Shorthorn weaning weights.

[RyanChandler]

4108 looks like a really nice DRC cow.  I also like this pic of 034 and a maternal sib of his. 034 is one of the better bulls in the breed -ideal EPD profile w/ solid accuracy- and should absolutely be in the sire test.

 

[oakview]

What a surprise!  That cow is certainly not reserve wedge shaped from the bull pictured.

 

[RyanChandler]

Like you said, you just look at cattle differently. 

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I may be mistaken but I believe Lone Ranger was in Michigan. He had a attitude problem if it's the bull that was at Shoup's.

 

[librarian]

I may be mistaken but I believe Lone Ranger was in Michigan. He had a attitude problem if it's the bull that was at Shoup's.

Vaith's are in Yankton...but bulls get around. Was Red Cloud like that? Any Doverish cattle I've been around were sort of neutral - dont bother them and they won't bother you.
Open Range progeny had pretty meager weaning weights on ASA. EVEN I want at least a 500lb weaning weight and I think a Shorthorn cow should do better than that to call herself a Shorthorn.

 

[JTM]

I may be mistaken but I believe Lone Ranger was in Michigan. He had a attitude problem if it's the bull that was at Shoup's.

Vaith's are in Yankton...but bulls get around. Was Red Cloud like that? Any Doverish cattle I've been around were sort of neutral - dont bother them and they won't bother you.
Open Range progeny had pretty meager weaning weights on ASA. EVEN I want at least a 500lb weaning weight and I think a Shorthorn cow should do better than that to call herself a Shorthorn.

I think if you're looking at A&T's weaning weights you need to consider the terrain and the environment they were raised. They are not easy on their cattle at all. That is why I invested so much in them. It is proving well worth it.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I had the wrong bull. It was A@T PowerRanger up in Michigan.

 

[mbigelow]

I have a JG red cloud daughter out of RB ruby 177th sold because of poor weaning weights.  Had a 7026 daughter loved the look and udder on this cow again, poor weaning weights and was sold.  Tried captain obvious great bw poor weaning weights.  I am convinced it is from the red cloud line.  I think these cattle excel at some things just not performance.

 

[librarian]

I think if you're looking at A&T's weaning weights you need to consider the terrain and the environment they were raised. They are not easy on their cattle at all.

Yes, environment and management are key factors, but I tried to be systematic and compare the weaning weights on the same A&T cows that had been bred to Open Range over time and over different matings. With some exceptions, Captain Obvious at 622 lbs being the most obvious, the weaning weights were often low.  Given that these were mostly DRC cows originating from an ultra low input scenario, I'm not understanding why they appear to be struggling to produce decent weaning weights. Compared to DRC cattle in other low input programs, the A&T cattle are lagging. It's worth studying, given their influence.
Moving cows, especially older cows, can set them back...drought can set them back...age can work for or against a cow...I understand that. Just trying to learn- I also thought it might be a Red Cloud thing- but it seems systemic. I don't know anything about A&T and this is not a criticism of their program- just part of the weaning weight discussion.

 

[r.n.reed]

I am going to cite the two articles you posted above Librarian and suggest that possibly those lower weaning weights mean more profit to Aaron's operation.

 

[librarian]

I am going to cite the two articles you posted above Librarian and suggest that possibly those lower weaning weights mean more profit to Aaron's operation.

I was pondering that- wondering how much the extra weaning weight on these ET calves cost.
Progeny records for DRC 4133KC

 

[RyanChandler]

I am going to cite the two articles you posted above Librarian and suggest that possibly those lower weaning weights mean more profit to Aaron's operation.

I was pondering that- wondering how much the extra weaning weight on these ET calves cost.
Progeny records for DRC 4133KC

Those calves were fed quite a bit, no doubt.  With that said, I still doubt any of them came close to weaning half their dam's weight. 

