shorthorns

[aj]

(clapping)

 

[Okotoks]

im looking for a shorthorn heifer that will win and produce good calves where should i go

I like the fact you want her to produce! I would recommend when you get down to your final selection you look really carefully at how the dam and grand dam have produced as well as her sire's other daughters. Checking out the ASA sites animal search wiould be a useful tool when you get to that stage.
Good luck (thumbsup)

http://search.shorthorn.org/default.aspx

 

[JTM]

O Josh, quite blowing smoke and self promoting... You're starting to remind me of the old liars club that visits this site... <beer> <rock> (clapping)

Let’s get the definition of “to blow smoke” which is basically to deceive others.  I don’t think that there is any deception in this thread just a bunch of opinions formed by a bunch of cattle people from the experiences they are having with their cattle programs. 

quite or quit? Really Jody makes more sense if you at least use the correct word. 

A definition of “truth” is fact, the definition of fact is “something that actually exists” which makes me think that “the truth” is an awful user name for you since you are someone that has nothing positive to say with no factual basis about anything not even your own program (or lack thereof). 

really?  Is that the best thing you could find to nit pick my posts?  I tell you what, just for that.. i'll change my user name.. Just for you!

What is this site for but to blow smoke and self promote...  ;D

\true, true :

For the record though, using Jaimie's definition of blowing smoke, I don't blow smoke. I have nothing to gain in deceiving anybody when it comes to my operation. Why do you think we always get buried in shows and can't sell a heifer for more than $2500? Probably because I don't blow smoke, oh, and I don't smoke blow either... I guess I was thinking of "blowing off steam" instead of blowing smoke. So I guess if you actually were calling me a liar, then you would be "false, truth". 

 

[kfacres]

O Josh, quite blowing smoke and self promoting... You're starting to remind me of the old liars club that visits this site... <beer> <rock> (clapping)

Let’s get the definition of “to blow smoke” which is basically to deceive others.  I don’t think that there is any deception in this thread just a bunch of opinions formed by a bunch of cattle people from the experiences they are having with their cattle programs. 

quite or quit? Really Jody makes more sense if you at least use the correct word. 

A definition of “truth” is fact, the definition of fact is “something that actually exists” which makes me think that “the truth” is an awful user name for you since you are someone that has nothing positive to say with no factual basis about anything not even your own program (or lack thereof). 

really?  Is that the best thing you could find to nit pick my posts?  I tell you what, just for that.. i'll change my user name.. Just for you!

What is this site for but to blow smoke and self promote...  ;D

\true, true :

For the record though, using Jaimie's definition of blowing smoke, I don't blow smoke. I have nothing to gain in deceiving anybody when it comes to my operation. Why do you think we always get buried in shows and can't sell a heifer for more than $2500? Probably because I don't blow smoke, oh, and I don't smoke blow either... I guess I was thinking of "blowing off steam" instead of blowing smoke. So I guess if you actually were calling me a liar, then you would be "false, truth". 

No, I'm giving you a hard time, for stealing that bull that I had my eyes on, lived too far away from, and didn't act quick enough on...  You are one of the most interesting shorthorn breeders I have found as well Josh...  In a class of your own, you follow both crowds, and have been getting away with it quite well.. I seriously do wish you the best of luck- with the three herd sires you list... I think interesting things should come..

There's only 3 or 4 old (young) liars on here, and most of the time I don't even waste time reading their 'books', or looking at the pictures... 

 

[RyanChandler]

I do think here is a possibility of gaining market share in the commercial bull market. If you have moderate framed cattle with least 3 generations of economical important traits. I think you will need to differeniate you product. They will need to be moderate. There are acres and acres of 1800 pound Shorthorn cows out there whose bull calves weigh 110# cows. They can eat 1 round bale aday a piece. I think the worm may turn eventually especially if the Angus cattle don't start watching cow size. jmo.....................It would be interesting to me to see data on how black exotic bulls have been selling. Are they accepted as a market share of commercial bulls or our they currently a fad? The black Limi,Simi,Gelbvieh and etc.

