Some herd sires from the past

[jaimiediamond]

So the weather is now cold, as in yesterday I was in the second coldest place in the world (not by choice).  Which means I spend as little time as humanly possible outside, giving me more time to dig through my fathers old catalogue collection.  I found the following pictures in Cecil Staples' Diamond Shorthorn dispersal sale catalogue 1976.

Thomas Leader 13C son of Kinnaber Leader 6th. 

Thomas Max 11Z

White Rock Cliff

Mandalong Super Elephant

Mandalong Royal Ferrari (my aunt and uncle have a calf coming by this bull 2011)


there was also Super Flag!!!

 

[stick]

Be nice to have them in a tank, and not just pictured in a catalog  ;D  I sense a JIT history lesson comin on

 

[knabe]

i like that thomas leader and the pheasant bull 1,2 the best.

 

[jaimiediamond]

i like that thomas leader and the pheasant bull 1,2 the best.

your picks are both by Kinnaber Leader 6th

 

[knabe]

hmmm

http://dmhoffroggecattle.com/hhfs_impossible_dream.htm

 

[thunderdownunder]

Great to see the Mandalong bulls Jaimie... I was out at Rick Pisaturo's last week and had an amazing history lesson with him. It was fantastic to walk through his office too and see all the great bulls.... Shorthorns, Charolais, Square Meaters, Chianinas, Tropicanas and Mandalong Specials.
He's just sent a shipment of 100 Mandalong Special heifers and 3 bulls to Russia.

Sorry, didn't mean to change the subject!!

 

[justintime]

So the weather is now cold, as in yesterday I was in the second coldest place in the world (not by choice).  Which means I spend as little time as humanly possible outside, giving me more time to dig through my fathers old catalogue collection.  I found the following pictures in Cecil Staples' Diamond Shorthorn dispersal sale catalogue 1976.

Thomas Leader 13C son of Kinnaber Leader 6th. 

Thomas Max 11Z

White Rock Cliff

Mandalong Super Elephant

Mandalong Royal Ferrari (my aunt and uncle have a calf coming by this bull 2011)


there was also Super Flag!!!

I am at Canadian Western Agribition right now, so I will keep this short. I remember all these bulls and each made a major impact in their day. Of these Thomas Leader 13C and Super Flag were my favorite's. I still have about 80 doses of Super Flag and I plan on using him in a few flushes soon. BTW, I had a nice flush of our Diamond Captain Mark 27C daughter, HC FL Elsie's J-Lo 3T x( she is a polled ET full sister to our Elsie's Jade donor) and we ended up with 14 grade 1 embryos by Cumberland Gay Lad. ( It is easy to see that this bull is from the past from his name.... no one in their right mind would name a bull this today)

Carla, I am pleased to hear your report on Rick Pisaturo. I have not seen him in a few years, and was actually wondering a few days ago if he was still breeding cattle. I used to run into Rick at Agribition and at Denver. Been a few years since I have seen him. Alta Genetics had a Manalong Special bull in their stud several years ago, and he was flat out good. He probably would not have made show cattle for today, but he certainly sired some powerful feeding cattle. Some days I really wonder about hiow much progress has happened in the breeding of "superior livestock". As I have said before, some of the genetics from the past are very useful today. Some others were bad then and bad today. Hopefully we can be smart enough to figure out where they fit in.

 

[stick]

Grant, Would be interested to hear your comments about these bulls when you have more time. Heres some irony, we once owned a bull from Reford and Doug sired by Top Notch who is out of Super Flag and out of a Vera Margaret cow by South Plain Galaxy who was sired by Lad.

 

[Okotoks]

Great to see the Mandalong bulls Jaimie... I was out at Rick Pisaturo's last week and had an amazing history lesson with him. It was fantastic to walk through his office too and see all the great bulls.... Shorthorns, Charolais, Square Meaters, Chianinas, Tropicanas and Mandalong Specials.
He's just sent a shipment of 100 Mandalong Special heifers and 3 bulls to Russia.

Sorry, didn't mean to change the subject!!

