Set of Twins with a PHA calf!

[Titangurl]

Here are pictures of my Millie she is so funny, she was two weeks old yesterday!  The last picture is her in the kitchen sink getting a bath because I didn't realize how much cleanin the momma does because this girl gets dirty easy!  With not that much hair quite yet I'm afraid of her skin getting irritated, so she's been getting a bath once a week.

 

[Titangurl]

Double Vision is PHAF. There has to be another bull in your cow's pedigree that is PHAC.

IDK then she's my only shorthorn, here is her reg number maybe you could tell me?? *x4084224

 

[kane1598]

CAB, im not sure where you are getting your info from but double vision in a PHA carrier.
http://www.bovine-elite.com/PHACarriersFall2006.pdf
See for yourself

 

[DL]

Double Vision is PHAF. There has to be another bull in your cow's pedigree that is PHAC.

You must be hallucinating clean CAB - 4D Double Vision is a DOUBLE CARRIER - he carries the mutation for both TH and PHA

 

[DL]

Double Vision is PHAF. There has to be another bull in your cow's pedigree that is PHAC.

IDK then she's my only shorthorn, here is her reg number maybe you could tell me?? *x4084224

On the top of your cows pedigree you have Double Vision who gets from his sire Double Stuff the mutations for TH (via Deerpark Improver) and PHA (via Stinger). On the bottom of your cows pedigree is Deerpark Improver again  - not sure if the Candy cow has been tested

 

[CAB]

I'm sorry. I was sure in my mind that Double Vision was just THC. I had been using Double Stuff some and was considering switching over to DV b/c I thought that he was @ least PHAF. I stand corrected. I wonder where I thought that I saw that he was only THC? Again, I'm sorry for the bad info. Brent

  Went to see if I could find where I had gotten the idea that he was just THC and I found it on Stepping Stones genetics. He is listed as only TH positive and nothing else, giving me the elusion that he was PHAF.

 

[DL]

AH, the illusion of clean genetics - used ever so successfully by marketers of carrier semen - remember the good old days when Paddy O'Malley had big letters on his picture "TH Free" with no mention of his PHA status (which BTW he is a carrier)....disclosure, full disclosure so people can make their own decisions ....

OTOH at least you know now you weren't hallucinating - just another victim of a marketers ERROR OF OMISSION

 

[CAB]

AH, the illusion of clean genetics - used ever so successfully by marketers of carrier semen - remember the good old days when Paddy O'Malley had big letters on his picture "TH Free" with no mention of his PHA status (which BTW he is a carrier)....disclosure, full disclosure so people can make their own decisions ....

OTOH at least you know now you weren't hallucinating - just another victim of a marketers ERROR OF OMISSION

I thought it was just another old man's brain fart!!! One of many.

 

[Titangurl]

Thanks for info on my cow's pedigree!

 

[C-CROSS]

You are probably not going to believe me, but we got a PHA calf out of a clean cow and dirty bull.. We have had the cow tested 2 times.  with talking to the association this is the second time this has happened.  the mistake we made was not take an ear from the calf.  But I own the cow with another guy and it was in Iowa and he was gone also.  So when his dad called the vet to take it out the side, they did not know.

 

[Show Heifer]

CAB - When I see information omitted, I assume the WORST. If TH or PHA isn't listed, I automatically think CARRIER. If a birth weight isn't listed I think HUGE. If a weaning weight isn't listed, I think SMALL. etc. etc.

C-Cross - Would it be possible to share the pedigree of the cow? I am curious as if there are "free animals" that are honestly throwing dead calves, then I would say there is another mutation floating around (such as with TH - Outcast, and the "reguluar")  Did you have two different labs test?  This really has my interest!

 

[knabe]

if there is a second PHA mutation, i wouldn't be surprised.  mutations will keep happening for many reasons.

 

[DL]

You are probably not going to believe me, but we got a PHA calf out of a clean cow and dirty bull.. We have had the cow tested 2 times.  with talking to the association this is the second time this has happened.  the mistake we made was not take an ear from the calf.  But I own the cow with another guy and it was in Iowa and he was gone also.  So when his dad called the vet to take it out the side, they did not know.

Yes it is certainly hard to believe - who tested the cow? Who drew the blood? Do you know for sure (ie you did it) that the cow was tested 2 times? Do you know for sure the cow was tested once?  Did you contact the lab that did the testing? Were the calves necropsied?  ie we know for sure that they had PHA (PHA is not the only ugly big bloated thing around)? No ear from either calf? It is pretty suspicious that a cow that has had 2 PHA calves is a PHA carrier ......what is the pedigree of the cow?

knabe - the Dexter PHA mutation is different from the Maine

 

[yuppiecowboy]

Why is it hard to believe? The test is faulty for TH, why wouldnt it be for PHA?

