Question on Sooner-Maine Anjou bull

[knabe]

gvc suh

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=340944

there are a few mergers by gcc slc merger who is out of a double bred witch doctor cow with some 734 in her.

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=319031

i pretty much think that any new changer maine bull that's going to come along will be a different type maine.  it's going to need shorter gestation length, predictable calving, defect free while still retaining some thickness volume and bone maine's are known for.  it will probably lose some head breed character and have to be homo polled, homo black, homo solid, as if all the people mentioned so far don't already know that.  at least hartman seems to be trying something different with wisdom and having a fullblood up so close though gvc and nage's have my favorite pedigrees.

of the one's mentioned including wisdom, wisdom's look the most interesting based on pictures and extremely limited on the hoof viewing.

 

[SEA]

I agree with both Jill and Knabe. Modern EPD's aren't worth a nickel. Early EPD's seemed more accurate. Some current breeders are trying to change this and document as to how their cattle really perform.
[Telos/quote]

I am not a Maine Anjou breeder nor have I ever used allot of Maine Anjou genetics (Stout, Shakedown, Draftpick, Wonder, Strictly Business, Ali, Tyson).  Most offspring of these bulls are now gone from my herd.  I have culled extremely hard and brought in new genetics, so that most of my base cows are Angus and Simm x Angus cows.  My goal is to raise show calves from these cows, plus are structurally functional and have some growth to them.  To do it right, is a big order.

I am considering breeding some of my F1, SM x AN cows to Maine Anjou bulls.  I appreciate of all the positive genetic traits that many of the current Maine Anjou cattle contain.  Good shoulder and clean front end, big top, square hip, good muscle expression carried down their rear quarter, big bone and foot, and of course...manageable long straight hair.  As most of you all know, these phenotype attributes are awesome when raising show cattle.  However, when I am looking for a female sire there are other genetic "cow"/maternal qualities that I hold as high or of higher value.  These same maternal qualities is what I have not been able to find in a Maine Anjou sire IMHO.  Please do not take this as a slam or knock on the Maine Anjou Breed.

I need a bull a Maine Anjou that is PHAF, "soft made", deep ribbed, big middled, with some set in his rear leg (not to straight), from a good mothering cow family with some real milk behind him (not EPD's), good uddered, and small teated cows.  Ones that have vigor in their calves when born, and go on to nurse and grow.

Is there such a Maine Anjou bull out there?  Maybe I am looking for a half blood Maine Anjou x Angus F1 bull?  Maybe a Strictly Business x Angus, or Hard Drive x Angus, F1 sire?  However, I don't know if he is out there, or where to locate him.

Can anyone with Maine Anjou experience help me out?

Thanks in advance!!

 

[SEA]

I pretty much think that any new changer maine bull that's going to come along will be a different type maine.  it's going to need shorter gestation length, predictable calving, defect free while still retaining some thickness volume and bone maine's are known for.  it will probably lose some head breed character and have to be homo polled, homo black, homo solid, as if all the people mentioned so far don't already know that.  at least hartman seems to be trying something different with wisdom and having a fullblood up so close though gvc and nage's have my favorite pedigrees.  Of the one's mentioned including wisdom, wisdom's look the most interesting based on pictures and extremely limited on the hoof viewing.
[Knabe/quote]

Thank you Knabe for your Maine Sire Update!  Therefore, GLC SLC Merger 459U is a SLC Sooner 101M son and GVC SUH 01W is another GVC Statesman 4R ET son.

I also agree with your assessment above.
 
What Maine Anjou Sire are you'all, going to try on your Simm/Angus cows this spring to produce replacement females?

 

[gates98]

As a Maine breeder I like to stand up for them as much as possable,  however most of what has been said is true,  maine EPD's are worthless.  I completely ignore them when selecting anything and go by pedigree and experience( mine as well as those I trust in the breed).  There has been very few bulls in the last 10 years that have done anything to help the breed in any way but show cattle IMHO and have really hurt the breed as a whole.  However there are breeders out there that are raising some that do fit into the real world and most of them can be found in the above mentioned bulls breeding,  As well most have solid foundations in fullblood or at least old genetics.  There are good bulls out there that produce nice udders that really milk,  have a long life and BREED, raise a calf that isn't a dink, and can still produce show cattle but most are not the heavily promoted bulls that distributors push.  Look at the pedigrees of the good cattle and go back a few generations and see where the good qualities really are coming from.  Most people try one of the popular bulls get junk and never try another.  When talking to a distributor last year he was determined to sell me semen on a calving ease bull that was there high selling maine the prevuse year that IMHO should have been cut!!  All of the calves I have seen out of him but 2 were horrible.  Most are big at birth and never grow at all.  He was shocked to here this from a maine breeder.  He really thought I was hurting the breed by not using him.