Weaning weight is quite the topic.  So many variables it makes it difficult to even touch on this topic.  I bet I could increase my weaning weights by 50lbs or more just be reducing my stocking rate.  This is one factor that doesn't get the consideration it deserves.  Are the quoted weaning weights at the recommended stocking rate, or are you only running half as many as you could? How do we adjust for this consideration?  In addition to the role stocking rate plays on weaning weights, the next consideration is cow size.  Are these 1100lb cows weaning 500lb calves or are they 1350lb cows? Are they 1100lbs at a bcs 6 or 1350lbs at a bcs 4?  There's just so many factors it makes it nearly impossible to have any realistic comparison or discussion.  I hear this 'low input program' platitude and it just makes my ears ring.  What is a low input program?  Is low input 1500lb cows grazing irrigated legumes so long as they're not given 'grain'?, or is it 1300lb cows grazing 8 months and then standing at a hay feeder 4 months out of the year? or is it 1200lb cows grazing 12 months out of the year and fluctuating 2-3 body condition scores with the forage every year? Are these cows that are weaning 30% of their body weight every year? 40%? 50%? Did they have to be supplemented some high dollar fortified mineral to hit the 50%? Or are the cows calving in April and weaning half their weight come late October on nothing but grass?  There's producers I know who spend more annually on various minerals than I do on all production costs combined! So again, what is low input?  What do you think, rn? Is 50% WW% the magic number? Or is that bar too high?  What percent of her body weight should a 'low input' cow wean?

 

[huntaway]

I am going to cite the two articles you posted above Librarian and suggest that possibly those lower weaning weights mean more profit to Aaron's operation.

I was pondering that- wondering how much the extra weaning weight on these ET calves cost.
Progeny records for DRC 4133KC

Those calves were fed quite a bit, no doubt.  With that said, I still doubt any of them came close to weaning half their dam's weight. 

Weaning weight is quite the topic.  So many variables it makes it difficult to even touch on this topic.  I bet I could increase my weaning weights by 50lbs or more just be reducing my stocking rate.  This is one factor that doesn't get the consideration it deserves.  Are the quoted weaning weights at the recommended stocking rate, or are you only running half as many as you could? How do we adjust for this consideration?  In addition to the role stocking rate plays on weaning weights, the next consideration is cow size.  Are these 1100lb cows weaning 500lb calves or are they 1350lb cows? Are they 1100lbs at a bcs 6 or 1350lbs at a bcs 4?  There's just so many factors it makes it nearly impossible to have any realistic comparison or discussion.  I hear this 'low input program' platitude and it just makes my ears ring.  What is a low input program?  Is low input 1500lb cows grazing irrigated legumes so long as they're not given 'grain'?, or is it 1300lb cows grazing 8 months and then standing at a hay feeder 4 months out of the year? or is it 1200lb cows grazing 12 months out of the year and fluctuating 2-3 body condition scores with the forage every year? Are these cows that are weaning 30% of their body weight every year? 40%? 50%? Did they have to be supplemented some high dollar fortified mineral to hit the 50%? Or are the cows calving in April and weaning half their weight come late October on nothing but grass?  There's producers I know who spend more annually on various minerals than I do on all production costs combined! So again, what is low input?  What do you think, rn? Is 50% WW% the magic number? Or is that bar too high?  What percent of her body weight should a 'low input' cow wean?

Isn't this the basis for the EPD system. Trying to give you a comparison between genetics with environment and management removed.

 

[r.n.reed]

XBAR,you have expanded on the statement I have made on here many times.Data without context is useless.It is like advertising State Fair grand champion Shorthorn bull.Was that the Iowa state fair or the New Jersey state fair.
I do not believe there is a one size fits all CW/WW ratio.50% is the bar I have set for my herd at this time and that may change as I continue to balance my inputs to achieve profitability.
I am curious to know how many '' purebred producers '' even keep track of their average feed cost/cow.The Librarians statement on Nebraska pasture rents was eye opening.400.00/pr. and 7 months of feeding after that.
Huntaway it may be due to our small numbers in the Shorthorn breed but my experience has been that management and environment have too much weight on the epd's

 

[Endless Meadows]

I may be mistaken but I believe Lone Ranger was in Michigan. He had a attitude problem if it's the bull that was at Shoup's.

Vaith's are in Yankton...but bulls get around. Was Red Cloud like that? Any Doverish cattle I've been around were sort of neutral - dont bother them and they won't bother you.
Open Range progeny had pretty meager weaning weights on ASA. EVEN I want at least a 500lb weaning weight and I think a Shorthorn cow should do better than that to call herself a Shorthorn.

