

[red]

I agree chambero about DL & her work. Not taking anything from her on that point. But I don't think that she'll ever be behind some of the breeders no matter what they do. I just think that when people try to do the right thing they need to be acknowledged too. If you look at the number of carrier bulls being used in flushes at the Frozen Gold you get the feeling that there is still a huge group that doesn't care or it doesn't matter.

 

[chambero]

Your exactly right Red.  I've given up on trying to explain the fact our black replacement heifers come from clean lines.  90% of the people just don't care.  From a sales perspective, the main benefit of having non-carrier black females is being able to tell people you can breed them to the Heat Wave line.

 

[DL]

Thanks chambero I appreciate your comments. Having just been involved with several genetic issues in the Angus breed it is clear to me that silence and ostriches are not limited to any breed or for that matter any species.

The people that stepped up to the plate in the beginning, in some instances took the financial hit, did it before it became well known or the right thing to do are the people I think deserve applause - whether this is the Angus breeder in Wash with the long nosed dwarfs, the Shorthorn breeders in the midwest with TH, the Australian group with FCS, or Griswold with Irish Whiskey - they had the guts to do the right thing  at the right time

It is easy for people to follow, especially when their financial interests might be in jeopardy if they don't. Doing "the right thing" when almost everyone else is doing it doesn't make it any less right but in my book it makes it much less laudable.

It is reminiscent of the Lederer book "A Nation of Sheep".....

 

[Show Heifer]

Red's quote:" Why am I not surprised with the attitude?"

Why am I not surprised with the defensiveness?
I got Lvstk Plus also and thought I would keep some of these thoughts to myself....but since we are there....
lautner isn't doing the "right" thing....he's doing the financially correct thing to do, plus he is saving himself hundreds of calls asking for the same information...and if he was interested in doing the "right thing", my guess is he has had these bulls since AT LEAST Dec of 07. He took many of them to Denver, and now it is March and STILL NO TEST RESULTS ON PHA???? Is that called "doing the right thing?" Or is that called getting the hype then adding a side note?
Another thing I noticed and couldn't help but laugh, but one of matt lautners ad had a picture of an orange with a zipper half unzipped with the comment saying "too bad we can't make everyting this easy...." My first thought was "C-section". And why would you infer that using your bulls would create a c-section which would make things "easier"..... I am sure that was not his intent, but I talked to a friend and that is exactly what they thought too.
And i won''t even mention the other ad.

Frozen Gold sale: some folks don't mind or care, and that is THEIR choice, BUT MAKE SURE THOSE THAT DO CARE HAVE THE INFORMATION TO MAKE THE CHOICE WITH THE PROPER INFORMATION.

I find it odd how some people can change their stance on a subject mid stream and then try and be a part of both sides. Some are more talented at this than others. I don't think following the crowd and TRYING to do the right thing (after the nagging of those of us that have been called some very unflattering names) deserve nothing but a "huh, finally."

So I guess you can add me to the list DL is on....not the cheerleading crowd.

 

[knabe]

it's apparent to me that there are still a considerable number of people who will continue to use carrier bulls. 

it's apparent to me that there are a considerable number of people who won't.

it's a free market, and the free market has rewarded reporting carrier status. 

that to me is a huge stride.

that's why i like a free market.  stifle debate, and no progress is made.  see, there, there's playing both sides of an issue right there?  logic only seeks to make one choose.  even this is a false choice as i haven't seen anything that hasn't been about relativity.  choice is simply a trap.  choices only exist in binary code and are at best theorhetical.  even despots did good things, and even good presidents did bad things.  there are no 1's and 0's in life.

 

[Dusty]

I believe TH is a necessary evil.  The bulls that throw the good calves are carriers.  I personally think there is a link somewhere between TH and bone and hair.  If you know a calf's pedigree and look at him you can usually make a pretty good guess on whether or not he will be a carrier.  There will be people that use the carrier bulls because they make their living selling show calves.  There will even be people that flush a carrier cow to a carrier bull in hopes that the few good ones more than pay for the dead ones.

 

[Jill]

Ok, I'm going to put in my 2 cents, we have this discussion about once every 2 months and none of us are going to change our opinions. 
Some of you may be shocked to know that Phil Lautner markets his semen to the club calf industry, most of those folks are looking to produce champion steers on some level, they aren't looking for genetic perfection .  While TH and PHA are a genetic problem, they are also a managable problem.  Most of the bulls listed in the catalog are TH carriers because they are the bulls producing the steers that are winning, those bulls will continue to sell semen as long as they are producing steers that are winning. 

"It is easy for people to follow, especially when their financial interests might be in jeopardy if they don't." 
I highly doubt that Mr. Lautner's financial interest are in jeopardy one way or another.

 

[frostback]

I got Livestock Plus & Show circuit today. noticed that almost every bull including Lautners has their status listed. Think that deserves a big Steer Planet salute!!!  (clapping) (clapping) (clapping) (thumbsup) (thumbsup)

Red

Better late than never, but I am not sure finally getting on board is worth a big SP salute

Sometimes there is no pleasing people unless its done their way and only their way. RA RA RA
(thumbsup) (thumbsup) (thumbsup) To Mr. Lautner.

 

[knabe]

i think the point was a tiny salute, not no salute.

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

Outsiders view of this repetative controversy. Those who have carrier females or use carrier bulls are on one side of this battle, those who don't have or use carrier animals are on the other side of the battle. The problem lies in the fact that there are people in the middle who are unaware that there is a problem, and yes there are people that prey on these people and make their living from them. I frankly don't care if you breed clean to clean or carrier to carrier as it does not affect me in the Red Angus purebred/seedstock business. Not many people who buy "clubbie" bulls are going to buy R A bulls and vice versa. Truthfully I should be hoping that everyone forgets the whole thing and just keeps breeding and selling carriers to their commercial customers until their commercial customers start having multiple dead calves at which point I will be able to offer "clean" genetics to them. The only real concern is that many people are finding the R A females as tremendous brood cows and how long do you think it will be before someone registers a Heat Seeker X R A heifer as a purebred R A, thus contaminating the gene pool of the breed. My guess is that this has already happened and in the days to come, we as a breed will have to deal with it. I will have to say that this is one of the few known genetic deffects that has not been erradicated by the breeders themselves and simply treated as a managable bump in the road. I guess genetic defects are viewed differently by alot of people - argue it any way you want to but to me the words "genetic deffect" says it all.

 

[Show Heifer]

Oh RW....I have used that arguement (go ahead and sell those carriers to the commercial fella and create dead cows/heifers/calves, and then let them come to me and buy black angus cattle) and boy, did I get unloaded on. Maybe they will go easy on you!
And yes, I am sure in both black and red angus there are some "registered purebred" animals that have a touch of something else in them (ok, maybe more than a touch!) and were dirty genetics (after all, isn't that the "look"??? ???). That goes back to my arguement that there are "purebred" cattle breeds anymore.
Anyway....love em or hate em, lautner does have the "eye" for bulls and does a heck of a job presenting and promoting. And he has made a heck of a living doing it. (Yes, his financial well being DOES depend on his semen sales.)