NEW TO THE SHORTHORN BREED HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS

[CWshorthorns]

THANK YOU TO ALL THAT HAVE HELPED

 

[thunderdownunder]

Off topic, but if you are interested in any Australian genetics, I can certainly help you there.

As a number of people have already pointed out, it's all very well to look at pedigrees, but without seeing the cow AND the bull, it is very hard for anyone to give some solid advice here. Look at the type of cow you have, decide what type of animal you want to breed - show or real world - and go from there.

 

[Shady Lane]

I guess what I don't understand on the 20,000$ bull deal is several things. I assume the group of 8 breeders have one person bid. So was the runner up bidder a syndicate.....they bid 19,000$ or a single breeder. Did they bid in increments of 100$ or 1000$ or what. The bull is so good you have 3 or 4 sydicates bidding on a bull like this? How can a yearling bull breed naturally in 4 herds at once. Good luck with the board. I didn't see Shadylane mention the Timeline bull in there herdsires on the website and they listed 10 or so. I shall cease and desist.

AJ,

Thank you for your interest in my program, it appears as though you have taken the time to research my operation and breeding program since you have "searched my website".

I've stayed out of this whole debacle because I find it to be pointless, childish and time consuming. However, since my name was mentioned along with an entirely false piece of information I felt it was right to comment.

The whole thing is, I don't have a website at the present time, and never have for that matter. One of those things I have never gotten around to. So I'm pretty sure you didn't see Timeline listed on my website along with my last ten herdsires. However I can tell you a little bit about how I became involved in the syndicate and my involvement to date.

In the spring of 2008 I was seriously looking for a new herdsire. I had travelled to most of the Shorthorn bull sales in Western Canada for a couple years as well as walked miles of pasture looking at bull calves and prospects as well as trolled the stalls at most of the major shows in this part of the world looking for my next sire and just not finding the “right bull”. So when the catalogue came out for the first edition of the “Sun Country” sale I carefully studied the catalogue, the bulls, their pictures, their pedigrees and their performance data. Timeline was the bull that immediately came to the front of that group in my mind. After a few phone calls with Justintime as well as some of the other consignors and people who had been through the bulls, I decided I would drive out and see him for myself, if he was as good as I thought he was, I had my mind made up to buy him. The night before the sale I hooked onto my trailer and headed for the sale to see him in the flesh, about a 600 mile drive each way.
A few hours into my trip I got a phone call from a friend and fellow shorthorn breeder that lives about 250 miles north-east of me. After the usual pleasantries and “what are you doing”, I say “I’m headed to Kisbey for the Sun Country sale tomorrow”, he asks if I’m pulling a trailer, I tell him “yes”,  then he states, “well you must be planning on buying a bull”. I tell him there is one I have in mind that I hope to get bought if he is as good as I think he is. So this conversation turns into a game of cat-and-mouse over which lot# I have my eye on. As it turns out he is also pulling a trailer and hoping to get a bull, Guess What? Same bull! So I’m a little deflated because now we both know we have to bid against each other and the biggest bank book is going to win. So we decide to partner up, along with another mutual friend of ours that has been getting into Shorthorns the last few years and comes from a very major Simmental and Black Angus breeding operation.
We rendezvous the next morning and go through all the bulls in the pens and decide that Timeline is in fact the bull to buy. He is massively constructed, hairy, beautiful fronted, big footed, sound as a cat and his phenotype goes along with very impressive performance and scan data and comes out of a fantastic donor and brood matron that is backed by a very powerful cow family. After looking at literally hundreds of Shorthorn bull calves, this is the first “must have” bull that I’ve seen in quite some time and a bull that I feel has the right tools to add to my cow herd, compliment my existing genetics and move my operation in the direction I’d like to see it go.