I was a surprised to see one of the bulls we used mentioned in this thread.  I can shed a little light on the A&T Lone Ranger bull.  I visited with Aaron before I bought him.  I was a little nervous about the WW as well. His dam went to get flushed while he was at side.  He got sick while there and looked a lot like death when they came back.  Aaron treated him and he bounced right back but had to play catch up from there on out.  Which is hard to do for a calf that young.  By the time he was delivered to us he was looking really good.

As for type and performance.  We bought him to use on heifers.  He did work pretty well there.  The calves weren't the biggest ones in the pen and we didn't expect them to be, but they were adequate.  His daughters, the few we had, is where we saw the boost in performance.  Not large udders  and not the prettiest cows, but they raised very good calves that were deceptively heavier than they looked.

In comparison to Captain Obvious, I would say Lone Ranger was slightly larger framer, longer necked and cleaner shouldered, but didn't quite have as much power and arch to his rib.  Lone Ranger was very HEAVY scurred.  The scurrs seemed to skip a generation, but when they came back they came back very large.  We lost him one hot august day when he decided to pick a fight with our Brass bull.  He was only 2 1/2 years old so I didn't breed him to very many cows to get a perfect idea of how those calves would perform, but the few I had kept up with our other herd bulls at the time.

 

[librarian]

Thanks for the history on Lone Ranger- sorry he got hurt.  And XBAR, you make a great point about relativity.

What I was getting at with EVEN I want at least a 500lb weaning weight and I think a Shorthorn cow should do better than that to call herself a Shorthorn. was lbs of calf as a percentage of lbs of cow- 50% being the minimum expectation for remaining in the herd.
Mature Shorthorn cows weighing under 1000 lbs are uncommon these days so that's where I got the idea that weaning weights under 500 lbs were too low.

 

[JTM]

I am going to cite the two articles you posted above Librarian and suggest that possibly those lower weaning weights mean more profit to Aaron's operation.

I was pondering that- wondering how much the extra weaning weight on these ET calves cost.
Progeny records for DRC 4133KC

Those calves were fed quite a bit, no doubt.  With that said, I still doubt any of them came close to weaning half their dam's weight. 

Weaning weight is quite the topic.  So many variables it makes it difficult to even touch on this topic.  I bet I could increase my weaning weights by 50lbs or more just be reducing my stocking rate.  This is one factor that doesn't get the consideration it deserves.  Are the quoted weaning weights at the recommended stocking rate, or are you only running half as many as you could? How do we adjust for this consideration?  In addition to the role stocking rate plays on weaning weights, the next consideration is cow size.  Are these 1100lb cows weaning 500lb calves or are they 1350lb cows? Are they 1100lbs at a bcs 6 or 1350lbs at a bcs 4?  There's just so many factors it makes it nearly impossible to have any realistic comparison or discussion.  I hear this 'low input program' platitude and it just makes my ears ring.  What is a low input program?  Is low input 1500lb cows grazing irrigated legumes so long as they're not given 'grain'?, or is it 1300lb cows grazing 8 months and then standing at a hay feeder 4 months out of the year? or is it 1200lb cows grazing 12 months out of the year and fluctuating 2-3 body condition scores with the forage every year? Are these cows that are weaning 30% of their body weight every year? 40%? 50%? Did they have to be supplemented some high dollar fortified mineral to hit the 50%? Or are the cows calving in April and weaning half their weight come late October on nothing but grass?  There's producers I know who spend more annually on various minerals than I do on all production costs combined! So again, what is low input?  What do you think, rn? Is 50% WW% the magic number? Or is that bar too high?  What percent of her body weight should a 'low input' cow wean?

On my purebred Shorthorn cows which I am breeding for moderate, maternal, calving ease, vigor, and unmeasurable traits first, I would like to see 45% and on the crossbred cows I would like to see 50%. Like you said though, everything changes every year based on stocking rates, weather, drought, age of cow, and other factors. Context is everything.

We just weighed our cows with calves on the ground in June and they averaged 1248 lbs.