Pedigree-O-philes start your engines - the hunt continues

[aj]

It seems like there is kind of a "don't ask don't tell" in the Shorthorn pha deal right now. Maybe in the herd reference issue of the shorthorn country  the status of pha free bulls wil be advertised. Cagwin puts it out in june or july I think. (welcome)

 

[DL]

Yeah, I agree - everyone seems to mention TH in the Shorthorn Country but rarely PHA, even with the freaky pedigree, and it seems many of the sales just ignore the issue.

Here is a question -  you have a Maine or Shorthorn bull with no Improver, Outcast, Draft Pick, Stinger - is it a good marketing strategy to test them for both defects and advertise as such? Does anybody see a down side to that?

Sabres won -looked great - wearing my Sabre hat with pride (can be a dangerous thing in dead wing land!

 

[red]

Yeah, I agree - everyone seems to mention TH in the Shorthorn Country but rarely PHA, even with the freaky pedigree, and it seems many of the sales just ignore the issue.

Here is a question -  you have a Maine or Shorthorn bull with no Improver, Outcast, Draft Pick, Stinger - is it a good marketing strategy to test them for both defects and advertise as such? Does anybody see a down side to that?

Sabres won -looked great - wearing my Sabre hat with pride (can be a dangerous thing in dead wing land!

I'd sure advertize as a clean alternative for carrier females or just as a clean bull. I sure don't see a downside!


Red

 

[red]

So, if I'm to understand the previous thread, Polleriod is clean!!!!!
I'll take my poop anytime!

Way to go Jerry! (cow)

Red

So, does that mean Roots isn't Roots?

 

[Jill]

I guess just speaking from our own farm and several around here, our genetics go back and forth between Maine and Shorthorn for the Appendix-Maintainer deal, knowing the PHA status of a Shorthorn bull would be just as important to me as the TH status.  The last list I saw of PHA carriers Shorthorns were as numerous as the Maines.

 

[DL]

So, if I'm to understand the previous thread, Polleriod is clean!!!!!
I'll take my poop anytime!

Way to go Jerry! (cow)

Red

So, does that mean Roots isn't Roots?

Yes, Polleroid is clean. I have no idea what it means for Roots - the who's your daddy deal is a s big in cattle as for poor ol'd Anna Nicole Smith's baby....


Yeah, Jill there are a lot of Shortie PHA carriers too and then there is always the popular double carriers....

 

[DL]

Just to add intrigue to the enigma or stir sj's pot or add another puzzle to the question

The AMAA genetic defect list has been updated


xxcc and others have collected a flock (does semen come in flocks) of old fullblood semen to test to narrow down the dirty doer (DD)....

There are quite a few interesting females on the list...

If you notice that Covino III is on the PHAC list I AM ABSOLUTELY SURE IT IS A MISTAKE - I have an email from Dr B saying he is clean and believe it is a clerical error - if not the hunt is officially over (or close to it!). I have emailed the AMAA re it

beautiful day - off to work outside....dl

 

[red]

DL- list must not be up on the AMMA website, just looked. The old list has Covino III as clean.None of the cattle you memtioned is on the list as posted. Where did you find the new one?
Wow, plot gets deeper & deeper! I just posted a thread on good books to read- said I like mystery novels, this is about as good as it gets!
Got to get back to my weeding. Those weeds just won't come out on their own!


Red

 

[DL]

Red - maybe it is your new high speed - it is so fast you missed it! We land liners sometimes do OK!

THE LIST POSTED ON THE WEEKEND OF APRIL 21 AND 22 ON THE AMAA WEB SITE HAD SOME SIGNIFICANT ERRORS WHICH WERE CAUGHT BASED ON SOMEOF OUR QUESTIONS - THE LIST IN ERROR HAS BEEN OMITTED - THE CORRECTED LIST HAS BEEN POSTED SEPARATELY....

 

[DL]

THIS IS THE PHA FREE LIST COPIED FROM THE AMAA WEB SITE
FREE -NON CARRIERS - shown in navy! http://www.maine-anjou.org/ga/Identified-PHA-FREE.html

Identified PHA Free Cattle in the Maine-Anjou database


Animals listed below have been identified as PHA free either (i) through the AMAA Genetic Abnormality Protocol, (ii) by their owners, who have submitted names of the animals to the AMAA, or (iii) through the work of Dr. Jon Beever, Associate Professor, Molecular Genetics, University of Illinois, who has developed a test to identify the gene markers for PHA:

SEE THE UPDATED LIST POSTED UNDER A DIFFERENT HEADING

 

[Telos]

DL-  Is Covino III a carrier? I thought he tested clean?

