Pharo Philosophies

[Joe Boy]

Pharo Philosophies... . Sex is NOT Work for a Bull
There is nothing a bull would rather do than breed cows. The reason seedstock producers and veterinarians caution against “overworking” a bull is because most bulls are developed on a hot feedlot ration. Consequently, they lose condition during the breeding season. Many also suffer from lameness. When a bull is losing condition and limping around it becomes very difficult for him to get very many cows settled. Sex is NOT the problem. The problem is in the way the bulls have been developed.
Pharo Cattle Company specializes in low-input, grass-based genetics. We sell 700 to 800 Angus and Red Angus bulls every year – and we develop them without grain. Because of the way our bulls have been bred and developed, they are able to breed more cows for more years than bulls coming out of other programs. Our recommended cow to bull ratio is double what most seedstock producers recommend. Sex is NOT work for our bulls!
Kit Pharo
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Pharo Cattle Co.
Cheyenne Wells, CO
Phone: 1.800.311.0995
Email: [email protected]
Website: www.PharoCattle.com

 

[knabe]

so the 2500-4000 you save for 1/2 as many bulls is offset by how much at the sale barn because the calves are smaller?

haven't ever seen any real sale barn numbers on pharo cattle compared to others in any large numbers.

can't one just have a breeding pasture be smaller?

 

[Aussie]

Some very interesting reading on your web site. It sounds like you have adapted your practices and cattle type to your very hard environment.  (thumbsup)

 

[kfacres]

I have been around some Pharo 5 star daughters... and even own one myself.. She's anything but a midget dink.. I'd say she's close to a 6 frame, and prob one of my biggest/ height wise Angus cows.  She's got plenty of power, and cow look to oher though..

I can't say that her first calf was much, and neither was her milking ability. 

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

I'm going to break silence for this one. Kit is a promoter and promotes and justifies whatever he is selling at the time. To assume that his "type" of cattle are what the entire world needs is as foolish as me assuming that my "type" of cattle are what the world needs. I have no doubt that he is making a good living raising his type of cattle in his enviroment but there is a huge enviromental differnce from his pasture gate to mine. I would be out of business using some of his practices in short order as I'm sure he would if he used mine. I will agree that way too many young bulls are stuffed way to hard and that will haunt them down the road, but here is the "rest of the story". If you continually sell that type of bulls to your customers, you will run out of customers and be out of business in short order. Long stoty short - your customers will cull you out of the herd. After 30+ years in the cattle business I've seen alot of them come and go, most were promoting something that in the real world wasn't feasable or doable. Keep your cattle suited to your customer base and keep them "real" and you stand a much better chance of surviving past the 7 year breeder curse that is the norm of today. RW

 

[Joe Boy]

I found  this and passed it on but personally do not practice it.  I have seen bulls cut short by being pushed too hard while young and dumped out on a west Texas ranch at 18 months without teeth.  I do not push the bulls hard I sell but feed them a great deal more than grass and hay.

 

[JSchroeder]

A few status-quo, self-proclaimed experts think they can watch a 15 to 20 second video clip of our bulls and tell everyone else (at least those who will listen) what is wrong with our bulls.   Because of the year, our bulls were 50 to 100 pounds lighter than they were last year.   Therefore, a few of these so-called experts are saying things like, “The structure was subject to criticism,” and “What I saw was, IN MY OPINION, some of the worst LOOKING bulls, from a phenotype standpoint, that I have seen in many years!”   Folks, these are the same genetics we sold last year, and the year before.   Phenotype and structure may be visually affected by nutrition (or lack thereof) – but they are NOT genetically changed.   These bulls will do nothing but improve with age!   I guarantee it!

-Kit Pharo

A difference in the conditions from one year to the next caused a 50-100lb drop in his bulls and his bulls are smaller than average to begin with.

Think about that for a second.

Mr. "Our Bulls Won't Melt"'s bulls weren't as structurally correct and didn't look as good because of a difference in pasture from one year to the next.

He's a promoter who uses common marketing strategies to create a self sustaining us vs them mentality that allows him to deflect the criticism of himself that he spends all day levying against others.

 

[knabe]

pharo for president

 

[aj]

O.K,O.K,O.K., I got to get in on this one.  This is a darn good debate subject if nothing else. Very few registered breeders cull as hard as commercial people. They always want to give Lucys 4-h heifer one more chance to raise a calf. If a cow is a hard keeper and won't survive on forage what do most "purebred" people do....they start supplementing cows. They buy protein and they grain and they creep feed. And they give their special cow 5 chances to breed back. In my opinion there is something to say for culling hard. If you buy a 5,000 $ heifer and she doesn't breed back she is always kept and manipulated to try and breed. I think the worst thing you can do is buy a 5,000$ female to start a herd. If you start with 5 1,000$ females is better. Then cull. Push the gain envelope if you want to but make sure the female is common sense. Make sure she at least fits some kind of forage scenario.Make the cow fit the enviroment instead of always trying to change the enviroment. I am not sure the purebred people have ever fine tuned the deal. They went from belt buckle high cattle to frame 9's. The commercial guy just shakes his head as the National champion type swings by him one way and back by the other way. Dad has one pasture where Kits forage tested bulls ran on Cody's. I will bet you that 70% of todays breeds cattle would have flunked the test. It is survior type tests. The bloodlines that have been babied for 5 generations will be identified. That is certain. I can see for making a case for starting all over again and check for cows that can fit an enviroment then push on yearling epds. Find the level inwhich cattle start flushing out then quit. I don't have a clue what kind of enviroment Iowa has. But dang its nice to see a seedstock prodcer that USES SELECTION PRESSURE for a change. Supplement is really getting high. Mineral is getting high. I feel the people that are maxing out yearling epds in breeds are really going doown the wrong path. Cheyenne Wells is a tough country to survive in. It rains 3 times a year two of these events is a thunderhead hailstorm from hell. I really think cow size will swing back around as some frame creep has occured. Its worth looking at this stuff and consider some the natural selection proccesses. There are some crazy people from that area.Posse comatotus used to be big down there. Its the enviroment that scatters their chickens.They are not normal like I am. Just kidding. ;D

 

[JSchroeder]

Id really like to know who these purebred operations you pretend to know so much about are because they sure don't operate like the big purebred operations down here.