Many years ago after my brother in law imported Mandalong Super Flag, Mandalong Royal Ferrari, Mandalong Roany 51st and Mandalong Roany 55th, Rick Pisaturo came to visit and look at our herds. He was very interesting then to visit with. I still remember him saying he liked a little brisket on a cow as it showed she would be a good feed converter and survive in tough conditions.
I always liked the Thomas Leader 13C bull and we had some really good daughters of him. Mandalong Royal Ferrai was an exteremly linebred bull carrying crosses of Meriwong Royal Grant. He was overshadowed by Super Flag at the time but left some really good daughters. One that we bred more recently(1994) was Diamond Secret Delight that did quite a good job at Muridale. The calf Jaimie mentioned due next year is going to be out of a really good Northern Legend 3N heifer. It will be interesting to see the result!

 

[jaimiediamond]

Attached is the picture of Miami Baron 20B.  He is the bull I have my female Diamond Julie Baroness 8J AI'ed to (avatar cow). I attached his pedigree as ASA doesn't have his dam's line online.
 
          T P S PRIMESTON CORONET X-[US]2931363-  
    L P P JUGGLER'S PRIMESTON 3RD X-M409642-    
          L P P BERK JUGGLER X-[US]2988770-  
  OLIVE GROVE SNOWSTORM X-M427242-      
          Q K COMPACT X-M385517-  
     OLIVE GROVE CLARET 18S X-F527654-    
          OLIVE GROVE CLARET 1P X-F504962-  

MIAMI BARON 20B       (May 1970) 
     
         BESSIE'S RAMBLER X-M324629-  
     CRUSADER X-M343962-    
         BONNIE ROSE 3 X-F335854-  
  BARONESS 3RD X-F492183-     (1957) 
         STOCKWELL BRIGADIER X-M288610-  
    CRANSEY'S BARONESS X-F393061-    
         ROSE CRANSEY 2 -F316713-  

 

[Okotoks]

Attached is the picture of Miami Baron 20B.  He is the bull I have my female Diamond Julie Baroness 8J AI'ed to (avatar cow). I attached his pedigree as ASA doesn't have his dam's line online.
 
          T P S PRIMESTON CORONET X-[US]2931363-  
    L P P JUGGLER'S PRIMESTON 3RD X-M409642-    
          L P P BERK JUGGLER X-[US]2988770-  
  OLIVE GROVE SNOWSTORM X-M427242-      
          Q K COMPACT X-M385517-  
     OLIVE GROVE CLARET 18S X-F527654-    
          OLIVE GROVE CLARET 1P X-F504962-  

MIAMI BARON 20B       (May 1970) 
     
         BESSIE'S RAMBLER X-M324629-  
     CRUSADER X-M343962-    
         BONNIE ROSE 3 X-F335854-  
  BARONESS 3RD X-F492183-     (1957) 
         STOCKWELL BRIGADIER X-M288610-  
    CRANSEY'S BARONESS X-F393061-    
         ROSE CRANSEY 2 -F316713-  

The Baroness 3rd cow was in the Dave Ball, Ball Dee herd ,the same herd that produced Ball Dee Perfect Count. Only four of her offspring show up in the electronic herdbook at CLRC but she produced until she was 13 and Maimi Baron 20B was her last calf. He was not a big bull compared to the likes of Mandalong Super Flag. His grandsire came form LPP ,
JOHN R. LAWRENCE, ARROW ROCK, MO. Baroness 3rd was supposed to be a larger cow for her times.
Here are 4 of her offspring.
BALL DEE BARONESS X-F537609- Female

BALL DEE PERFECT BARONESS X-F546632- Female

BALL DEE SILVER BARONESS X-F562212- Female

MIAMI BARON 20B X-M431487- Male

 

[Okotoks]

Here are photos of two full brothers Kinnaber Leader 6th and Kinnaber Leader 9th> the 6th is the sire of Thomas Leader 13C and Pheasant Creek Leader 4th and the Coal Pitt Creak Leader bull. Sue has semen for sale on the Leader 9th bull.

 

[justintime]

Attached is the picture of Miami Baron 20B.  He is the bull I have my female Diamond Julie Baroness 8J AI'ed to (avatar cow). I attached his pedigree as ASA doesn't have his dam's line online.
 