I agree with AJ, A&T, and Brock on this one. I also agree with some of what The Truth said but I do believe that Shorthorns are in a very interesting and exciting spot right now. If we can show that we have an outcross that can benefit the commercial Angus industry then we could be on to something. I think the Select Sires Shorthorn lineup is a step in the right direction and hopefully some black cow people will try some of those bulls. I can't imagine they are as good as the one I own and bought from Brock though...  <rock> (that one right up there on the left)

If complete was a Purebred and a frame score larger, I would bring good money to the table for an interest in the bull.  What I question is his usefulness as is.  As a crossbred, I don't see where he has any place on the seedstock side, and with his stature, I don't see him pounding out the weaning weights as a terminal sire.  I have a like concern with the red neck roan bull unbelievabull .  I was sky high on both bulls until seeing their relative lack of size compared to the black cows each is running with.    In what type operation do you see Complete's potential maximized?

 

[OH Breeder]

If complete was a Purebred and a frame score larger, I would bring good money to the table for an interest in the bull.  What I question is his usefulness as is.  As a crossbred, I don't see where he has any place on the seedstock side, and with his stature, I don't see him pounding out the weaning weights as a terminal sire.  I have a like concern with the red neck roan bull unbelievabull .  I was sky high on both bulls until seeing their relative lack of size compared to the black cows each is running with.    In what type operation do you see Complete's potential maximized?


First...poor person ask about buying cattle and look at the pages we have accumulated.

Second...my bull which was mentioned. Unbelievabull. He was purposely selected for his size for my females. I would never judge a bull soully on a picture either. I can think of at least one sire in the past 10 years that looked like death and wasn't anything to write home about in pictures but has had some record semen sales I am sure.

the previous herd sire we used was made up of some pretty "popular" show ring genetics. His average bw was well over 100 #'s It was not an easy 100#'s and he was not heifer safe. When i sold him he had run all summer with cows and was still over 2400#'s. He was too big to mount many of my cows. His calves were hard to finish out. They were not easy feeding. I don't have the luxury of having fields of grain of my own and a grain bank. I have to purchase all my feed. I need to decrease the overall size of my mature fats and improve weight gain.  I will tell you right now-Unbelievabull has run all summer with about 15 cows and has only had pasture and still has his cover. The previous herd sire had a grain bucket in front of him to keep any cover.

No offense but I could careless if someone else likes him or not.That is probably why I hesitated posting his picture. I knew when I purchased him he didn't come from huge cattle. But i did know he came from consistent cattle. Jake's Proud Jazz hasn't done too bad out there. Unbelievabull has some specific things I want in my program. One thing is to down size some of my females offspring. In our area even if I want to sell a county fair calf they can't be over 51" mature 1350# s or they are out of the running.Tell me how you get a mature steer 50" hip height out of a frame 7 cow? I guess I raise what I like or what works for our little operation. That is what we all should be doing. My cattle do what I ask them to do........ isn't THAT what its about?

When spring rolls around we should have a few to evaluate. I guess I wll know more when I have some babies on the ground.

 

[RyanChandler]

If complete was a Purebred and a frame score larger, I would bring good money to the table for an interest in the bull.  What I question is his usefulness as is.  As a crossbred, I don't see where he has any place on the seedstock side, and with his stature, I don't see him pounding out the weaning weights as a terminal sire.  I have a like concern with the red neck roan bull unbelievabull .   I was sky high on both bulls until seeing their relative lack of size compared to the black cows each is running with.    In what type operation do you see Complete's potential maximized?


First...poor person ask about buying cattle and look at the pages we have accumulated.

Second...my bull which was mentioned. Unbelievabull. He was purposely selected for his size for my females. I would never judge a bull soully on a picture either. I can think of at least one sire in the past 10 years that looked like death and wasn't anything to write home about in pictures but has had some record semen sales I am sure.

the previous herd sire we used was made up of some pretty "popular" show ring genetics. His average bw was well over 100 #'s It was not an easy 100#'s and he was not heifer safe. When i sold him he had run all summer with cows and was still over 2400#'s. He was too big to mount many of my cows. His calves were hard to finish out. They were not easy feeding. I don't have the luxury of having fields of grain of my own and a grain bank. I have to purchase all my feed. I need to decrease the overall size of my mature fats and improve weight gain.  I will tell you right now-Unbelievabull has run all summer with about 15 cows and has only had pasture and still has his cover. The previous herd sire had a grain bucket in front of him to keep any cover.