So the three of us are coming up with a plan of attack and counting our pennies, deciding on how much capital we can afford to invest in this bull and how he will be shared amongst us, we stat up a conversation with another friend of ours that is involved in the management of the sale and ask him about other interest on the bull. We find out that there are two other groups of breeders also trying to buy the bull and they have both amassed more money the three of us can com up with on our own. So faced with the decision of knowing we will be out bid and not own any of the bull, we decide to join one of the groups and contribute jointly and get the bull bought. When the hammer falls, 8 of us have teamed up together and outbid the other group and have purchased the bull for $20,000 CDN, effectively contributing $2,500 each.

So I end up making a 1,200 mile round trip pulling an empty stock trailer (in a raging blizzard to boot) as the bull leaves directly from the sale to be collected at a stud for use by the partners.

As for how the bull gets used in 4 different herds in the same breeding season, quite simple. He goes from the stud to Dixon Farms at Vermillion AB 250 miles to the NE of me where he covers a group of females naturally, then to my place later in the breeding season, I estrumate a group of females and expose the bull for 2 weeks and end up with a few pregnancies, he then goes to Huberdale Farms at Lipton Sk  500+ miles to the east of here where they expose a group of females to him, primarily females in their production sale that was held in the fall of ’08. At the same time Craig Andrew from Paragon Land and Cattle hauls females to Huberdale and pastures them with Huber’s cattle and Timeline. Sadly Craig passed away January of ’09 so unfortunately Craig never got to see the benefit of Timeline’s use. Timeline ran on pasture at Huberdale until the fall of ’08 and then was wintered at Justintime’s place until coming back to Shady Lane, here in Beiseker AB last April where I used him naturally. The pictures that have been posted on Steer Planet were taken by myself here at my place. So I am waiting on my second crop of Timeline calves.

So, I hope that long winded post explains to you the purchase of the bull, his history and use and how we managed to use the bull in 4 herds naturally.

AJ, I’m unsure as to why you have taken such an issue with our bull, his purchase price and how we have managed him as partners, there have been many bulls before and since that have sold for more money and that have been owned by at least as many partners, both in and out of the Shorthorn breed. If you search back to when the bull was sold, there is a post from Uluru verifying the legitimate purchase price of the bull, (Uluru being the man who handled the money and invoicing from the sale). Frankly the purchase price of the bull is irrelevant in my mind. I’m pretty sure that 10 years from now the money we paid for the bull will be forgotten but his genetic impact will be remembered.

All that I would ask is that you not make false posts regarding information about myself or my operation and a so-called list of 10 of my herdsires, such a web page simply doesn’t exist. On the same note I would be more then happy to send you photo’s and pedigree information of sires I have used in the past.

I’ve included pictures of Timeline taken here during ’09 breeding season as well as some of the first calves born here sired by Timeline.

The red heifer pictured on stubble, born March 20 ’09 out of a first calf heifer. This was a heifer I had planned on consigning to the sale in Denver but she was purchased prior to catalogue time privately by an Angus breeder in eastern Canada, she is pictured at apporximately 6 months of age. The Roan heifer is also out of a first calf heifer and she is pictured at a little less than 3 months of age. She remains in my herd.

I've included a photo I took of Timeline at home on may 23 09 of Timeline while running with some females at home here, as well as another of him slick sheared and kicked out in some VERY rough pasture 25 miles north of here in late june. We had less than 2" of rain from September '08 through mid August of '09 so it was a pretty tough year in this part of the world. So this is Timeline in his working clothes.

 

[aj]

I guess I googled Shadybrook shorthorns. I got a shadybrook website. Guess I have have never heard of Shadylane. I have heard of a shady pines rest home though. I don't really care how far you have to drive with an empty trailer. I don't care if you walk to school in blizzard uphill both ways 5 miles.  I don't give a damn what you do in Canada. I have questioned the fact the fact that your Timeline bull brought 20,000$. Its not real high on my list of priorities. I question it. It isn't a live or die scenario for me. I think a bull that cost 20,000$ has 14 registered calves in two countries is fair game for scrutiny. This is your story not mine. Can the Timeline bull be used on the heifer in question? What was the birthweight of the bull? Can he be used on heifers. What is a share worth in the bull.....3,000 $. You have advertised a 20,000 $ bull. I questioned the fact. Prove me wrong. I think a 20,000 $ dollar bull that sired 14 calves that no one has heard of is a bad investment. Thats just my opinion lord forgive me for questioning the almighty Canadian establishment of shorthorn breeders. I think Timeline at 20,000$ is a bad investment. I could have gone 2,000$ and tried him on the neighbors cows first. That is my opinion. Who was the runner up bidder on the bull in the sale. Did he bid 19,000$. Its a pretty simple question? I'm sure the machine can come up with some kind of answer. If the bull is a 20,000$ bull I will help you promote him. Heck I will buy a share on a bull I will never use and will never sell semen on(how do the Canadians put it) for the fun of it. (clapping)

