shorthorns

[Will]

If you look at ost of the recent winners the genetics are all very similar.  With as many embryo's that are sold with the same genetics you would think their would be a more diverse herd prefix's in the winners circle. 

 

[feeder duck]

Sullivan Farms is the best they have raised winner after winner
Cyclone Trace, V8, Vogel, DJS Shorthorns, and Kolt Cattle

I will not disagree with you the firms listed above produce awesome cattle, but there is so much about this business that is never said. At what point can cattle be sold at $20,000 to $30,000 or more and payback to there buyers in the same dividends.Most do not! The economy is in the hole yet egos still need fed. Have egos outgrown common sense. Do the math. At some point the bubble is gonna burst. Am I jealous NO. I have bred as many good ones and winners as my heart desires for no more cows than we run. I do not make a living at this so if I do not sell 1 Shorthorn my kids still eat and my bills get paid. I will say if I have it my way I will be down to 1 Shorthorn cow by this time next year. After 30 years that is hard to swallow, but I refuse to play the game.

Sorry just a little pissed at the the current state of the breed. Politics and BS!!!!

 

[kfacres]

Sullivan Farms is the best they have raised winner after winner
Cyclone Trace, V8, Vogel, DJS Shorthorns, and Kolt Cattle

I will not disagree with you the firms listed above produce awesome cattle, but there is so much about this business that is never said. At what point can cattle be sold at $20,000 to $30,000 or more and payback to there buyers in the same dividends.Most do not! The economy is in the hole yet egos still need fed. Have egos outgrown common sense. Do the math. At some point the bubble is gonna burst. Am I jealous NO. I have bred as many good ones and winners as my heart desires for no more cows than we run. I do not make a living at this so if I do not sell 1 Shorthorn my kids still eat and my bills get paid. I will say if I have it my way I will be down to 1 Shorthorn cow by this time next year. After 30 years that is hard to swallow, but I refuse to play the game.

Sorry just a little pissed at the the current state of the breed. Politics and BS!!!!

send those WS and SM cattle to my place... I'll breed em ...

 

[aandtcattle]

Sullivan Farms is the best they have raised winner after winner
Cyclone Trace, V8, Vogel, DJS Shorthorns, and Kolt Cattle

I will not disagree with you the firms listed above produce awesome cattle, but there is so much about this business that is never said. At what point can cattle be sold at $20,000 to $30,000 or more and payback to there buyers in the same dividends.Most do not! The economy is in the hole yet egos still need fed. Have egos outgrown common sense. Do the math. At some point the bubble is gonna burst. Am I jealous NO. I have bred as many good ones and winners as my heart desires for no more cows than we run. I do not make a living at this so if I do not sell 1 Shorthorn my kids still eat and my bills get paid. I will say if I have it my way I will be down to 1 Shorthorn cow by this time next year. After 30 years that is hard to swallow, but I refuse to play the game.

Sorry just a little pissed at the the current state of the breed. Politics and BS!!!!

Who's complaining about the current state of the breed?  From my vantage point things have never been better for shorthorns in my lifetime.  I have been receiving heavy demand for bulls and females and have been getting back 100% positive feedback from clients.  No drama, no politics and no bs involved.  Thats the way I like it.  There is demand out there for good shorthorns in the commercial sector.  If you're tired of the bs and drama, sounds like you need to try a different breed of shorthorn. <cowboy>

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Jeff Cornells Shorthorns would work in any commercial environment!! And one of the more conservative old family breeders bought Wildside from him. The moderate thick cattle hes raised for years have been  around a dam sight longer than Capt Obvious-maybe he just isnt permanently proud of one animal,and is in an area where they also have to be attractive in the ring. O0

 

[JTM]

I guess my first question would be; Where are you? I would think seriously about purchasing from somebody fairly local that could be there for you when you have questions or if for some reason have any issues with the animal. There are many good Shorthorn breeders all over the country. Look for somebody within an hour drive from you. That's my two cents.

