Question on amount of sedative to give heifer

[bovine and equine]

I've heard of people giving Ace on the tongue to calm show heifers, but my question is how many CCs to you give them. 

 

[OH Breeder]

What ever you decide be cautious. SOme sedatives can work the exact opposite with some cattle. There are herbal supplements that you can feed over a period of time that will have a calming effect on them. Melatonin has been used as a hair aid but also can have a calming effect. I am not sure ACE is legal for shows. Wrong person to ask. I have used herbal sedatives with success. Have to go back and look at my books to see what worked the best.

 

[hangonsloopy]

O boy... get ready for people jumping all over you asking a question like that.

 

[CAB]

2 to 4 mls depending on what size your calf is. Some PPL give it rectally and say it works better and faster administerring that way.

 

[kobo_ranch]

Ok so I'm not into drugs so what is ACE?  curious <cowboy>

 

[Freddy]

The product name is Ace Prominzine ,was mostly a horse drug but got to be used by cattle also .  Ace works on the physical  part of the animal or the muscles an can cause the animal to kinda fall apart like saggy in top line or if you go to sales that use it for bulls the penis might be showing ...Dosage is really important ,there are  some other products used also .....

 

[CAB]

To use Acepromazine in bovine legally you need a vet's prescript. Dosage for equire is 2 mg up to 4 mg/100 lbs of body weight. This was for product containing 10mg/ ml.

 

[DL]

To use Acepromazine in bovine legally you need a vet's prescript. Dosage for equire is 2 mg up to 4 mg/100 lbs of body weight. This was for product containing 10mg/ ml.

CAB you are mistaken - Acepromazine is not approved for use in cattle. As such to use it legally for cattle one must follow the ELDU (extra label drug use) and AMDUCA rules. Under those rules there is no way to legally use it to calm show calves - prescription or not ("ELDU for therapeutic purposes only (animal's health is suffering or threatened). Not drugs for production use.")

http://www.avma.org/reference/amduca/amduca1.asp

actually Freddy it is a phenothiazine derivative that works directly on the brain stem and connections to the cerebral cortex--> decreased spontaneous motor activity - it also acts centrally and peripherally to block catecholamine effects

yes I have heard all the excuses and reasons why people think they can/should use ace but that neither makes it right or legal or ethical

yes I know it is used for that purpose but that neither makes it right or legal or ethical

 

[hangonsloopy]

To use Acepromazine in bovine legally you need a vet's prescript. Dosage for equire is 2 mg up to 4 mg/100 lbs of body weight. This was for product containing 10mg/ ml.

CAB you are mistaken - Acepromazine is not approved for use in cattle. As such to use it legally for cattle one must follow the ELDU (extra label drug use) and AMDUCA rules. Under those rules there is no way to legally use it to calm show calves - prescription or not ("ELDU for therapeutic purposes only (animal's health is suffering or threatened). Not drugs for production use.")

http://www.avma.org/reference/amduca/amduca1.asp[

actually Freddy it is a phenothiazine derivative that works directly on the brain stem and connections to the cerebral cortex--> decreased spontaneous motor activity - it also acts centrally and peripherally to block catecholamine effects

yes I have heard all the excuses and reasons why people think they can/should use ace but that neither makes it right or legal or ethical

yes I know it is used for that purpose but that neither makes it right or legal or ethical

And there it is.  Took longer than I thought it would though.

 

[knabe]

ace's therapeutic use is for a common ailment called laziness. 

it's dose should increase over time as it's effect is addictive and the only way to get off it is an intervention.

some people will claim some animals just won't calm down.  personally, i have only seen one that wouldn't and i've been around about 750-800 halter broke calves that went through a sale or shown.

personally i think it's a crutch.  yeah, i've been around people who have used it, and it's ridiculous.

no one in their right mind should ever take a calf to their first show and expect them to be calm.  of course people will say, well the calf is still like that after the tenth show.  in my experience, they just aren't allowed enough time or attention.  personally i would like to give ace to people, except not through a carcass, and especially after they are told they shouldn't use it and go ahead anyway.

 

[farmin female]

Sorry "bovine and equine", but I have to chime in on this one.  I am in the group that will tell you to put this thought out of your head and work more with the kids and the calves.  What you are talking about is called "dopeing" - just like major league ball players.  Don't like it with them, don't like it in the show ring.  If you want to compromise your ethics and values use the ace.  If you want to show cattle and it mean something, stay clean.  Besides, today ace, tomorrow pumping. 

 

[knabe]

hmmm.  maybe we should give bullies ace?

 

[Bulldaddy]

Better to start with a gentle heifer.  Even then much work needs to be done at home, leading, brushing, clipping as well as showing at lots of those small practice shows while the heifer is young.  This is what it shoul be about-- not taking short cuts with drugs.

 

[MCC]

You might try calf calm first. If you use ace you need to try it at at home first. I've seen 1200 pound steers fall asleep with 1/2 cc and 500 pound calves with 10 cc not slow down a step.

 

[OLD WORLD SHORTIE]

(lol) really, really you asked about that here.

 

[showsteerdlux]

Sorry "bovine and equine", but I have to chime in on this one.  I am in the group that will tell you to put this thought out of your head and work more with the kids and the calves.  What you are talking about is called "dopeing" - just like major league ball players.  Don't like it with them, don't like it in the show ring.  If you want to compromise your ethics and values use the ace.  If you want to show cattle and it mean something, stay clean.  Besides, today ace, tomorrow pumping. 

said,
How the heck can you put giving ace and pumping in a relative category? Not even close to the same.

I personally don't see the problem with either.
As far as laziness goes, you can work and work with calves for for a year, and some will still have that edge to them. I would rather take care of the edge than chance someone getting hurt. Now that being said, I don't use ace, but i sure don't see a problem with it.

 

[knabe]

if someone has a problem buying a carcass with ace in it, should they get a guarantee or a test it's not there?

personally, i would be hesitant to buy anything at a fair terminal auction without testing.

 

[R1Livestock]

Since he asked a question and didn't ask for moral judgments, maybe people could help him and not judge?  There's only one person who really judges us when it matters anyway. 

For the answer, you can have good luck using it nasally.  It works quickly and seems to take a smaller dose.  Regardless, practice with it at home.  I've seen a steer at the county fair who tried to lay down every chance he got in the show ring.  Don't listen to other people, there is zero chance I would let my 10 year old daughter take a steer in the ring for the first time that I thought could hurt her.  There's a difference between short cuts and common sense.  It's never worth someone getting hurt.

 

[knabe]

ace is wrong. 

if wrong is wrong, but we can't make moral judgements, i say get an aluminum baseball bat and hit every competitors animal over the head if someone asks if it's ok.

believe me, telling them NOT TO USE ace is helping them.  after ace, what is it ace of base?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjJwqDa1QVI&feature=related

if there's only one judge, what would that judge say?  your logic is contradictory.

wanting another baby, perhaps the only judge would rule against that too.

 

[aj]

Seems like the club calf industry is always working against itself. Aren't all the popular bloodlines kinda goofy. Thus evrybody has to dope?