          T P S PRIMESTON CORONET X-[US]2931363-  
    L P P JUGGLER'S PRIMESTON 3RD X-M409642-    
          L P P BERK JUGGLER X-[US]2988770-  
  OLIVE GROVE SNOWSTORM X-M427242-      
          Q K COMPACT X-M385517-  
     OLIVE GROVE CLARET 18S X-F527654-    
          OLIVE GROVE CLARET 1P X-F504962-  

MIAMI BARON 20B       (May 1970) 
     
         BESSIE'S RAMBLER X-M324629-  
     CRUSADER X-M343962-    
         BONNIE ROSE 3 X-F335854-  
  BARONESS 3RD X-F492183-     (1957) 
         STOCKWELL BRIGADIER X-M288610-  
    CRANSEY'S BARONESS X-F393061-    
         ROSE CRANSEY 2 -F316713-  

The Baroness 3rd cow was in the Dave Ball, Ball Dee herd ,the same herd that produced Ball Dee Perfect Count. Only four of her offspring show up in the electronic herdbook at CLRC but she produced until she was 13 and Maimi Baron 20B was her last calf. He was not a big bull compared to the likes of Mandalong Super Flag. His grandsire came form LPP ,
JOHN R. LAWRENCE, ARROW ROCK, MO. Baroness 3rd was supposed to be a larger cow for her times.
Here are 4 of her offspring.
BALL DEE BARONESS X-F537609- Female

BALL DEE PERFECT BARONESS X-F546632- Female

BALL DEE SILVER BARONESS X-F562212- Female

MIAMI BARON 20B X-M431487- Male

Dan, I doubt if there is any semen from Miami Baron 20B. I remember two of the sisters you mentioned, Perfect Baroness and Silver Baroness. I think Silver Baroness was the best one and she was a great one. I had two daughters of her and they were excellent producing daughters. IMO, the Baroness cow line is one of the great ones in the breed.

 

[Okotoks]

Attached is the picture of Miami Baron 20B.  He is the bull I have my female Diamond Julie Baroness 8J AI'ed to (avatar cow). I attached his pedigree as ASA doesn't have his dam's line online.
 
          T P S PRIMESTON CORONET X-[US]2931363-  
    L P P JUGGLER'S PRIMESTON 3RD X-M409642-    
          L P P BERK JUGGLER X-[US]2988770-  
  OLIVE GROVE SNOWSTORM X-M427242-      
          Q K COMPACT X-M385517-  
     OLIVE GROVE CLARET 18S X-F527654-    
          OLIVE GROVE CLARET 1P X-F504962-  

MIAMI BARON 20B       (May 1970) 
     
         BESSIE'S RAMBLER X-M324629-  
     CRUSADER X-M343962-    
         BONNIE ROSE 3 X-F335854-  
  BARONESS 3RD X-F492183-     (1957) 
         STOCKWELL BRIGADIER X-M288610-  
    CRANSEY'S BARONESS X-F393061-    
         ROSE CRANSEY 2 -F316713-  

The Baroness 3rd cow was in the Dave Ball, Ball Dee herd ,the same herd that produced Ball Dee Perfect Count. Only four of her offspring show up in the electronic herdbook at CLRC but she produced until she was 13 and Maimi Baron 20B was her last calf. He was not a big bull compared to the likes of Mandalong Super Flag. His grandsire came form LPP ,
JOHN R. LAWRENCE, ARROW ROCK, MO. Baroness 3rd was supposed to be a larger cow for her times.
Here are 4 of her offspring.
BALL DEE BARONESS X-F537609- Female

BALL DEE PERFECT BARONESS X-F546632- Female

BALL DEE SILVER BARONESS X-F562212- Female

MIAMI BARON 20B X-M431487- Male

Dan, I doubt if there is any semen from Miami Baron 20B. I remember two of the sisters you mentioned, Perfect Baroness and Silver Baroness. I think Silver Baroness was the best one and she was a great one. I had two daughters of her and they were excellent producing daughters. IMO, the Baroness cow line is one of the great ones in the breed.

We still have a few vials of Miami Baron 20B left. I think Dad had most of it destroyed way back when Prairie Breeders was bought out by Independent Breeders. Jaimie is excited as Diamond Julie Baroness 8J is bred to him for a mid May calf. 8J goes back to the Ball Dee Silver Baroness cow.(5 generations!) We had flushed 8J to Super Flag first. When we preg checked a few weeks ago she was one of the ones the vet said was open so we took her back to Alta Embryo for one last flush and found out she was in calf right to her AI date.(same deal with Temperature Rising's dam, 4 months in calf) guess we will never know about the other 7 we shipped.

