Starting a new Shorthorn Association for Cattle Breeders

[knabe]

but if you have 8 years of kill sheets with favorable data on them a ceo might sit up and listen. I assume a end product is meat to eat. I don't have a clue where you are going now knabe.

that's different than a pen at a show.  you also need more than a few hundred head.

at some level, there is plenty of product at all levels of quality.  probably the key is to make a profit rather than worry about creating a product that already exists.  to me, that means feed conversion while retaining quality.  it doesn't really even matter what breed it is.  the more pounds you sell with less feed or input costs seems to be more important than starting a new breed.  i mean why even waste the time if you have it.  your product will be sold out until you reach a critical mass where selling to other producers starts netting even more profit.

 

[aj]

Point taken......there are acres and acres of breeds.......and cattle out there. The Angus differentiated there product. 90% of start up companies go broke. Starting a new breed would most likely be un spectacular......it would be running around the tree thre times for nothing. I would say that 90% of purebred herds are less than profitable. Running around the tree three times for nothing. I always thought a test of worth would be........."if your breed disapeared over night......would the beef industry notice?" If not.......why have a breed?. I would say...to try and manuever into a position to be viable in the industry.......or just show cattle and trade them between each other. Sometimes the jouney is better than the desitination.

 

[RyanChandler]

And don't worry, I report ALL my info.

is it possible to do that is you are not a member?

I take the same approach as I do with my taxes- I file tax exempt till the end and then write a check for my obligation.  Glad you're looking out for me though.

 

[knabe]

I wouldn't want the government to have access to your tax dollars on a paycheck to paycheck or quarterly basis. That would be too hypocritical and besides, people who disagree with you how tax dollars are spent should be footing the bill, not you.

As for association dues, it's a good thing you don't pay in advance. The association is populated by people with courage to run and get elected and shouldn't be supported by your dues because everyone else should and not you. It wouldn't be fair for someone to pay with as much constructive criticism as you ahead of time.  Everyone else should pay, not you. I always like buying cattle from people who are as fair minded as you. It's what keeps associations going.

 

[Steve Hamilton]

Thinking about starting a new shorthorn association.This one would be friendly to the cow breeder.Not charge for registering bulls.No testing .Honor system which I think is still around.Could make it World Wide.Anythoughts or Partners.As long as parents have a registration number they can be entered.Must be Red, White or Roan. Any Thoughts. Any Names.Shorthorn Universal Association?



[yes we just call it 100% shorthorn ]

 

[NHR]

I kind of read most of the replies. Here is a question I have.

What is it that you find wrong with the American Shorthorn Association? Be specific and list out your grievances.

 

[aj]

I don't think of the association as doing anything bad. The black hided hurt the Shorthorns alot. I WAS disappointed in how the Durham Red deal burnt out. I remember when Bolz set the thing up and then plus cattle would be allowed to show in shows. I envisoned 30 head of Durham Red entries showing up. They would have genetic defect free cattle with manatory reporting. I could just envision cattle people edging around the ring to see these magnificent cattle that looked kinda like Red Angus......guess I really like Red Angus influence. Instead the Shorthorn plus ended up being more a black hided deal with th and pha carriers all over the place. It's not right or wrong......just the way the showring people took it.

 

[aj]

The Red Angus breed set up some kind of grid master program for cattle who excelled in the feedlot. If the Shorthorns started this i might be interesting. Very few people would try it but larger breeders like Lovings and Lauer might try and run some feedlot pens at it. It would be good advertising if we did start qualitying pens.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I kind of read most of the replies. Here is a question I have.

What is it that you find wrong with the American Shorthorn Association? Be specific and list out your grievances.

This is what I gathered. The EPD's and anything they stand for are bogus and it would take a complete revamping for anything to have validity. The assoc was run by a few big wigs or cash cows that the assoc coddled. The epd database is easily manipulated or has been. And last but not least, the dues being paid are not providing any return to the breeder. 80% of angus dues go to promotion. I think that's a joke to but they get the word out. What % does the ASA devout to promotion? I don't have a clue. The junior program is a good thing in general teaching life lessons but I guess it stops at teaching viable genetics in the real world. No priority placed on low input, profit generating cattle. Those aren't cool or deemed show ring worthy. That's a shame to me. For a kid to succeed in the show ring they not only need to wake the rooster up daily, wear out two brushes on a steer, they have to pour the coal in show feed to it. Getting the calf hog fat and taking more profits from the junior. This relates back to genetics and what is cool. We almost teach our children a real life lesson. Instead we go for broke to just win baby. At all costs. Just win.

