Success with Lutalyse?

[mlk32]

In the past few weeks, I  have administered a total of 9 doses of Lute to a combination of heifers, open cows and nursing cows.  So far, I have had exactly two cycle for me-one heifer and one open cow.  Externally, they all appear in good health and have Crystalix Brigade lick tubs. 

Might I be expecting too much by only using Lute?  Could I have a bad technique in administering the drug? 

I know a call to the vet for an internal check may be in order but thought maybe I should be more patient.  Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[shortyjock89]

We have used Lutalyse for the past 5 years or so, and it works really well for us.  The timing of the shot plays a role in how sucessful your efforts are.  If you administer a shot too soon after the cow or heifer cycles, short cycling occurs.  This is probably a silly question, but are you feeding any cottonseed hulls to the ladies? Cottonseed is known to affect the reproductive systems of female cattle i.e. not cycling.  I sure hope I'm not wrong..Sorry if I messed up again everyone haha!  K another question...how and where are you administering the Lutalyse? We give it Intramuscular in the neck, or if we have a squirrely one, in the hip. 

 

[CAB]

  What is your gold, or total protocal as far as what you are trying to achieve? Need some more detail as to what you are hoping will happen by shooting just lute. Might need some more steps to get the results that you are aiming @. Cab

 

[DL]

We have used Lutalyse for the past 5 years or so, and it works really well for us.  The timing of the shot plays a role in how sucessful your efforts are.  If you administer a shot too soon after the cow or heifer cycles, short cycling occurs.  This is probably a silly question, but are you feeding any cottonseed hulls to the ladies? Cottonseed is known to affect the reproductive systems of female cattle i.e. not cycling.  I sure hope I'm not wrong..Sorry if I messed up again everyone haha!  K another question...how and where are you administering the Lutalyse? We give it Intramuscular in the neck, or if we have a squirrely one, in the hip. 

boy that kid is smart! ;D like he says but also....
if it is real hot you may not see heat
did you put chalk or kmars or estrus alert patches on the cows?

there needs to be a functioning CL for the lutalyse to lyse, resulting in a change of hormone levels and heat - so for about 30% of the cycle the cows will be nonresponsive (like from day 0 heat to day 6 or so) so if you happened to hit the wrong time you wouldn't get any heats

I like the co-synch plus cidr synch program - I can send it to you but basically it is a time breeding program  -CIDR and GNRH; day 7 remove CIDR give lutalyse; some number of hours later (66 for cows and less for heifers) time breed & give GNRH (I also heat detect.) It works great and eliminates almost all the cows that lutalyse alone wouldn't synch

should be given in the muscle - wear gloves
hope that helps......dl

 

[CAB]

  I agree with DL's protocal totally, but my experience has been better with visual heat detection after pulling cidr's than time breeding. I have done both for different reasons, and coception rates for time breeding verses visual breeding off heat will be 55-60% for TIA verses 75-85% for visual observation.  Try to get to be a great heat detector & you will have great success AIing. Pay attention to small details and figure out in your mind what is going on with each animal. When they quit fussing and fighting around and go into, what I call a calm period after being in standing heat, that is the time to inseminate. We all breed by rules of thumb, and sometimes it's what we have to do for different reasons, but there is nothing better than being there making the critical reads.
  What size needles are your injecting your drigs with?I like 1 1/2in needles. Cab

 

[mlk32]

Thanks for the input everyone.  Two goals/reasons for the Lute.  I have not observed heat in three cows that calved over six weeks ago.  The vet recommended trying Lute to see if that might "jump start" them as he said before he pays a farm visit.  The other goal with the Lute was to work on some syncing.  My intent was to then AI on the cow's next natural heat cycle.  I was told the AI success rate is better with natural heat.

I observe for about 30 minutes in the early morning and again in the late evening just before sunset.  I do use Kamars on all of them.  This is my second breeding season with these gals so I have had a chance to start to understand their individual quirks but I suspect I have room for improvement. 

As for feed, good old NW Ohio hay, pasture and the lick tubs. 

I injected all IM in the neck.  Admittedly, I don't know what size needles but I will check.  They are  whatever the vet left for me last year.

 

[DL]

HEY MLK -
HOCKEY BET - NEXT YEAR - YOU ON??