 

[knabe]

aj, first, you said there was only 1 registered calf.  i found some more registered calves that you were more interested in bashing than spending 5 minutes which it took me to find them and you are a shorthorn breeder and i am not.

second, you got a website wrong.

third, you said this bull is not high on your list of priorities.  that's a lie.  you spend more time bashing this bull than HSUS does the cattle industry.

fourth.  it is not necessary to prove you wrong about the price of a bull.  why don't you produce some tax returns and sales receipts on animals you buy and sell and lets see if they all match up.

fifth.  why would anyone use an unproven bull on heifers?

sixth. why forgive you for something you clearly are not sorry for?

seventh.  would you turn down more than market price for any of your animals?

eighth.  why would you try a bull on your neighbors cows before yours?

ninth.  where is the scrutiny on all the other new bulls out there.  this appear personal with you and looks like it has nothing to do with cattle.

tenth.  who lists runner up bidders in any sale?  have you ever done that or demanded it when you lost out and did you post your bids somewhere so we could all see?

eleventh.  your humor finds a way of pissing everyone off.

 

[aj]

One calf in the USA...13 under the Canada system.

 

[aj]

I assume you aren't going to invite me over to your table at the Lousiville exposition for a wine spritzer. ;D

 

[knabe]

if i come to your your table, i assume you are going to serve me tobacco spit? ;D

 

[aj]

In my opinion the bull will be a cow killer. Just an opinion. You asked. I replied.Just my opinion. Just my opinion. I am a jealous piece of crap. But I sleep well at night.

 

[aj]

I don't chew or smoke....I do like a touch of the grape on special occasions.

 

[knabe]

In my opinion the bull will be a cow killer. Just an opinion. You asked. I replied.Just my opinion. Just my opinion. I am a jealous piece of crap. But I sleep well at night.

you inferred he would be a heifer killer.  now it's a cow killer.  thick cattle are always questionable regarding calving ease.  it's clear you are not jealous.  after an exhausting text, many people sleep well at night.

 

[knabe]

I don't chew or smoke.....

you don't have to to serve it.  you missed the metaphor.  you used a metaphor with the spritzer.

 

[aj]

Just think about the increase in traffic of people viewing this thread for laughs. Is it called guerilla marketing though. It would be hard for people to prefer my Kansas common sense to your California way of thinking. I give up.

 

[aj]

Mom.....make him quit. He's picking on me. ;D

 

[aj]

I'm sure frostback is ready to lay the hammer..I request forgiveness in advance.

 

[frostback]

No hammer just pity, I feel sorry for you and really sorry for your wife.

 

[aj]

Atta girl!

 

[knabe]

I give up.

please do.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Shady Lane and JiT-that is an awesome bull in the field-finally someone up there got a butt -hip picture that goes along with that deep ribbed easy keeping look.IiM JUST BEING A RABBLE ROUSER-GOOD THING rash Limpd#$%^k doesnt raise Shorthorns-and there are alot of good x-bred and steer calves that dont get registered-Great looking bull-hope we can get some semen-and as you may have gathered-I dont kiss no ones A6679s O0

 

[Steered]

AJ-
Please do not tell everyone you are from Kansas...it gives Kansas a black eye.  Why don't you give your keyboard a rest.

P.S.  The dollar sign goes in front of the number.