 

[Okotoks]

I am at Canadian Western Agribition right now, so I will keep this short. I remember all these bulls and each made a major impact in their day. Of these Thomas Leader 13C and Super Flag were my favorite's. I still have about 80 doses of Super Flag and I plan on using him in a few flushes soon. BTW, I had a nice flush of our Diamond Captain Mark 27C daughter, HC FL Elsie's J-Lo 3T x( she is a polled ET full sister to our Elsie's Jade donor) and we ended up with 14 grade 1 embryos by Cumberland Gay Lad. ( It is easy to see that this bull is from the past from his name.... no one in their right mind would name a bull this today)

That is an exciting flush JIT!
Back in the 60"s we had a bull Rothney Charles and he was sired by a bull named Sangamon Gay Lad! The Sangamon bull was a pretty big bull for his day.
Using Cumberland Gay Lad leads me to ask about Charlie Campbell and his herd? Charlie had selected for some pretty good carcass catlle.

 

[justintime]

I had a visit with Charlie Campbell at Agribition last Friday. He still looks good for being in his 80s. I think his cows are all gone now, with the exception of a few his nephew runs on a commercial basis. Charlie has been stone deaf for several years and it is very hard to visit with him. I tried to ask him some questions but his answers had nothing to do with what I asked about.  I do wish this man was in his 30s rather than his 80s, as we could use more breeders like him. He was one of the most progressive thinkers I ever met, even when he was at the end of his career. He collected carcass data on his herd for over 30 years, and he had advanced the carcass quality in his herd without sacrificing the maternal traits in his herd. He never was a man to follow the crowd but he did things his own way. When I used to work on the Canadian Shorthorn Report magazine in Regina, I used to oftentimes, run out and go through Charlie's pasture as it was about 8 miles west of the Exhibition grounds in Regina. There were some excellent cows there.

I remember Cumberland Gay Lad when he was the senior herdsire at South Plain. We thought he was a giant in those days, and he probably was for that day. Charlie told me once that he weighed 2500 lbs when he was 8 years old. I guarantee that his weight came from his massive body and not from his hip height. He was a tank of a bull, and he sired the top gaining set of Shorthorn bulls at the U of S Test Station every year he had sons entered there. On two occasions Charlie's Group of Gay Lad sons were top gaining group over all breeds. If my memory is correct one set of bulls topped the bull test at 4.12 lbs/ day. One of his top gaining groups, consisting of 5 Gay Lad sons averaged over $2500 in the early 70s. I still have about a dozen vials of Gay Lad semen left, and I will be using it all in more flushes.

 

[coyote]

Here are a couple pictures of our Gay Lad sons that we had this year. I thought the calves would of been smaller framed, but they both compare very well with our other calves. They are very long with big testicles. Their Adjusted 205 day wt were 651 lbs and 659 lbs, our bulls averaged 650.

 

[thunderdownunder]

Here are a couple pictures of our Gay Lad sons that we had this year. I thought the calves would of been smaller framed, but they both compare very well with our other calves. They are very long with big testicles. Their Adjusted 205 day wt were 651 lbs and 659 lbs, our bulls averaged 650.

They're some pretty handy calves... the top one looks like he'll turn a few heads.

 

[r.n.reed]

Wait till word gets out the Canadians are  using an American bred bull! Does anyone  know anything about the George Knox herd?I saw a son of Weston Surprise 14th a couple months ago that looks real good to me.The 14th was out of the same cow as the Lad and carried a lot of the Knox breeding.Weston Shamrock also was bred similar.

 

[sue]

Here are a couple pictures of our Gay Lad sons that we had this year. I thought the calves would of been smaller framed, but they both compare very well with our other calves. They are very long with big testicles. Their Adjusted 205 day wt were 651 lbs and 659 lbs, our bulls averaged 650.

They do look nice and I think 650 is a good place to be for an adjusted 205 too.

I dont know if Weston Shamrock is really what the paper says... the bull was possibly a "misprint" .

What I have appreciated most about digging up old material with steers on feed and such - is even then the test was smart enough to take a close look at #  DAYS ON FEED AND NOT just who gained 4 lbs/day.