Old Maine Bulls

[764wdchev]

I like to trace back pedigrees, and recently found the pedigree of an old Maine bull that I have semen on. His name is Destiny, bred by Viking Ranch, and he traces back to Goliaths Mr Dollar, Dollar 2, Etibo, Red Knight, and Shaver Buret. Can anyone give information on these bulls, or pictures of what they looked like?

Thank you. 

 

[xxcc]

Image might have quicker access than me.
The only ones I think were readily available in picture were Dollar II, Red Knight and Buret.

I don't know who might have a pic of Etibo. There should be one, but Goliath's Mr Dollar...that would be a rare find.

 

[doc-sun]

Dollar 2 and buret were big correct Bulls so you will have to watch what you breed him to. Might work on I-80 small COWS

 

[764wdchev]

How big is your big? Any idea how those lines worked for producing females? Should i expect 100+ lbs BW? Just trying to figure what i would be getting into.

 

[knabe]

Not sure I understand what you have.

If it's verifiable fullblood semen then I would only breed it to Canadian herdbiok parentsge verifiable females and get offspring into their herdbiok.

Anything else is a waste.

 

[Mark H]

Shaver Buret is from Shaver farms out of the first import Maine bull registered in Canada Buret.  Gary Graham owned Buret and selected him in France as a calf.  If anyone knows about this bull it would be Gary Graham.  Here is his website: http://www.manitoumaineanjou.ca/
I saw Dollar 2nd in stud at Western Breeders and he was a massive individual being 3,200 LB at the time.  He was smooth compared to many of the French Imports at the time and the calves I saw were good.  A problem soon reared his head when it was found out the hard way he was heterozygous for double muscling.  This effectively ended his use in many purebred herds.  His birth weights weren't the lightest but they weren't the worst either.  Cows only here.
These were very big cattle; average 100 LB plus birth weights were common in Western Canada on these bulls from purebred and fullblood cows.  Your birth weight may be less depending on where you are.  The cows produced were also big- 1,750 to 2,000 LB with some larger.
Like many European beef breeds at the time the yearling bulls had small testicles.  I have seen Maine Anjou bull sales where they had many bulls not make the sale for this reason.
Red Knight was more calving ease oriented than the above two bulls being breed in Canada.  For a Maine calving ease bull look at Coca Cola.  For the longest, muscled out, heavy boned and hard calving bull look at Crack.

 

[doc-sun]

So Gary picked loulou and buret out as calves in France one in 1968 for shaver and 1 in 1975 for himself?

 

[Mark H]

Gary was part of a group that went to France to select the first Maines to come to Canada.  On this web site he has a picture of himself posing with Buret. He made regular importations over the years and studied the French bloodlines extensively.  He also has used some of the  new Rouge des Pres bulls.  It would be interesting to find out if bulls such as Spaghetti worked in North America.  Right now the fullblood Maines in North America badly need some  outcross with out double muscling genetics; this may prove difficult since the breed has become a specialized intensive production breed with selection for double muscling common.

 

[doc-sun]

What are some examples of bloodlines you can cross with each other and get a double muscled calf?

 

[knabe]

North American fullbloods are not selected for double muscle.

The French population has been for a while.

They are moving away from it now.

The even test for it.

There is anew defect on the recently imported bulls.

I can't remember if spaghetti was one

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Dollar 2ND

 

[764wdchev]

Thank you for the pictures and information.

I was asking how big for a reference point. I like big cattle, and had some 1900 lbs cows, so I call them big, but my brother in law has commercial black cows, and thinks 1300 is big. I can calve 100+ lbs calves because everything on my cows is bigger. But a 100 lbs calf, or an 90lbs calf is not acceptable to the average commercial herd, at least not in NW Iowa. So if i bred to this bull it would be for nostalgia.

Knabe, How do you verify this is a fullblood Maine? His registration number is 1406 in the American Maine Anjou Association Digital Beef Registry. the bull's name is Destiny.

My father bought into this bull when the Shorthorns opened up the herdbook to Red Maines. I inventoried semen tanks and found straws on this bull, and upon pedigree searches, I found that he sired a bull that Wayne McKee and my father shared extensively, back in the day.

Thanks again for any info.

 

[knabe]

it will take some doing.


his sire might be one of these two.


http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=20352036&2=2435&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=59245C5B5A2626252F&8=56&10=3F03050D3D51393A0F0B05023959200F2D&11=20


if so, if there is collection records, he might be accepted into the canadian association by petition.


the reason for this, whether he has any physical merit, is genetic merit.


the canadian association only allows parentage verified animals.


since destiny's dam is in the association and his sire might be, if there are collection/purchase records, this might be useful.


typically, when bulls came down from canada, their name was changed and the americans never did much verification.


since the gene pool is narrow as it is for fullbloods, anything at this point might be genetically useful for diversity.


someone went to the trouble to fill out his pedigree, records must exist.


it's a shame these older bulls that there are rare repositories of semen can't be integrated into the genepool on a case by case basis, since the pool is so narrow, anything at this point on a percent of total diversity might be useful.


can you say how many units you have?

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Mckee had a bull Sir Destiny 3884743 B 1990  Sired by Cunias Image AR3884743-: who was a Goliaths Dollar X a Spiros Plumber Nodack tradition cow. Like Harold Hoskins said-The Maine Dual Thing Works. O0 O0

 

[764wdchev]

I think I have around 20 units, I used some a few years ago for a flush. Someday I hope to have some extra cows to put them in. It has more info on the straws, but I don't like to handle them if I absolutely don't have to.

I know a lot about Sir Destiny. My Dad raised him, and we traded bulls with Wayne McKee for many many years. I have three calves sired by Sir Destiny on the ground right now, the two heifers are really impressive. Sir Destiny was sired by Cunias Image, he was sired by Destiny, he was sired by Goliaths Dollar.

Wayne and I both still have semen on Sir Destiny, and surprising to me, the birthweights are in the 80s.To my knowledge I am the only one with Destiny semen, and I fully believe he is a fullblood, and would definitely like to work with someone to propagate more fullbloods.

I will see if my Mom has some pictures of Destiny. I find it amazing what they kept, there are boxes and boxes of pedigrees.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Destiny is on Shorthorn .org Search the breed as follows- Destiny MA7232 sire-Goliaths Mr Dollar MA105  Dam Miss RK Bilina MA84224. Id pay up for 3-5 straws on Sir Destiny-I remember when Mckees advertised him in 1992-real long goosey looking but must have had a butt on him too O0

 

[764wdchev]

PM me, and if that doesn't work I'll post my phone number.

 

[doc-sun]

Dollar 2ND

AS OPPOSED TO THIS 18 MO OLD FULLBLOOD BULL THAT CAN BE REGISTERED AS A 3/4 SHORTHORN WITH A BUTT SINCE HIS SIRE AND DAM ARE REGISTERED AS 3/4 IN ASA.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Hes a looker what do you think BWs will be like O0

 

[764wdchev]

Is he a Yukon son?