Sorry, got off on a rant. The first few things were things I've been told. Then I just kinda right turn Clyde and went on a tangent.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I don't think of the association as doing anything bad. The black hided hurt the Shorthorns alot. I WAS disappointed in how the Durham Red deal burnt out. I remember when Bolz set the thing up and then plus cattle would be allowed to show in shows. I envisoned 30 head of Durham Red entries showing up. They would have genetic defect free cattle with manatory reporting. I could just envision cattle people edging around the ring to see these magnificent cattle that looked kinda like Red Angus......guess I really like Red Angus influence. Instead the Shorthorn plus ended up being more a black hided deal with th and pha carriers all over the place. It's not right or wrong......just the way the showring people took it.

I think your ideas of what coulda been are great. Unfortunately, you live in cow country. I live in club calf country. Nobody here gives a frogs fat ass about low input, real world cattle. They want hair. Bone. Depth. Width. Goose neck. Moves like a cat. Blah blah blah. Breed your heatwaves to Ali then back to monopoly.  I get it. It's where the money is. Money rules. But I always go to the fair and the difference between the haves and the have nots is big. The home bred angus x that has no ass vs the lautner bred whale assed calves.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I did see a Connealy Consesus calf. What's all the fuss? Frail looking. Nothing about the calf I thought was great. Just avg.

 

[RyanChandler]

Excellent points Brock.  And until mandatory reporting in enacted, the EPDs will always be bogus.  From what I read and hear, I propose the ASA emulate the Canadian Assoc in terms of registration criteria and eligibility.  Quit giving Maines 3/4 status.  Drop the plus program except for as a means of upgrading. Publicly encourage breeders to dump negative epd cattle.  I appreciated Jake Alden's article in SC last month.  The junior program?  Well I don't know just how much that has to do with functional beef cattle or with the advancement of the breed.  The sole purpose of purebred cattle is to provide purebred bulls for the commercial cattleman.  The governing thought when spending even one penny of the association's money should be, "what benefit do these actions have on the commercial acceptability of shorthorn cattle."  Everything else is secondary.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

To me, all junior programs should be top priority. It is after all, our children who must continue what we build. They also need to know how to turn a profit. IMO successful outfits don't need a "show barn" with 400 fans blowing air that's being pumped in by a air conditioner. What a waste of resources on every level. And for what? More hair to hide flaws. It's a hobby. It's just the show ring. Calm down.



Ughhhhhh. I guess that's the beauty of America still. You teach your kids what you deem important. I'll teach mine.

I've heard to many stories of some "lot 1" calf that ends up at the sale barn. I'm not going with the flow no more.

 

[nate53]

Mandatory reporting?  Are you all talking just purebred's or anything shorthorn sired?

 

[caledon101]

Not sure how to effectively enforce "mandatory" reporting. I would rather have good, honest data that was submitted by a dedicated breeder than a bunch of guesstimates from producers who have no weigh scales or interest in record keeping.
As for shows.....when I walk through the show barns I find it wonderful to see entire families working together and enjoying time together. To see kids engaged in this activity instead of hanging around shopping malls or getting into trouble is excellent. Kids need hobbies and interests to keep them busy.
The cost to exhibit cattle has become prohibitive though. It was never cheap but it is getting out of reach for some. The technology and the constant evolution of new supplies and expertise required to compete and win would put the Westminister Dog Show people to shame.

 

[knabe]

And until mandatory reporting in enacted, the EPDs will always be bogus.

bogus.  gigo. 

 

[RyanChandler]

Mandatory reporting?  Are you all talking just purebred's or anything shorthorn sired?

All registered calves.

 

[knabe]

What 10 bulls would you like reporting on that you need information on to make decisions that would help you?

 

[nate53]

Mandatory reporting?  Are you all talking just purebred's or anything shorthorn sired?

All registered calves.

It seems to me that if a producer wants to sell purebred bulls and females, they should collect performance data on their own cattle.  This would backup the product they are wanting to sell with actual #'s, so in other words they would be helping themselves.  People like seeing information with the animals they are buying.  This would also help the producer make decisions in their own herd as to what is and isn't working.  Then the association should make this information easily available to fellow breeders (for breeding decisions) and to potential customers (advertising). 

My problem with mandatory reporting is that a chunk of people are just going to make up part of the #'s.  So I agree with mandatory reporting but I believe it should be self imposed (not enforced by the association). 

One of my gripes with the association (shorthorn).  I wanted to submit carcass data (kill sheets from the plant) from some shorthorn sired calves, but the only way they wanted it was if I registered all the commercial momma cows for $12 a piece.  So basically they wanted to charge me for doing them a favor.  So I did not do it.  This was like a year ago, maybe things are changing I dunno. 

 

[knabe]

undoing sharp pencils takes more time than just incentivizing the people who want to collect data.

there must be a reason they wanted the commercial cows registered other than the $12/head.  did you ask them?