 

[feeder duck]

Sullivan Farms is the best they have raised winner after winner
Cyclone Trace, V8, Vogel, DJS Shorthorns, and Kolt Cattle

I will not disagree with you the firms listed above produce awesome cattle, but there is so much about this business that is never said. At what point can cattle be sold at $20,000 to $30,000 or more and payback to there buyers in the same dividends.Most do not! The economy is in the hole yet egos still need fed. Have egos outgrown common sense. Do the math. At some point the bubble is gonna burst. Am I jealous NO. I have bred as many good ones and winners as my heart desires for no more cows than we run. I do not make a living at this so if I do not sell 1 Shorthorn my kids still eat and my bills get paid. I will say if I have it my way I will be down to 1 Shorthorn cow by this time next year. After 30 years that is hard to swallow, but I refuse to play the game.

Sorry just a little pissed at the the current state of the breed. Politics and BS!!!!

Who's complaining about the current state of the breed?  From my vantage point things have never been better for shorthorns in my lifetime.  I have been receiving heavy demand for bulls and females and have been getting back 100% positive feedback from clients.  No drama, no politics and no bs involved.  Thats the way I like it.  There is demand out there for good shorthorns in the commercial sector.  If you're tired of the bs and drama, sounds like you need to try a different breed of shorthorn. <cowboy>

Funny you mention going to a different breed. I have been working on that. Red Angus to be exact. I personally may be down to one or two cows, but I am not out. I still think I have a donor or two that can run with the best of them. As for the state of the breed. How many commercial bull do you sell year? I can not remember the last time I open a western livestock publication that had a sale bill advertising 200 or even 100 commercial purebred Shorthorn bulls off test for sale. That's because there are none! My beef is not with the breed. Lets call an ace an ace., in the Shorthorn breed the show world and commercial world do not cross. Open the Shorthorn Country and tell me it is not show ring based....You Can Not!! I live were ground sell for $6000 to $9000 and acre. We have no commercial market here. You can not run the volume that you can west of the river. If you sell a bull in this state he better be black. Barry Jordan is the most commercial, data backed shorthorn breeder in the country and he sells a fraction of the 200 number a year. The Shorthorn breed has been good to me and my family with no more than 15 to 20 cows NONE costing more than $2500 we have bred the Res. Grand female at IN State Fair and Louisville. We have bred the second place point steer in the TJLA circuit. Won grand,res. or breed champion at every major Jackpot in IN. Won champion or Res Shorthorn female a Wisconsin AGR,IL Beef Expo and Hoosier beef expo.Had female sell from us for $10,000 and $15,000 10 years ago. Pound for pound we can run with them. It ain't braggin if you can back it up and we have. I do not vent often, but when I do I will speak my mind. I will go out of my way for my customers and have. The need to have egos stroked in the show ring these days have far out weighed the reality the cattle should sell for. I was there when I was a younger breeder and I would of sold my soul for the one big win. I did it though with a first calf heifer pair that cost me $1750 at Ward Bakenhus's sale. Her first calf for me sold for $3000 of the farm and resold for  $10,000. It can be done, but the political BS has gotten way out of hand. It is what it is, but breeders in this breed are getting out for a reason more and more each day.

JUST MY OPINION...you know what they say about that.....been called that as well!!!!

Jeff Cornell

 

[feeder duck]

Sorry this probably is not the post to air out my opinion. The answer to the original post should be. Look on line there are plenty of very helpful breeders out there. The original breeders mentioned would be very suited to find the quality of heifer you are looking for. They will on the other hand be high dollar sales. Josh Greenhorn would be another. Harden's sale flyer looks very promising as well. The list could go on. If you are looking for summer and fall born heifer we could help you or point you in the direction of a heifer that might interest you.

Jeff Cornell
www.showsteers.com/cornell

 

[aj]

I got a catalog on the New Generation sale in Illinois. Sept 4th. There was a goof up in catalog cause no birth weights were listed but seems to be some high powered cattle selling there.

 

[aandtcattle]

Jeff Cornells Shorthorns would work in any commercial environment!! And one of the more conservative old family breeders bought Wildside from him. The moderate thick cattle hes raised for years have been  around a dam sight longer than Capt Obvious-maybe he just isnt permanently proud of one animal,and is in an area where they also have to be attractive in the ring. O0

Mr. Tenenbaum,
When did I say that Cornell's shorties wouldnt work in a commercial environment?  Yes, I am sure they have been around longer than CO as he was just born in 2006.  Where do you get the idea that I am "permanently proud of one animal"?  I am lost.  I also understand the importance of having cattle that are attractive and have eye appeal.  Why so bitter, Mark? (lol)

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

You know it is sad when the breed has come to a point when it is needed to advertise that cattle can be purchased in the $4000 dollar range.