 

[Telos]

Sorry did not read your previous post! Think there was a bull named Covino 3 (different then Covino III), but not sure. Will look it up on the AMAA site.

I agree... Interesting group of females. Some appear not fitting the more common PHA genetics.

There is probably more genetic lines which haven't been discovered.

 

[red]

Duh- need to refresh the page for the new list to come up. Too much sun today!
I'm really stumped over some of the cows on the list! Especially Black Ruby.

Red

 

[DL]

Sorry did not read your previous post! Think there was a bull named Covino 3 (different then Covino III), but not sure. Will look it up on the AMAA site.

I agree... Interesting group of females. Some appear not fitting the more common PHA genetics.

There is probably more genetic lines which haven't been discovered.

Telos - this has been as "issue" - I can't find Covino 3 on the AMAA web site but he is listed as a carrier on the sek web site - the powers that be are investigating it but the real original big deal fullblood COVINO III is PHAF according to our gene guru..

 

[Telos]

I was surprised to see Word Miss Artistry and Green Valley Darci on the carrier list . They both go back to the same cow on the bottom side of their pedigree.

 

[Telos]

Two other females which are interesting are VL Miss Pollyann and TBSC Miss Denver. Both of these girls are direct Polleroid daughters. This is shaping up to be another
Suspense-Mystery-Thriller. Another "Who Done It" mystery to solve!

 

[red]

Ok, where is 303622 or a foreplay daughter getting it from? Her MGS is Pistol Pete & the dam is supposed to be Limmi/Angus. Unless that's wrong & something else is in the bloodline's of the dam. AGH!!!!

Red

 

[Telos]

Red, with this new list of cows, Dr. B and Barrel Racer might have their work cut out for themselves. Wonder if they tested Pistol Pete in regards to the cow you mentioned?

 

[Telos]

O.K....  XXC, the masterful pedigree guru e-mailed me the other day and made a really good point... Just because Sundowner 84E tested negative doesn't mean the other full brothers are clean. We may have eliminated that great looking Cette-La cow prematurely. PTR Epinal 81E and 83E still need to be considered as potential carriers. XXC also suggested Turquino might be a culprit. I think Turquino should be high on the suspect list again. He's part of the maternal side of Cette-La's pedigree. He shows up consistently on many PHAC pedigrees along with Univers 15.

I remember about a year ago, when DL was motivating the troops and having us dig into these pedigrees, Cette-La was high on the suspect list. Stinger goes back to this cow along with Draft Pick (Cette-La is on his paternal side which is clean though). So we new we had a common ancestor. Epinal was tested clean, but Cette-La was still in question. Eventually the news that Sundowner 84E came back as being clean. This news may have given us ( at least myself) a false sense that Cette-La was perhaps clean of PHA. 

I personally gave up on considering Cette-La when Sundowner 84E came back negative and Paramount tested as being a carrier. Could not trace any common ancestors between Paramount or Cette-LA from their pedigree. Another peace of news came back that Nor Tex General was clean which had the Cette-La cow in his pedigree, also.

With more new and different pedigrees coming in now, I feel we can keep Univers 15, Turquino or some of those fullblood French cows without an extended pedigree either on  the suspect list or figure out their clean. A big problem though is Univers 15 and Turquino shows up many times together in alot of the PHA pedigrees, but not always.The more pedigrees means more pieces to this puzzle.

 

[xxcc]

Precisely!  I mentioned to Telos that maybe 84E being clean gave us a feel good when really he was clean in the same way Intense Plus was...clean to a dirty flushmate.  This is quite the CSI and enough to drive any investigator batty...but I guess that's what it's like when one doesn't have all the clues at hand.  Maybe what bothers me the most is knowing that the French Association and breeders have all the pedigrees and maybe ampules that we need to help come to a conclusion.

What I do know is that with our latest insight that 224X(among others) is a reported to be a carrier(since two progeny are carriers and their sires are not) point the fingers at two animals, Bar UJ Allen and Midas.  It seems that many have assumed that "the King of Blacks" is assumed to be clean...I guess there's only one way to find out.

I too think we need to look at semen available on bulls tracing to Turquino and Univers.  If any of you out there come across old semen, call first to see if the sire has in fact NOT been tested.  Obviously, some animals that have been tested are not on the PHA C/F list.  For one, these cows...which aren't a real big deal, but sort of, should be on the PHAF list Miss Big Sky 701G, Miss Big Sky 718G and MROA Miss Morris 220M.