 

[aj]

OK Jeff, I stand corrected. I am wrong.

 

[JSchroeder]

No seriously, who are they?

 

[knabe]

I can see for making a case for starting all over again and check for cows that can fit an enviroment then push on yearling epds. Find the level inwhich cattle start flushing out then quit.

i don't get it.  if the cows fit, how can there be more room.  

the cows are telling you there isn't more room and you are going to ignore them?  

seems like every philosophy always tries to get back producing outside the box.  

it appears the only difference between philosophies is the time it takes to add to what the environment is saying is already enough.

 

[knabe]

No seriously, who are they?

sounds like another number of calves registered type debate.

 

[yuppiecowboy]

I am always puzzled how the name Pharo can incite people the way it does. Its not a religion or a political party, so why are people outspokenly either touting the merits of the Pharo program or vilifying it as if what they do is a personal affront to their existence?

Many of the things I understand they emphasize I agree with. Moderate, easy fleshing, functional balanced cows doesn't strike me as much to argue with. I also have been very pleased with my experience of calving later in the spring, etc.

What does turn me off is that judging by the bull sales I have caught parts of, Kit has done a tremendous job of marketing his product and has a strong following of people who like his genetics. So why Unilaterally declare everyone else who has cattle that are not like his to be dead wrong?

I don't care if they were raised on rocks and sunshine, I have a hard time accepting that a bull that weans off under 400lbs is in the best interests of my program. I also have a hard time viewing such a bull that brings north of 5k as "low input"

Pharo doesn't have a trademark on the philosophies they tout, there are alot of programs that tend to be geared that way. The obvious one is Ohlde.

Seems to me that if you believe Kit Pharo has the answers to make you money, use his stock. If you dont think they do, don't.

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

Due to the nature of my business I get to see alot of cow country all acrossed the U.S. and parts of Canada. I am very familiar with the Cheyanne Wells area and it is tough country. However I also know of several very successful cattlemen that don't subscribe to Kits propaganda that are in the same enviroment as he is, some of them pretty close to him (There is a very good Mexican place to eat at between Russel Springs, KS. and Cheyanne Wells by the way). Also due to the nature of my business I get to see alot of Red Angus cattle sell. Here is what I am seeing since it has become politically correct to moderate the Red angus breed (Keep in mind that we were never in the race to make them too tall to see over in the 80's). At a recent very well established midwest sale the females sold like hot cakes, however the bulls were a different story. The bigger, stouter, growthier bulls sold well, the 4 to 5 frame score bulls had to be very exceptional to get a bid on. I spoke with 2 commercial "buyers" that came to the sale specifically to buy Red Angus bulls, both were going home with empty trailers. When I questioned them they both stated basically the same reason -" these little bulls cost us money when we sell the calves over the scales in the fall." I hope that some of the breeders got a wake up call, IMHO there is no need of a frame score 3 to 4 Red Angus bull in the midwest, I am beginning to question the frame score 5's. Most commercial producers still sell their calves by the pound, it is our job as breeders to produce what our market is looking for. RW

 

[knabe]

it is our job as breeders to produce what our market is looking for. RW

or create a market with demand instead of just supply.

 

[Mark H]

The problem with Kit Pharo is that he frequently does not think through what he writes or says.  An example?  He was advocating going up to the Aleutian Islands to get some feral cattle on some of the islands.  He was spreading the idea that these were an ideal source of breeding stock for a low input operation since they were raised in a natural environment.  They are small framed and raised in an all grass environment alright but they are wild animals and behave like them. Many people have tried to run ranches on these islands but fail due to the transportation problems, the fact the cattle aren't designed to productive,  and they are hard to handle. The last point can't be over emphasized.  The handling facilities are like those for bison and the bulls did put a couple cowboys in the hospital.  If Kit wants these cattle he can go get them for free; all he has to do is gather and ship them off the island-no mean feat.

 

[aj]

He is one crazy bastard. He probably believes that Noah's occured in Eastern Colorado.

 

[shortyjock89]

I just have a couple questions about why some folks don't like moderate cattle for selling "by the pound".  Now, I will say that I raise cattle to show, I won't hide that fact. But every year, my more moderate, stouter, easier fleshing cows raise calves just as big as my dad's bigger framed, "higher performing" cows do.  I am pretty certain that's just because my cow are just a little quicker maturing in their type.  Is there a problem with having a quicker maturing type animal?  I don't have problems with mine, they just grow fast for about a year and then really taper off. Wouldn't this be more ideal for a commercial cattleman?  I honestly don't know the answer, I'm just curious.  My cows get fed (some) and don't have to go across 3500 acre pastures, but I DO cull fairly hard for fleshing ability and fertility.  Our calves this year weaned off the heaviest they ever have, and are out of a 5 frame bull.  Maybe this bull is just way better haha!