CIDRs will jump start most beef cows in good condition

Most of the "evidence" on AI success (not all) is based on dairy cows - I don't know if there is any evidence that natural heats are better than "unnatural" - but it is the dogma - I haven't found it true with my herd - but like you say each cow has her own quirks - I had a heifer this year that just by her behavior(and LOUD!!)  I thought she would be standing -that night - didn't see anything, no marks on the estrus alert - and in the am she was quiet as can be - I palpated her - she felt good, she had a follicle, I bred her, she is pregnant (but I didn't use the high priced semen - really like to see 'em stand) - so like CAB says it is the art as well as the science. Also had a cow - 2 years in a row time bred her - 2 days later she is standing (bred her again) don't knkow which one stuck - was ready for her this year and she didn't stand 2 days later! Go figure.  Once when I only had a couple of cows I bred one "by the look in her eye" - she stuck (last year bred on by the look in her eye and she didn't)

Anyhow, I'll send you the protocols - with a limited and sometime decrepit labor force I have found they work good! Good luck and keep the faith....dl

 

[shortyjock89]

Natural heats are great if you can keep close enough watch on them..but by using the CIDR protocol, we increased our pregnancies by AI by about 25% (from about 65% to 90%).  This major jump could be because we are getting better at the AI thing, or because the CIDR protocol worked wonders with our cows, or a combo.  I'm bettin on the combo. 

Oh, and DL- I might be coming to you for some help on homework when I get to college this fall...I can't wait to be a vet....only 8 more years, I think haha.

 

[CAB]

  mlk32, you will do fine. The protocals that DL sends you will help you alot. I have tried many over the last 2 decades, and the one that seems to work best for me right now is 2mls Gnrh @ insertion of the cidr, pull cidrs @ a full 7 days along with a shot of 5mls of lute, and then visually AI on an individual basis. If I don't see a cow standing she gets pasted over until the next time. Last year we settled 100% of the cows AI. Out of 24 hd cidred settled 17 on 1st cycle in 48 hrs. Pulled cidrs on a thursday afternoon, started breeding Sunday evening. Had 2 cows lose their cidrs,1 still came in, rebred & settled 5 cows approx. 3 weeks later. I like setting up the cattle for a weekend breeding schedule because I can dedicate the time totally to the cows,, work during the week. Set up 10 virgin heifers for a neighbor over last weekend holiday. One lost her cidr & had a rectal prolaspe ,but out of the remaining 9 head we bred 8 in 12 hrs starting Sunday morning, done by Sunday night. I also like to pull any thing that I get a good read off of. This seems to make it easier to keep track of the rest and allows the more timid cattle to express themselves better. What I was saying about the needles was that if the drug calls for IM, make sure the shot gets put in IM via 11/2 in, if it says SQ, same thing goes 1 in needle SQ. It's all about all the little things that you can do. These new protocals are amazing, but nothing beats the artistry of a great heat detector. I've bred cows for alot of people, and it's all about the heat detection and paying attention to the details. IMO heat detection far out weighs the tech. Good luck and hang in there, if you like breeding cattle, you'll get to be good @ everything that we all talk about on these boards. Study DL's info and pick one that fits you. Cab

 

[CAB]

mlk32, forgot to mention that 6 wks post calving is a push. We started calving basicly Apr. 4th and are just now noticing alot of cows cycling regularly. The length of the days has more to do with heifers, cows cycling than what is talked about, IMO. They say cows will be cycling in 40 days, but more of a norm would be closer to 60 days under pasture conditions IMO. Cab

 

[shorthorns r us]

there was a post a while back about a slightly different protocol.  does anyone remember the details? seems like cidrs were pulled at 5 days with an injection followed by another on day 7. that post reported good results.

 

[red]

MLK- w/ your problems you had this year w/ aborts & Queenie, I'd get all the gals checked out throughly. It just doesn't make me comfortable w/ the other issues.

Red

 

[steers4u]

The protocal was developed by Dr. Mike Day at Ohio State.
Day o CIDR in and shot of Gnrh
Day 5 pull Cidr and shot of Lute
12 Hours later second shot of Lute
Heat check from first shot
At 24 to 28 hours after 1st shot mass breed  and give a shot of Gnrh
we have had severl breeders use this with what appears good sucess this spring. They went to the OSU web site and contacted Dr. Day direct. He clains about a 15% increase in preg rate from this protocal.