 

[AAOK]

It's often easier to see where you need to go if you look back at where you've been; or haven't been.  FR Magic 179X

 

[Jill]

I will agree with Knabe on Nagel Cattle Company, they have consistently over the years produced a usable quality product and should compliment your simmi/Angus genetics beautifully.  I don't know a lot about Green Valley, I do know they revamped their focus a few years back and really turned their operation in a positive direction. 
I don't mean to misrepresent the breed, I am a diehard Maine breeder and believe in the genetics, I'm just not a believer in the EPD's.

 

[SEA]

Please give me the names of these "Nagel" bulls as well as some of these other bulls mentioned by gates98 that will make functional female cattle, besides FR Magic 179X, who I believe extremely hard to find and expensive to use unless on a flush.  Thanks

 

[knabe]

just had a heifer calf during the 4th quarter out of a magic grandson

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=293175

 

[ZNT]

I need a bull a Maine Anjou that is PHAF, "soft made", deep ribbed, big middled, with some set in his rear leg (not to straight), from a good mothering cow family with some real milk behind him (not EPD's), good uddered, and small teated cows.  Ones that have vigor in their calves when born, and go on to nurse and grow.

Is there such a Maine Anjou bull out there?  

You just described our bull.  Telos and Chambero can back me up on this one.
http://www.zntcattle.com/p/montego-bay.html

 

[Telos]

Montego Bay is also interesting from a genetic standpoint as well being out of a Hardcore cow and sired by Tyson. This makes him slightly linebred to two full sisters which were two great producing cows. One from Core Farm's and the other from Buck Cattle. Maternal Grandmother is also a great producer being one of ZNT's premier donors.

 

[olsun]

I personally don't care for the Sooner bull, but it is not my intent to bad mouth him. I have seen a few really good animals sired by him. At the same time I have seen some very plain ones. I base a lot of my opinion on the fact that his semen has not been available to the general public. For that reason, I feel that the people who did use him, used him on their best cows. Because of that, I can't see a reason for all of the plain ones. Case in point is the Ohlrich bull sale.They had a great set of bulls by the way. 12 Open Bars averaged 4037, 5 Pride And Glorys averaged 5160, one Boomer brought 2700, and 2 Sooners averaged 2100 dollars. If I were selling breeding bulls, that would make it hard for me to use Sooner.JMHO and I hope no one takes offense.

 

[AAOK]

just had a heifer calf during the 4th quarter out of a magic grandson

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=293175

Nice looking Bull on paper.  I noticed the Cow has Smithbilt on both top and bottom.

 

[xxcc]

i pretty much think that any new changer maine bull that's going to come along will be a different type maine.

Does one out of a Viking's Cunia Image daughter count?

 

[SEA]

i pretty much think that any new changer maine bull that's going to come along will be a different type maine.

Does one out of a Viking's Cunia Image daughter count?

TO; xxcc

What's his name?  Or better yet his reg. number.  Or a link to AMAA registration.

<nopics>

Thanks!!

 

[SEA]

I personally don't care for the Sooner bull, but it is not my intent to bad mouth him. I have seen a few really good animals sired by him. At the same time I have seen some very plain ones. I base a lot of my opinion on the fact that his semen has not been available to the general public. For that reason, I feel that the people who did use him, used him on their best cows. Because of that, I can't see a reason for all of the plain ones. Case in point is the Ohlrich bull sale.They had a great set of bulls by the way. 12 Open Bars averaged 4037, 5 Pride And Glorys averaged 5160, one Boomer brought 2700, and 2 Sooners averaged 2100 dollars. If I were selling breeding bulls, that would make it hard for me to use Sooner.JMHO and I hope no one takes offense.

To: Olsum,

Have you seen the HAA Wisdom 505S bull (364619 AMAA #), or any of his calves?

 

[SEA]

just had a heifer calf during the 4th quarter out of a magic grandson

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=293175

Knabe;

Is there a picture of GMBS Pendleton anywhere?

 

[CAB]

just had a heifer calf during the 4th quarter out of a magic grandson

http://maine-anjou.org/pagedisplay.php?id=293175

Knabe;

Is there a picture of GMBS Pendleton anywhere?http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php?topic=4311.45

 

[CAB]

http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php?topic=4311.45


Link to a picture of Pendleton.

 

[doc-sun]

I never saw a calf by Viking Cunia's Image since our 1st maines in 1969 that had enough to it.  I am thinking of flushing the old black pb bull Metric to so some of my blacks.  Might produce something interesting.

 

[Telos]

I never saw a calf by Viking Cunia's Image since our 1st maines in 1969 that had enough to it.  I am thinking of flushing the old black pb bull Metric to so some of my blacks.  Might produce something interesting.

Saw Mark Mueller (DMCC) at Fort Worth Stock Show and he used a little Metric. Said he had a super heifer or cow out of him. He seemed happy with using that bull and I believe he plans on using more. Megaton is possibly his best son and I think there is semen on him as well.