 

[Show Heifer]

Could you explain how the TH test is faulty?
I know of a a case, but each were found to be contamination when drawing the samples. (You know that "save a 12 cents" and not use a new syringe thing).
I also know of a case or two where the pedigree was "wrong" and the Outcast mutation wasn't tested for (early on - it is now routinely tested for due to the "mis representations in pedigrees") and it was TH Free only for the common mutation, only to be found a carrier for the Outcast mutation after having a TH calf.
So how is the test faulty?

 

[DL]

Why is it hard to believe? The test is faulty for TH, why wouldnt it be for PHA?

there is no evidence that the test is faulty - have no idea where you got your information but it is incorrect - human error can and does occur very rarely but the DNA doesn't lie

if you are referring to Jazzman he was tested for TH when only the Improver deletion was routinely tested - the Outcast deletion was tested only if the pedigree suggested that there was the possibility of the Outcast deletion - his pedigree did not suggest that the Outcast deletion should be tested. Down the line - when he had sired TH calves - these calves had both the Improver and Outcast deletion (compound heterozygotes) suggesting that Jazzmans pedigree was incorrect - low and behold Jazzman is a carrier for the Outcast mutation - not sure if his parentage was ever determined

BTW CC there is also one report of a PHA calf from a Hereford mating - this calf did not have either the Maine or Dexter mutation - doubt however that your cow is a Hereford

 

[bjkoller]

Wow... thankful for all of you that are so up on this and sharing your knowledge with others!  Learn more every day...
So in reading about the TH PHA carrier status sometimes not being listed.... I notice  in some places Milkman is just listed at TH carrier... there is no mention of PHA???  Some places say that the PHA status is pending???  On Lautner's it says both are pending, which I thought was strange as well???  HELP anyone???? 
Should I just assume he is a carrier of both and always breed my heifer out of him clean?

 

[Show Heifer]

3G, "test pending" to me means one of two things: 1. "This bull wasn't worth $45 a few months ago, so therefore I didn't test him. But now he is the next best thing, I  was caught off guard (maybe I don't cattle as well I think I do)."
or 2. "Lets make them call and ask about the test results. Maybe they will assume clean...."

So, if "test pending" is listed, I again assume they are a carrier for whatever defects are known to that breed, regardless of NH,MA,OS,AM,TH, PHA, etc, etc, etc.

So, unless you test your heifer, and find her to be clean,  I would assume her to be a double carrier, and breed her double defect free!

 

[DL]

Wow... thankful for all of you that are so up on this and sharing your knowledge with others!  Learn more every day...
So in reading about the TH PHA carrier status sometimes not being listed.... I notice  in some places Milkman is just listed at TH carrier... there is no mention of PHA???  Some places say that the PHA status is pending???  On Lautner's it says both are pending, which I thought was strange as well???  HELP anyone???? 
Should I just assume he is a carrier of both and always breed my heifer out of him clean?

Better part of valor is to assume that anything "pending" is a carrier - heck there is a Shorthorn bull whose PHA results have been pending for years!! sometimes results are slow BUT

One would think that any rational person planning to market a Shorthorn, Maine, Chi, clubby etc bull would have the foresight and the 50 bucks to get them tested for both TH and PHA - even if there is nothing in the pedigree to suggest that they are carriers it is a good marketing strategy.  I really love the Shorthorn bulls listed as "TH FREE" with no mention of PHA (despite the various Doubles in their pedigree). And if there is Angus in the pedigree testing for AM and NH is not a bad idea either....

 

[yuppiecowboy]

The TEST involves a human taking a sample, shipping a sample, handling a sample, analyzing the sample, and recording data found. The TEST is faulty.

I am not in the mood to debate semantics over the definition if IS.

I highly doubt Josh gives a hoot where the error occurred when IVY was tested. I know I dont.

If a cow tests clean for PHA, then has a PHA calf, prudent thought is that an error occurred in the TEST to yield false results. It COULD be that the calf wasnt PHA, it really had the newly discovered "inflamed dandruff". Maybe the cow traded places with the tested cow. Who knows. However...

I say again, since the TH test has proven unreliable, why would anybody be surprised by a PHA calf out of a tested clean cow?