No offense but I could careless if someone else likes him or not.That is probably why I hesitated posting his picture. I knew when I purchased him he didn't come from huge cattle. But i did know he came from consistent cattle. Jake's Proud Jazz hasn't done too bad out there. Unbelievabull has some specific things I want in my program. One thing is to down size some of my females offspring. In our area even if I want to sell a county fair calf they can't be over 51" mature 1350# s or they are out of the running.Tell me how you get a mature steer 50" hip height out of a frame 7 cow? I guess I raise what I like or what works for our little operation. That is what we all should be doing. My cattle do what I ask them to do........ isn't THAT what its about?

When spring rolls around we should have a few to evaluate. I guess I wll know more when I have some babies on the ground.

The first day you posted Unbelievable I called Stewart Phillips, who I previously purchased 16 heifers from- 8 JSF/RB Proud Jake 49U daughters, 6 HVR Castlerock 708 ET daughtets, and 2 out of ML Cabela 0761, to tell him he had to check out this red neck rOan bull I ran across.  Hearing how highly I spoke of your bull, he called Sue to see what we could find out about him and if he was a bull we could acquire.  It wasn't until Stew pointed out the picture, of what I would call moderate sized cows he was running with, that I had my reservations. 

I am not criticizing your bull by any means I just do not feel my cattle need to be downsized anymore. If you feel yours do do, then I agree, Unbelievabull looks like an excellent bull to use. 

I am still in search of a polled (rOan or red) Purebred bull, that is heifer safe, doesn't downsize 5-6 frame cows, that's deep hearted, structurally sound, and balanced.  If anyone has any leads I would greatly appreciate a pm or call 903.819.9955

 

[kfacres]

If complete was a Purebred and a frame score larger, I would bring good money to the table for an interest in the bull.  What I question is his usefulness as is.  As a crossbred, I don't see where he has any place on the seedstock side, and with his stature, I don't see him pounding out the weaning weights as a terminal sire.  I have a like concern with the red neck roan bull unbelievabull .   I was sky high on both bulls until seeing their relative lack of size compared to the black cows each is running with.    In what type operation do you see Complete's potential maximized?


First...poor person ask about buying cattle and look at the pages we have accumulated.

Second...my bull which was mentioned. Unbelievabull. He was purposely selected for his size for my females. I would never judge a bull soully on a picture either. I can think of at least one sire in the past 10 years that looked like death and wasn't anything to write home about in pictures but has had some record semen sales I am sure.

the previous herd sire we used was made up of some pretty "popular" show ring genetics. His average bw was well over 100 #'s It was not an easy 100#'s and he was not heifer safe. When i sold him he had run all summer with cows and was still over 2400#'s. He was too big to mount many of my cows. His calves were hard to finish out. They were not easy feeding. I don't have the luxury of having fields of grain of my own and a grain bank. I have to purchase all my feed. I need to decrease the overall size of my mature fats and improve weight gain.  I will tell you right now-Unbelievabull has run all summer with about 15 cows and has only had pasture and still has his cover. The previous herd sire had a grain bucket in front of him to keep any cover.

No offense but I could careless if someone else likes him or not.That is probably why I hesitated posting his picture. I knew when I purchased him he didn't come from huge cattle. But i did know he came from consistent cattle. Jake's Proud Jazz hasn't done too bad out there. Unbelievabull has some specific things I want in my program. One thing is to down size some of my females offspring. In our area even if I want to sell a county fair calf they can't be over 51" mature 1350# s or they are out of the running.Tell me how you get a mature steer 50" hip height out of a frame 7 cow? I guess I raise what I like or what works for our little operation. That is what we all should be doing. My cattle do what I ask them to do........ isn't THAT what its about?

