Potential genetic defect in Shorthorn cattle

[knabe]

You have never been envolved with production agriculture. how do you know?

you constantly try to destroy anyone that comes out against propagating lethal genetic defects. sort of like you with anyone who uses defects. you apparently can't see your hypocrisy.

You are a crusader for genetic defects….no i'm not. but you are a crusader against those that choose to use them.

.and I don't begin to understand that point of view. yet you demonize it over and over. i don't understand it either, but i choose to let people choose. you do nothing but advocate for no choice. i don't expect you to see the difference any more.

You keep this thread alive. no, you do, just stop demonizing people.

You have taken the opposition of freedom of speech to a new level. i like free speech, apparently you don't.

You are a bitter little man 'Im not bitter at all, you are with your consistent demonizing of those who use defects.

 

[aj]

So what are the guidelines that must be met in order for you to allow someone to post on here? Do you want me to not post my opinion untill you approve of the script or of the commentor?

 

[knabe]

So what are the guidelines that must be met in order for you to allow someone to post on here? there are none.


Do you want me to not post my opinion untill you approve of the script or of the commentor? no.

 

[librarian]

Well, it is a funny cartoon

 

[BroncoFan]

This used to be a very informative thread on the DS genetic defect.

 

[knabe]

it still is.  all the posts are there.


like any topic, they run out of new information.


the test works, people use it.


new defects will be found, new tests will be made.


since more defects will be found, the days of badmouthing people for the sake of what seemed like the end of the world is no longer an issue.


the fortunate truth is tests for the defects will be made and used.


genomics is still in it's infancy and we have no idea what is in any of these animals and it's a shame to narrow the gene pool and throw away genetics and turn the cattle industry into an animal like the cheetah with a narrow genetic base and tenuous diversity that threatens it's existence.


but of course, it's more important to approach the subject from another angle.

 

[aj]

Thats all very special. And during this grand experiment the beef industry will steer just as far from the Shorthorn breed as possible.

 

[BroncoFan]

I say to each their own. In my never opinion, breed cattle to your liking. Carriers must be a good thing because if they weren't the defect would be eliminated.

Shorthorn cattle can be just as profitable as other breeds. When the consumer thinks beef they think of Angus. It has been that way for a while. Changing people's perspective or embracing hybrid vigor with good angus cattle is a start. Just my 0.02.

Simangus, black herefords, maineangus, etc all have one thing in common.

 

[caledon101]

AJ....I believe you are absolutely correct. 
In my opinion, there are some issues that simply should never be deferred to the individual member/breeder to manage as they each see fit. And, at the top of that list is known fatal defect genes.

There is a time when the breed association rulers need to step forward and lead from the front.
So, I respectfully disagree that "to each his own" is a viable option or solution.

What this thread has demonstrated to me is the countless creative ways breeders can invent to justify the continued propagation of known fatal defect genes.
If these genes had no real or perceived benefit to help win banners and ribbons no one would care if the ASA implemented a policy to eventually eradicate them.
Again, JMO

 

[vc]

When I think of Shorthorns: pretty cattle with large birth weights, slow to nurse, no vigor (large birth weights the cause) slow to finish and hard to sell commercially. This is the stigma that dogs the breed, not TH. Not that any of these are accurate but they are the things I've heard over the years.
I have seen some real easy doing Shorthorn calves but I have also seen some hard doing ones as well.

I think you need to work on changing those perceptions before you try and hang the breeds struggles on Genetic defects. You can easily select a bull that will insure you do not have TH, I bet there are more THF bulls out there then there are calving ease. Even if the bulls is caving ease you have the cows side to deal with. I have a 50 50 shot of getting a THF calf out of a THC and a THF mating, how long will it take to breed calf size out of one?

Hereford is getting in on marketing the breed as a better choice on the grill, has Shorthorn?

I actually like a lot of the Shorthorn cattle I've seen, I just think your trying to pick low growing fruit in your cause, that has a lesser impact on the breed than a lot of other things.

 

[BroncoFan]

When I think of Shorthorns: pretty cattle with large birth weights, slow to nurse, no vigor (large birth weights the cause) slow to finish and hard to sell commercially. This is the stigma that dogs the breed, not TH. Not that any of these are accurate but they are the things I've heard over the years.
I have seen some real easy doing Shorthorn calves but I have also seen some hard doing ones as well.

I think you need to work on changing those perceptions before you try and hang the breeds struggles on Genetic defects. You can easily select a bull that will insure you do not have TH, I bet there are more THF bulls out there then there are calving ease. Even if the is bulls caving ease you have the cows side to deal with. I have a 50 50 shot of getting a THF calf out of a THC and a THF mating, how long will it take to breed calf size out of one?

Hereford is getting in on marketing the breed as a better choice on the grill, has Shorthorn?

I actually like a lot of the Shorthorn cattle I've seen, I just think your trying to pick low growing fruit in your cause, that has a lesser impact on the breed than a lot of other things.

Well said and way better than I tried to put it.

