Shorty hf bulls

[turning grass into beef]

Redbulls; I knew we did not have many Ramrod daughters in production just yet, but I didn't realize how few until I looked at our records.
Ramrod was born in 2005. We used him on a few cows in 2006 and the majority of those calves were males.  In 2007 he got injured early in the breeding season so 2008 was the first year where a decent number of cows were bred to him.  Thus the resulting progeny are now only yearlings, so udder quality on Ramrod daughters is still unproven.  Knowing his sire and dam I would not expect any problems, but time will tell.  I will get some pictures when time permits and I will start a new thread.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

TGIB should also be acknowledged right there with the Dover Ranch. I think he knows a thing or two about linebreeding and using your best home raised bulls. He should be applauded as well. Ramrod is a hell of a bull IMO. In a long list of good bulls to come out of there.

aj, how many shorthorn breeders would it take to produce 3,00 bulls of that caliber a year? At the present time I would say about all of us should cover it. Since your in the heart of cattle country, can we hold the sale at your place? Mine just won't quite hold 3,000. :-\

 

[aj]

With the USA cow numbers down half a mill or whatever it is the bull deal will be tough.

 

[AG TEACHER]

I am not so sure that for the next couple of years that people with purebred cattle of any breed should just seriously consider a commercial program in their operation if they don't have one already. Judging from the sale reports of this fall and I mean the REAL ones not the fraudulent ones. The demand for cattle is way down!!! It is my thinking that it might be a good idea for breeders to sort the herd and cross breed. If the US beef herd number continues to drop we might as well sell some heterosis since the demand for a pedigree or project is not there! 

 

[r.n.reed]

Just finished reading an article on the Beef site.Aprox.900 respondents to a survey with herds avg.over 200 hd replied that their #1 consideration in selecting breeding stock was birthweight/calving ease.We as a breed should probably be breeding more than the heifers to these calving ease bulls.

 

[RedBulls]

TGIB should also be acknowledged right there with the Dover Ranch. I think he knows a thing or two about linebreeding and using your best home raised bulls. He should be applauded as well. Ramrod is a hell of a bull IMO. In a long list of good bulls to come out of there.

I fully agree! I have some females in my herd that were bred by Okotoks that I'm pleased with also.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

With the USA cow numbers down half a mill or whatever it is the bull deal will be tough.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe total cattle numbers are down over 10 million from the average. Around 31 million last I heard. 3 year decline. More cows in South America than ever before.
When times are tough you need to maximize profits. What better time to cross a shortie on a angus, baldy, sim angus, char angus etc, etc....
Those who have used this cross have come to love it. JMO

 

[sjcattleco]

Just finished reading an article on the Beef site.Aprox.900 respondents to a survey with herds avg.over 200 hd replied that their #1 consideration in selecting breeding stock was birthweight/calving ease.We as a breed should probably be breeding more than the heifers to these calving ease bulls.

I think it is more important to breed masculine bulls to femine females of a moderate frame and type and calving ease / BW problems will take care of it self.  If man actually  selects for it he ends up with poor performing frail  cattle and females that have low pelvic scores

 

[kfacres]

Just finished reading an article on the Beef site.Aprox.900 respondents to a survey with herds avg.over 200 hd replied that their #1 consideration in selecting breeding stock was birthweight/calving ease.We as a breed should probably be breeding more than the heifers to these calving ease bulls.

I think it is more important to breed masculine bulls to femine females of a moderate frame and type and calving ease / BW problems will take care of it self.  If man actually  selects for it he ends up with poor performing frail  cattle and females that have low pelvic scores

agree 100%...  serious problem that many people, partic the angus guys are doing

 

[sue]

REally a live calf is the # 1 concern in the beef world today 

 

[kfacres]

REally a live calf is the # 1 concern in the beef world today 

equally too small equals dead as well

 

[aj]

The truth.......what is to small? Is less than 80#'s to small? I think that there are two kind of management groups also. Those that bring 1st calf heifers into tight pens to watch calving and those that don't. When I calve my heifers out I have them in a tight pen situation. I breed them to fairly small bwt bulls and I figure on assisting 20% or so. I know a guy who used Homer on heifers,calved on cornstalks and never pulled one calf. Yet I have been told that Homer daughters have really small pelvic measurements. I think sjcattle has the best long term philosophy. Once you you have the big bwt deal in your bloodlines it can pop up 3 generations later even if you are working on improving the situation.jmo

 

[kfacres]

too small for the average cow is those 40-50-60 lb calves.. not saying they can't live.. but with a lack of body weight, especially in the cold... those calves just have a hard time staying warm.  80 lb  just fine for heifers, I might prefer 70's out of heifers. 

my biggest problem with low birth weight, is the counter balanced effects in the future to performance, mature frame size, pelvic size, and overall stoutness.  The smaller the birthweight, the smaller the head, and the smaller the bone. 

I promote using calving ease sires on heifers, and getting those little easily born calves-  my problem is when these heifer calves are retained, and then bred back calving ease/ retained for several generations....  doing this time after time.. will IMHO hurt your future..

I believe that mature cows, should be bred to larger BW bulls (but not extreme).  These should be your 'keeper' females.  Make those old cows work. 

 

[Okotoks]

I thought 7% of the cows weight was a rule of thumb for birth weights. That is a cow should be able to deliver a calf that was up to 7% of her weight without assistance.
      1000 lbs. - 70 lb.
       1200 lbs. - 84 lb.
       1500 lbs.- 105 lb.
      1800lbs. - 126 lb.
As well pelvic size should be a selection tool. I have seen some smaller cows deliver some pretty big calves on their own but they had a big pelvic structure.
                                                                           

 

[aj]

I wonder what the average shorthorn cow weighs in the U.S?

 

[Okotoks]

I wonder what the average shorthorn cow weighs in the U.S?

I think the average Shorthorn cow in Canada would be over 1400 lbs.

 

[aj]

I still have some 1400 cows. My new genetics are making them smaller. I wonder if alot of cows of any breed bang in at 1300 or so?

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

sure there are. go to Kenney's Corner.com and you can see lots of black cows weighing right in that neighborhood raising good calves. Even a red angus guy in Kansas on their aj that I think you would like. Dwight is his name. Steadfast Beef. Linebreeding some Beckton stuff.

 

[aj]

I think there are some big name Angus cattle bred for numbers that are very hard keepers out there. I think some focus is being put on this trait. But people still buy big fat bulls with the numbers at the sales. Then they tend to go heck a little bit on pasture.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I think there are some big name Angus cattle bred for numbers that are very hard keepers out there. I think some focus is being put on this trait. But people still buy big fat bulls with the numbers at the sales. Then they tend to go heck a little bit on pasture.

Your right on with that. IMO most of the big dogs breed for either this end of the spectrum or the Kit Pharo deal on the other end. Nobody wants to raise avg cows anymore accept the commercial guy. Everyone is chasing rarity. Gotta stick out and get everyones attention or your doomed in the con of the registered game.