Jeff

Just what I was thinking

Still blows my mind that a yearling unproven bull will sell for FAR FAR more then a older PROVEN bull that evryone has heard of.  Once a unproven beast approaches north of 4000, my B.S. radar picks up something in the water. 

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I have never personally dealt with feeder duck but I believe you sir have more to offer this breed then most. I have walked in A@T's pastures and saw what I saw. The breed needs both of you IMO. A@T will be around for a long time I believe. There is no reason a few of us breeders cant come together and offer bulls of similar type and kind in a large amount. The key, I believe, is letting folks know plenty of time beforehand what is going on. Angus firms sell bulls on large scales everyday. So does Charlois and Red Angus IMO. If you truly love shorthorns then you will stay the course and we will come together.

 

[feeder duck]

I have never personally dealt with feeder duck but I believe you sir have more to offer this breed then most. I have walked in A@T's pastures and saw what I saw. The breed needs both of you IMO. A@T will be around for a long time I believe. There is no reason a few of us breeders cant come together and offer bulls of similar type and kind in a large amount. The key, I believe, is letting folks know plenty of time beforehand what is going on. Angus firms sell bulls on large scales everyday. So does Charlois and Red Angus IMO. If you truly love shorthorns then you will stay the course and we will come together.

Well said and very true!! I have not discourse towards any breeder just need to vent!! PEACE <beer>

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Jeff Cornells Shorthorns would work in any commercial environment!! And one of the more conservative old family breeders bought Wildside from him. The moderate thick cattle hes raised for years have been  around a dam sight longer than Capt Obvious-maybe he just isnt permanently proud of one animal,and is in an area where they also have to be attractive in the ring. O0

Mr. Tenenbaum,
When did I say that Cornell's shorties wouldnt work in a commercial environment?  Yes, I am sure they have been around longer than CO as he was just born in 2006.  Where do you get the idea that I am "permanently proud of one animal"?  I am lost.  I also understand the importance of having cattle that are attractive and have eye appeal.  Why so bitter, Mark? (lol)///-Bitter? Im not unhappy with what I have produced at all,Theres a red horned 78 pound BW bull that went to Iowa out of the backwoods Kansas sale where Shorthorns barely get a bid. He had a YW close to 1200 pounds,and sold a bit of semen word of mouth.-I just dont see where you get off with a smug reply like that to Jeff Cornell-His cattle are probably easier keeping than a majority of the animals out there,and just as easy calving.Hes just in a different area-your gift(or should I say HIS) to the cattle industry would probably not work as well  in Indiana,because it is show oriented. LOL O0

 

[kfacres]

Somebody get a camera, and take a picture of my words that are about to come about... They don't get spoken very often..

I hate to disagree with somebody, that I agree wtih 95+% of the time, but I'm going to have to agree with Jeff on his post above, over Aaron... maybe this is too late, but last night right before my computor messed up, the ending on this convo wasn't posted yet.

I think that the Cornell shorthorn program is one of the most interesting, unique breeding programs I have ever seen, in about any beef cattle breed.  I have been there, purchased from him, and are building upon his genetics.  I have seen his Wildside bull, and quite honestly, that bull is my 'ideal beef bull'- seriously... I am currently working on power point presentation for a local 4H club that I have plans to begin helping, and would like to start a livestock judging team, if interest is available; and I used the mature Wildside photo on it, as my ideal animal.  I would much rather have a bull like him, at his age, with his looks-- than any other bull in the world.  I kick myself every time that I see the Dale guy from S IN purchased him ;D, as I wasn't on SP to see WIldside advertised for sale.. I also kick myself every day for not purchasing that pair of heifers that Jeff advertised on here about a year ago for dirt cheap.  Sure Wildside is only one animal, but he's not the only beast that Jeff has produced.. he's just about the only one that anybody's heard of, or got his nuts left intact.  

Why do I like Jeff Cornell so much... He's not a member of the Shorthorn mafia, and he's not a member of the red cows club (minus his new Red Angus-- which he's experiencing TREMENDOUS success with).  What sets him apart?  Jeff produces ROAN (DICTIONARY SHORTHORN) cattle that can live, REproduce, and SHOW-- and most certainly are not dinks.  Sure, I'm bitter towards the showring, but what legit shorthorn breeder isn't?  IMO, livestock need to have appeal to them, if you can't stand to look at them everyday, then why have them?  Showring appeal is important, wether you attend the show or not.  Jeff isn't a Trump lover, Jeff isn't a 4 frame red bull lover, and really Jeff didn't use the piss out of Double Stuff-- which makes him unique-- he doesn't fit in any one of the three divisions of Shorthorn breeders!  Jeff truly is a fitter, breeder, and master peice maker.  He's done his own little thing all these years, and that's what I strive to be like.