When spring rolls around we should have a few to evaluate. I guess I wll know more when I have some babies on the ground.

The first day you posted Unbelievable I called Stewart Phillips, who I previously purchased 16 heifers from- 8 JSF/RB Proud Jake 49U daughters, 6 HVR Castlerock 708 ET daughtets, and 2 out of ML Cabela 0761, to tell him he had to check out this red neck rOan bull I ran across.  Hearing how highly I spoke of your bull, he called Sue to see what we could find out about him and if he was a bull we could acquire.  It wasn't until Stew pointed out the picture, of what I would call moderate sized cows he was running with, that I had my reservations. 

I am not criticizing your bull by any means I just do not feel my cattle need to be downsized anymore. If you feel yours do do, then I agree, Unbelievabull looks like an excellent bull to use. 

I am still in search of a polled (rOan or red) Purebred bull, that is heifer safe, doesn't downsize 5-6 frame cows, that's deep hearted, structurally sound, and balanced.  If anyone has any leads I would greatly appreciate a pm or call 903.819.9955

I do, but there isn't much semen left on him, and he's older than dirt....  I'm kinda wishing I had some semen on him...  But I had a son, and that's what matters.

 

[sue]

Ryan

complete's commerical market share is where the $ are at- let's face it- The pb sh breed is small you typically fill a 2  unit to full cane order. I think this was one of the recent frustration of a pb shorthorn distributor that recently closed the doors?  I hope you get the chance to see this 3/4 blood in person, he is incredibly thick. I dont see a "frame" issue- guess I didnt notice. As far as the purebred sector- in a breed that offers alot of maine influence, complete can offer alot of vigor and in my opinion lbs with out adding additional mature cow size.  It's a balancing act- you know i love this shx angus deal. I personally am looking pretty seriously at a 3/4 sh to put back on 1/2 to 3/4 captain  x angus offspring. 

unbelievabull may not be the right bull back on some already JPJ influenced cows? However I do see a incredible cross over appeal in this guy.  $8 corn , $365 T hay and in the middle of a drought, will this condition change?

Ryan good luck with calving.

 

[sue]

BTW
Places I would consider for a bull-

Meadowlane (0019- looked cool and so was his mama) that sale is Oct.

Peakview Ranch- featured in July issue-  moderate, dover influenced and who doesnt want 4.42 lbs/day  in a steer pen. Mature bulls sell or sold privately - read the article.. Peakview Ranch, CO

 

[aj]

Let me throw this out there. At state fairs.........instead of pig racing........we stage cow eating contest's. We set up pens and then we seperate a cow from each breed. Herford, Charolais, Chi. Limmy,Simmy,Shortie,Longhorn, Gelbvieh, Low line etc. We take bets and other donation type deals on the side. The cow that eats the most during the duration of the fair wins 1,000$. Just a thought....always trying to help.

 

[JTM]

O Josh, quite blowing smoke and self promoting... You're starting to remind me of the old liars club that visits this site... <beer> <rock> (clapping)

Let’s get the definition of “to blow smoke” which is basically to deceive others.  I don’t think that there is any deception in this thread just a bunch of opinions formed by a bunch of cattle people from the experiences they are having with their cattle programs. 

quite or quit? Really Jody makes more sense if you at least use the correct word. 

A definition of “truth” is fact, the definition of fact is “something that actually exists” which makes me think that “the truth” is an awful user name for you since you are someone that has nothing positive to say with no factual basis about anything not even your own program (or lack thereof). 

really?  Is that the best thing you could find to nit pick my posts?  I tell you what, just for that.. i'll change my user name.. Just for you!

What is this site for but to blow smoke and self promote...  ;D

\true, true :

For the record though, using Jaimie's definition of blowing smoke, I don't blow smoke. I have nothing to gain in deceiving anybody when it comes to my operation. Why do you think we always get buried in shows and can't sell a heifer for more than $2500? Probably because I don't blow smoke, oh, and I don't smoke blow either... I guess I was thinking of "blowing off steam" instead of blowing smoke. So I guess if you actually were calling me a liar, then you would be "false, truth". 