 

[aj]

In fifty years it will be interesting how the University writes up the Shorthorn breed in the genetic books. It will be something like........the Shorthorn breed isolated themselves from the beef industry because they embraced the th,pha, and ds genetic defects as they followed the path of the showring. They have been reclassified as bos th-aurus, bos pha-aurus, bos dsaurus. They will breed to bos taurus and bos indicus cattle and have fertile offspring. It was hoped by many that raising th cattle would be a cure against cancer and global warming......but that did not pan out. The BIF does not recognize the Shorthorn as a legit breed used in todays beef production.

 

[Okotoks]

When I think of Shorthorns: pretty cattle with large birth weights, slow to nurse, no vigor (large birth weights the cause) slow to finish and hard to sell commercially. This is the stigma that dogs the breed, not TH. Not that any of these are accurate but they are the things I've heard over the years.
I have seen some real easy doing Shorthorn calves but I have also seen some hard doing ones as well.

I think you need to work on changing those perceptions before you try and hang the breeds struggles on Genetic defects. You can easily select a bull that will insure you do not have TH, I bet there are more THF bulls out there then there are calving ease. Even if the bulls is caving ease you have the cows side to deal with. I have a 50 50 shot of getting a THF calf out of a THC and a THF mating, how long will it take to breed calf size out of one?

Hereford is getting in on marketing the breed as a better choice on the grill, has Shorthorn?

I actually like a lot of the Shorthorn cattle I've seen, I just think your trying to pick low growing fruit in your cause, that has a lesser impact on the breed than a lot of other things.

I had said I was not going to post on this thread again as it gives the impression that Shorthorns are the only breed with genetic defects which is so far from the truth. I know a big commercial herd that uses Angus, Red Angus, Shorthorn and Simmental in their program and the lethal genetic defects they have dealt with are Angus.(half their herd bull battery is shorthorn and they breed 750 head) Here's a thread that shows Shorthorn can get the premiums for carcass they do it in Great Britain and now Australia. Here's a link to a thread on JBS's Shorthorn program in Australia.
http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/jbs-launches-shorthorn-branded-beef/

 

[knabe]

the Shorthorn breed isolated themselves from the beef industry because they embraced the th,pha, and ds genetic defects as they followed the path of the showring.

here's a song for you ms. anti-shorthorn.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0MK7qz13bU


be a good girl.  jr. high school will be over soon.

 

[librarian]

It was the beef industry that isolated itself from Shorthorns.
Later the beef industry isolated itself from Herefords.
Each of these great breeds was once number one.
Why has the Hereford Angus cross been so much more resilient in today's beef industry than Shorthorn Angus crosses?
Who is out there doing Herford Shorthorn crosses?
We need to think outside the black box.

 

[caledon101]

AJ.....I have to agree. I suspect history will not reflect favourably on how genetic defect issues were handled in this present era. Time will tell.
It's interesting that the shorthorn associations have no problem creating strict rules denying registration around hair coat colour but take a totally different approach on known fatal defect genes.
And I also agree that the breed has serious credibility issues around birth weights and commercial acceptance. The show ring has been a huge success for the breed but a breed should strive to be more than one dimension. Ultimately, these are all food animals; not pets.

 

[oakview]

Who in the Shorthorn breed embraces TH and PHA?  How many bulls were sold in sales this year that were TH and/or PHA carriers?  I can only remember one or two bulls even offered for sale that were THC and only a handful of heifers.  Is this "embracing?"  In nearly every case, the animals in question were offered specifically as show animals and were clearly labeled.  There are so few of them that further discussion is nearly useless.  Again, study the program from the National Show and show me the huge numbers of TH and PHA carriers.  Their numbers will be very small.  Some of you make it appear that every Shorthorn led into a show ring is a genetic defect carrier.  That's simply not true.  The only place you'll see very many TH or PHA carriers is at a steer show.  And they'll all be black.  Make your own list of Shorthorn breeders that you know are actively using TH or PHA positive Shorthorn bulls.  I'll wager it won't be very long.   

 

[aj]

I would like to see a list of the top 10 bulls for semen sales. I'd also be interested in say the number of active pedigrees that go back to say Doublestuff. I wonder if there is any way the pedigree computer could do that. If I remember right......the one year......doublestuff was the no. one bull in registrations. Some data like that would be interesting to show at the big meeting coming up.

 

[oakview]

I would think a more useful search, at least for genetic abnormalities, would be of Improver rather than Double Stuff.  If I'm reading the ASA website correctly, the peak year for number of calves recorded by Double Stuff was 1998 with 772.  There were 8 in 2014 and 1 so far in 2015.  I don't think anybody knew TH from 4H in 1998.  I really don't know of many that might prize Double Stuff in their pedigrees like some of the other valued animals of today.  Is anybody using a son or grandson today?  Anybody have a cow herd made up mostly daughters or granddaughters?   

 

[BroncoFan]

In my never to be humble opinion, the Shorthorn Association could go a long ways if they proved to the industry that color is only skin deep.  Shorthorns are doing well in the show ring but really how many feedlots across the nation are feeding out shorthorn steers.  Anyone have the data?