4000-9000 bucks an acre-- Jeff I'm betting more.. Just last week we had 160 acres in the county north of us sell for $12,500 per acre-- all to one buyer... We are now straight west of you as a crow flys...  This ground was about 25 miles from the Mississippi River.  and personally, I'd rather than the central IN BLACK DIRT anyday!

Seriously, people, I really do not think the shorthorn thing will ever come together, although one big dog sure is trying to unify it.  I see it more as that guy is wanting to create a monopoly.  Big whoop!  everybody will always be after the latest, greatest FAD of a hairball!

Aaron, like I already said, I really hate to disagree with you, but I saw what Rob Sneeds sale results looked like (not even market price)-- and I'm a believer in his program as much as anybody- and his program is commercial more so than anybody else's.  Sure you guys are different, and the same all in one-- but I've spent time around quite a few commercial cattlemen, and I dont' see it coming as fast or as serious as you say... Maybe it's your black angus background that's propelling you above and beyond... but Never, I say never-- will the shorthorn gain a commercial acceptance like it deserves, or should deserve (minus the showring Trump cattle). And can you blame them?  Not I- shorthorn usually means poor doing, and non commercially acceptable, and it's hard to change a BAD REP!  A bad reputation, will do FAR more damange, than a slight good rep will EVER do good.

Jeff, I'll also come out publicly, and say that the next time you sell a couple heifers or cows like that dirt cheap pair last year, let me know. I have a feeling that our cows will make a profit again this year, and it might not be a bad idea to buy a few more.  The beast we purchased from you didn't quite work out as well as we hoped, but I'm sure 110% satisfied with him, and what he has produced.  You send those Wildside and Steermaker deals to my place...  I'll pick a roan over a red any day of the week.. red is just so boring to me...  Sorry brock and Aaron...  Ya, I turned the cows over to the parents when we moved and took the sheep with us-- so they'll need something else to eat the pastures down, I know they're already complaining about having too much grass...   (lol)

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I never said all the cattle have to be solid red. It helps but it isnt law. I am going to disagree with you. Do you think 30 or 40 years ago all the hereford folks saw the angus tsunami headed their way? I doubt it. You dont prove your worth to real world producers by showing them a pedigree. You earn business one breeder at a time. Produce what is needed and prove that your herd can do it. The rest takes care of itself. that Rob Sneed deal was a mess. Many many many folks were trying to bid online and it never got done. I guess the auctioneer was late for supper and was in a hurry. You have some good points but i still disagree Jody.

 

[kfacres]

I never said all the cattle have to be solid red. It helps but it isnt law. I am going to disagree with you. Do you think 30 or 40 years ago all the hereford folks saw the angus tsunami headed their way? I doubt it. You dont prove your worth to real world producers by showing them a pedigree. You earn business one breeder at a time. Produce what is needed and prove that your herd can do it. The rest takes care of itself. that Rob Sneed deal was a mess. Many many many folks were trying to bid online and it never got done. I guess the auctioneer was late for supper and was in a hurry. You have some good points but i still disagree Jody.

Brock, I told you above, that I hate to disagree with somebody that I agree with 95+% of the time, applies to you as well.... 

I think you have a point, in which the Herfeford guys didn't see it coming.. but from what I have heard, they deserved it.  I have 2 old Herf Journels from 1929, and 1930 something, and I can see exactly why the national Herf herd demised- same reason they still don't excell today.. lack of genetic breeding power in diversity.  Every bull in those jounals was bred identical, and people were head over heals--  hey that sounds familiar? Shorthorn Trump side of things????

Here's why I do not think the Shorthorn will excell...  The showring sets the standard- people attend shows to see what's hot and new. Not all, but most.  Average ole Com guys go to denver or state fair, and what do they see? A bunch of trump beasts... that's not what they want!  What they want is what you, Rob, and Aaron are producing-- these guy's aren't shorthorn breeders, they don't get the country, they don't get on SP.. How are they going to find you three?  Word of mouth is the only option, most of these guys don't have a cell phone, don't coverse with anybody else other than the guys at the sale barn...  By the time they find out about you, the Angus association, which does a far superior job compared to any other livestock breed association, will have something better and newer to throw their way... I just don't see it coming! 