No, I'm giving you a hard time, for stealing that bull that I had my eyes on, lived too far away from, and didn't act quick enough on...  You are one of the most interesting shorthorn breeders I have found as well Josh...  In a class of your own, you follow both crowds, and have been getting away with it quite well.. I seriously do wish you the best of luck- with the three herd sires you list... I think interesting things should come..

There's only 3 or 4 old (young) liars on here, and most of the time I don't even waste time reading their 'books', or looking at the pictures... 

I know you were.

 

[JTM]

I do think here is a possibility of gaining market share in the commercial bull market. If you have moderate framed cattle with least 3 generations of economical important traits. I think you will need to differeniate you product. They will need to be moderate. There are acres and acres of 1800 pound Shorthorn cows out there whose bull calves weigh 110# cows. They can eat 1 round bale aday a piece. I think the worm may turn eventually especially if the Angus cattle don't start watching cow size. jmo.....................It would be interesting to me to see data on how black exotic bulls have been selling. Are they accepted as a market share of commercial bulls or our they currently a fad? The black Limi,Simi,Gelbvieh and etc.

I agree with AJ, A&T, and Brock on this one. I also agree with some of what The Truth said but I do believe that Shorthorns are in a very interesting and exciting spot right now. If we can show that we have an outcross that can benefit the commercial Angus industry then we could be on to something. I think the Select Sires Shorthorn lineup is a step in the right direction and hopefully some black cow people will try some of those bulls. I can't imagine they are as good as the one I own and bought from Brock though...  <rock> (that one right up there on the left)

If complete was a Purebred and a frame score larger, I would bring good money to the table for an interest in the bull.  What I question is his usefulness as is.  As a crossbred, I don't see where he has any place on the seedstock side, and with his stature, I don't see him pounding out the weaning weights as a terminal sire.  I have a like concern with the red neck roan bull unbelievabull .   I was sky high on both bulls until seeing their relative lack of size compared to the black cows each is running with.    In what type operation do you see Complete's potential maximized?

Ryan, I can understand your concern about Complete not being a purebred. I definitely agree with Sue that you just need to see him in person though. I have never seen a purebred shorthorn bull like Complete and there is probably good reason. He is a unique bull that I believe could do a lot in the commercial scene. I currently have him running with a bunch of black cows. I am not an expert on telling frame score on animals but I would say he is a tick larger than CF Star Bucks, so I definitely would not call him small framed at all. I'm thinking it would be appropriate to put him closer to a 6 frame rather than a 5 frame. Sue may disagree and she would be a lot better at judging the size of him, but she hasn't seen him in a while though. I think that even though he is 3/4, you could still expect excellent hybrid vigor on crossbred cows from this bull. Unless you have very similar bloodlines already in your cowherd. I think to maximize Complete's potential he should be used in a commercial operation with black cows in the 5 to 6 frame range weighing from 1200 to 1500 lbs. I believe he could even create steers that could be marketed for show. Complete could also be used to thicken up some harder doing shorthorn cows with really long necks and not much substance behind them. I think the added fleshing ability would help create cow herds with the ability to hold their own in harsher environments. Ryan, thanks for your interest in the bull and I would just ask that you try using him and let me know how it worked out.
Josh

 

[rarebirdz]

There's only 3 or 4 old (young) liars on here, and most of the time I don't even waste time reading their 'books', or looking at the pictures... 

Ok u and? I haven't noticed any other liars young or old aside from u as ur not a shortie breeder or any sort of seedstock prodicer. Sour grapes should b ur user name

 

[RyanChandler]

I have never seen a purebred shorthorn bull like Complete and there is probably good reason. He is a unique bull
Josh

He looks good for sure.  If Sue will recall, in a phone call, I said, "what I'm looking for is a Purebred "Complete." 
Is any one out there using him in an upgrading program?

