Potential genetic defect in Shorthorn cattle

[knabe]

i think aj should start his own registry and shows so his cattle can win 100% of the time.


a guaranteed heads he wins tails you lose scenario that he can excel in.


his cattle are defective in their own way since none are ever transferred.

 

[Anst1579]

The Galloway breed, without the modern DNA tools of today, made a decision years ago to eliminate every known carrier and their progeny from their herd book. A very aggressive, take all the pain, upfront decision designed to eradicate these defective genes. It seems to me they took action using the limited technology available to them back then.

The Shorthorn breed has the advantage of technology not available years ago but has made the decision not to eradicate these defective genes because they decided that the show ring aspect of their industry takes precedence.

If shorthorn breeders are concerned about seeing their breed constantly associated with the topic of defective genes then the solution seems clear. Come up with a strategy to address it. The technology exists today to do so in a much less radical way than that implemented by Galloways.
Shorthorns are an outstanding breed with a very proud history and it's only my opinion but I think the breed deserves better than this.

 

[librarian]

Are you suggesting AJ that a separate registry should be created for all carriers? And a show of their very own also? Interesting concept but not sure if it is realistic?
I don't how many carriers win or don't win in the show ring but the apparent passion for preserving these genetic defect genes would indicate one of two things. One, there is at least a belief that these genes provide a very real competitive advantage or two, breeders are looking for ways to explain or justify the propagation of these genes because their associations have no plan to manage the problem.

Or there is a conspiracy to start a crazy rumor that ASA is going to refuse registration to clean progeny of carrier animals once the inevitable happens and carriers can no longer be registered.
This might inflate the value of carrier semen and embryos in the short term, while they can still be registered?
Or
It might deflate the value by convincing investors  that those bloodlines are going to crash.
Or some other market manipulation I can't imagine.
...aj is ahead of the curve, his THC registry will be the only TH venue and he can charge outrageous registration fees... Everything would have to run thru one specified lab for TH verification. Clean animals could be edited genetically and defects spliced in... maybe he and knabe are the ringleaders..

 

[Anst1579]

I think it would be an overreaction for the ASA to deny registrations of carrier animals. Breeders should be allowed to propagate them, register them, show them and sell them. The one exception would be bulls. I would make it mandatory for all bulls to be tested prior to registration and if they are carriers then no progeny would be eligible for registration. None. Not even the non-carrier progeny. Why?? Because if the line is drawn this way breeders will have zero market opportunities to sell semen from carrier sires and zero market to sell carrier sires as walking bulls to anyone except commercial producers who have no interest in registering or recording progeny.
The above long term approach is a hell of a lot less dramatic than the instant Galloway solution.

 

[knabe]

I think individuals should be allowed to arbitrarily impose rules on everyone else.

 

[librarian]

Because if people are allowed to make their own decisions life is so unpredictable for everyone else. Limiting the choices of the majority will certainly eliminate the capacity of a minority to make poor decisions.

 

[librarian]

I can't recall anst mentioning what his breeding program is. Anst, please explain your breeding goals.

 

[knabe]

Because if people are allowed to make their own decisions life is so unpredictable for everyone else. Limiting the choices of the majority will certainly eliminate the capacity of a minority to make poor decisions.

little or nothing protects the minority from poor decisions of the majority.


ironically, this is why people just do things on their own, and again, the government is there to help make that as difficult as possible.


people just can not be trusted with freedom.

 

[Anst1579]

Librarian, my understanding is that this forum does not require the participants to be pre-qualified. It's open to all. Regardless, I will respond.
Breeding goals? To briefly summarize, my goal is to engage only in those activities that contribute value to my breed, my customers and my fellow breeders. And, to leave the breed no worse off than when I made the decision to become a seed stock producer.
We all have a beginning and an ending in this industry. No one breeder is bigger than their association. None of us will outlive it.
My goals do not include:
Running a breeding program designed to create that "one great show calf" every year. To me, the show ring is a tool to promote your product and your breed. It's also a fantastic activity for young people and families. But it isn't the focal point.

 

[librarian]

Well, I guess if I had recently decided to be a seed stock producer for some breed and wanted to add value to my stock, my customers stock and my cronies stock, I might attempt to go on a public forum with a wide show ring audience and portray a rival breed, Shorthorn for instance, as a
Genetic minefield with
Johnes challenges
Growing numbers of Genetic Defects and
Incompetent Leadership

Or I might try to set myself up to fill the void left by destabilizing the established Shorthorn breeders with a defect free Shorthorn Plus or Durham Red derivative.
That pretty much sums up by ideas on this topic. I'm going to stand aside now. Thanks for giving some insight as to what level of credibility you bring to the forum. Good Luck with your business.

 

[Anst1579]

Librarian, there are no rival beef breeds. The real competition is pork and chicken, not each other.
I appreciate your wish for good luck but I am sure we both agree that good management and good decision making are the key ingredients for success.

 

[RyanChandler]

Librarian, there are no rival beef breeds.

(lol)

 

[caledon101]

XBAR.....do you believe that the Shorthorn breed is competitive re: steer calves and breeding bulls to the commercial industry? Do you believe it stands up well? Is the breed positioned to compete effectively with Charolais, Simmental and others?

 

[oakview]

I will take the liberty of answering the previous questions.  Check out the Waukaru data and MARC research.  Shorthorns can stand up to any challenge.  I don't know of too many breeders of any breed that have gone to the lengths the Jordans have to verify their product.  They have met or surpassed standards set by most anybody. 

 

[caledon101]

The Waukaru program is exceptional. There probably isn't a more documented herd in the breed. They don't seem to be show ring focused either. They have identified and developed other markets of more importance to them.
But I have to say, in Ontario, Shorthorn stockers are discounted; that has always been our experience despite sending some very good ones to town. And selling Shorthorn bulls is definitely not a revenue stream you would want to count on either. Not in this part of the world anyway.

 

[shortyjock89]

What about bottom line? The Waukaru herd has done a great job documenting things, but their cows can't do the work I need from them anymore. Theyve created a product for a market that, at the moment, is even more niche than the one many of the breeders that have been so vilified by some on here, serve.

 

[Anst1579]

I have heard it said that the role of the purebred breeder is to provide bulls to the commercial man. And I've also been told that few purebred breeding operations can be honestly profitable unless they have a market to sell a good percentage of their bulls. If 50 percent of your annual calf crop are males then I suppose it makes some sense?
I am sure there are real exceptions to this. There are breeders who can off load all of the extra costs of purebred production onto the female half of their annual calf crop and still maintain profitability.
Not sure I share your view of Walkaru as a niche operation because they have fostered a more traditional role and relationship with the commercial sector?
Regardless, I commend them on their dedication to the market they have chosen to pursue.

 

[aj]

There was some discussion that a double dirty steer may have an advantage in the show ring. In other words a th carrier and a pha carrier. In the shorthorn deal would......or could it be that a triple carrier steer calf would be an even more advantage.......DS carrier also. If you could raise steers that were carriers of three defects......would that be an advantage at all......I assume it wouldn't hurt as far as a club calf phenotype is concerned.

 

[shortyjock89]

DS is not something that's super clear yet, as far as advantageous phenotype goes. Shorthorn steer guys have mostly gone away from the Double Vision type to the JPJ type. Is Starburst a DS carrier?

 

[beebe]

What about bottom line? The Waukaru herd has done a great job documenting things, but their cows can't do the work I need from them anymore. Theyve created a product for a market that, at the moment, is even more niche than the one many of the breeders that have been so vilified by some on here, serve.

Can you elaborate on that.  I would like to understand what you are saying better.