The world continues around based on disagreements...  Keep it up Brock, you make your cattle, just a 'tad' bigger.. and I'm in... I know you'r not all red, heck you've told me that...  It doesn't matter what color they are in the long sceme of things.. but those roans sure look pretty (i'm a sucker for pretty), and that's a shorthorn... Otherwise, you get red- what's a Gelbvieh< LIm< RED Ang< Shorthorn??  Same as black, boring! 

 

[aj]

I do think here is a possibility of gaining market share in the commercial bull market. If you have moderate framed cattle with least 3 generations of economical important traits. I think you will need to differeniate you product. They will need to be moderate. There are acres and acres of 1800 pound Shorthorn cows out there whose bull calves weigh 110# cows. They can eat 1 round bale aday a piece. I think the worm may turn eventually especially if the Angus cattle don't start watching cow size. jmo.....................It would be interesting to me to see data on how black exotic bulls have been selling. Are they accepted as a market share of commercial bulls or our they currently a fad? The black Limi,Simi,Gelbvieh and etc.

 

[kfacres]

I do think here is a possibility of gaining market share in the commercial bull market. If you have moderate framed cattle with least 3 generations of economical important traits. I think you will need to differeniate you product. They will need to be moderate. There are acres and acres of 1800 pound Shorthorn cows out there whose bull calves weigh 110# cows. They can eat 1 round bale aday a piece. I think the worm may turn eventually especially if the Angus cattle don't start watching cow size. jmo.....................It would be interesting to me to see data on how black exotic bulls have been selling. Are they accepted as a market share of commercial bulls or our they currently a fad? The black Limi,Simi,Gelbvieh and etc.

.

At the University, I just graduated from, we have a performance bull sale every year.. the SimAngus half and 3/4 bulls have been selling like HOTCAKES... It's almost to the point, that if it's not that, don't bring it.  I'm talking prob 4000 average.  A few of the upper end PB Ang bull sell well, as well as some Sim, but mostly the hybrid bulls.  We've sold some really good Char smoke deals, that were up towards the top...

I think it's about hybrid vigor in the bulls, as much as the females anymore.. People think that an F1 x F1 is the way to go, and sometimes I cannot blame them...  I could see the Shorthorn F1 females working out,, but I think it's going to have to be mated to a black bull...

Are commercial guys willing to seperate their herd to make their own F1 Shorthorn replacements-- or would they rather buy them? 

Are these black cattle commercial herds, that are using a Shorthorn bull, promoting red bodied cattle?  If they are banking on producing black calves, from these red bulls.. then what's it matter if they used a shorthorn, Angus, or zebra- if the goal is still to produce black calves?  The shorthorn breed gets nothing from a pot load of black steers, if they carry recessive red and nobody knows it>  What good does that do? 

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Good stuff on here! I feel the breed could go either way that has been mentioned. Folks have to want to change. First thing I learned at rehab lol. There are so many types of black angus now they almost have little mimi breeds inside the big one. Its confusing as hell trying to figure out who is a good cattleman and who is a crook. All breeds have their own set of problems. I would like to see more cattle selected for show winners that more resemble the type that is profitable in the real world. Captain Obv went to louisville and got buried. Fluff and puff beat him and I will bet ya not one of those bulls is worth a damn today. I never went to college for beef so  for the life of me I cant see what the judge sees in a overwieght heifer that is obviously older then what is stated, walkin around with so much fat in her udder it jiggles like my old man's beer gut. To me thats a waste of feed, money and time. Not to mention the heifer will never have a good chance to show what she can do. She will never milk to her potential and she never learned how to fend for herself in a pasture when they have to eat stockpiled fescue. You show any good successful commercial guy how he can increase profits by using your bulls. HONESTLY. And you will have a good business. Ask Mike Keeney how many head he sells a year/ Larry Leonhardt. Why? because they are honest and the cattle get the job done and do it for a long time. I will always be trying to get shorties in the door. They can really help a rancher out and i am out to prove it. Im 36 years old now. I wonder what the breed will look like when Im 56? 76?