 

[jaimiediamond]

I know that Complete has a maternal brother that is a purebred.  I haven't seen any recent pictures but Brock (TGCC) might be able to provide more information about him.  <beer>

 

[kfacres]

I have never seen a purebred shorthorn bull like Complete and there is probably good reason. He is a unique bull
Josh

He looks good for sure.  If Sue will recall, in a phone call, I said, "what I'm looking for is a Purebred "Complete."   
Is any one out there using him in an upgrading program?

it only will take one more generation, to 'paper' and show as a purebred... of course in reality, it will never be pure... 

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Wow did this thread get interesting. I appreciate everyones comments and concerns about Complete. I have not seen him in awhile but when he left here, he was for sure bigger then 329. Yes, I do have a purebred maternal brother to Complete sired by 329. I dont have any recent pics of him right now but I can see a pasture walk comin soon. I cant remember if he was 82 or 85 lbs at birth. I need to go look. I dont think he will turn out just like Complete. He is built a little different. I would say he will be shorther then Complete too.  I plan on breeding several durham reds, some Shoshone/ OCC angus cows and some 3/4 shorties to Complete in the next few years to satisfy my curiosity. I have lots of semen on Completes sire as well, so yes I will be using him in a upgrading deal.

Complete has been the most enjoyable calf I have ever watched grow up. He was a stud from the moment he was born. He always stood out here. His calf crop had Eagle 192 grandsons, Byland Mission, Downtown Ave 930, Mel Bar 347, GAR Predestined, Rito 6I6, GAR Integrity(yea I know he sucks) and Quaker Hill Objective 3J15. They all became freezer beef. Not they were awful, they finished good enough for sure. He just blew them away on grass. I thought we may have somethin at this point

I own Completes mother with my friend Joe. Rolling Rock Acres in Mt Vernon , Ohio. This bull calf I believe will be for sale unless Joe wants him. He will have the final say on this calf. I have a pic of the purebred calf from last spring. I will get some new ones soon.

I have been asked lately if I have flushed Completes mother or bred her back the same way. The answer is no. IMO she has not earned her way to be a donor and she still has a ways to go. I bred her to 329 and was doing my heifer dance but got a bull. She is rebred to 329. I gotta try one more time! She has had 3 calves so far. 2 will be herd bulls. I will breed her back to Completes sire hopefully in the future or better yet a daughter of hers sired by 329. At least in my little fantasy island that is the plan.

 

[JTM]

I have never seen a purebred shorthorn bull like Complete and there is probably good reason. He is a unique bull
Josh

He looks good for sure.  If Sue will recall, in a phone call, I said, "what I'm looking for is a Purebred "Complete."   
Is any one out there using him in an upgrading program?

it only will take one more generation, to 'paper' and show as a purebred... of course in reality, it will never be pure... 

Ryan, I do plan on using him on some purebreds maybe as early as this fall/winter for next year. With one breeding his daughters and sons would be 7/8 and able to be bred one more time to purebreds in order to get the purebred papers. I think his kind would do the Shorthorn breed some good. I can't imagine it would be downgrading.JMO.

 

[kfacres]

and so my below average shorthorn luck will continue...

Our best cow (first one to calve every year, raises the biggest/ best calf, never sold a calf from her, of either sex, etc,. etc...  found dead 2 days ago at 7 or 8 years old.  Good thing we had a life insurance policy on here; and as part of the deal a vet had to be involved.  He thought as fast as she went down, with no sign- twisted stomach.  But we had to send her in to be posted, as per the insurance policy..

Lab reports back, that she's carrying twins, which are full term and ready to be born, due 9-1.  So how, the calves are rotating into position, and due to a lack of room- they somehow pinch off an artery, or nerve or something, and bam kills the cow instantely... 

If I didn't have terrible luck, I wouldn't have any at all....  Bad thing, we didn't have her insured for quite what she was worth in her life, nor did we have a compensation for the twins she was carrying, that we knew nothing about-- especially with the market it is right now...  But hey, something is FAR better than nothing...

To continue, I had only two straws of Mission semen, that I used on my best 2 cows... and this was one of them...

O well, atleast I've got 2 daughters of hers, and some granddaughters...