THE MAN WHO DISCOVERED DIVIDEND_AND NEWER POSTS WITH DIVIDEND INFLUENCED CATTLE

[justintime]

Grahams dispersed their Minnesota herd in the 70's.  I think the sale averaged just over 3,000 and at the time, I thought it would be the highest averaging Shorthorn sale I would ever attend.  They acquired a few cows later, I bought a Columbus son out of a Lago's Cache Winner daughter a few years after the sale.  Ayatollah also appeared later.  I think the reason you see the Indiana address on a few Graham bred cattle is because after the boys left home, Barry Jordan kept some cows for them. 

You are correct in saying the Indiana address was some cows that Mark Graham Jr, purchased and had at Waukaru in a joint venture with them. Both Mark Jr. and Kevin Graham became Doctors and I haven't seen either of them for some time.
The Graham dispersal brings back many memories. I remember it taking over 1 hour to sell Columbus and almost that long to sell Great White Hope. They would actually stop the auction to allow different breeders to get their heads together and try to form partnerships to buy these bulls. At that time, Eldon Krebs was working for Millbrook ( R Lee Johnson) and at one point in the sale of Great White Hope, we had partnered to buy him. We chased him to $8000 and then decided to back away. If we had been able to buy him, we were going to call our partnership Hope Like Hell Cattle Co.

I also remember Mark Graham phoning me one day and trying to convince me to partner with him to buy a bull named GR Dreamboat. Dreamboat was selling the next day, and Mark really wanted to buy him. I was not interested in any way, shape or form but I did ask him what he thought it would take to buy him. Mark thought we could probably buy him if we each put up $40,000 which would have made him bring $80,000. When I told him I was not interested, he even offered to pay for the bull and he would allow me to pay my share over a period of time.  I was still not interested. Those were interesting times.....
I tried to buy some cows that day, but the ones I wanted sold for pretty good money .. for that time. I did end up buying a son of Columbus named County Seat. He grew into a huge bull, and I ended up not using him much as we were pretty stacked with herd sires at that time. I eventually sold him to a commercial man who ran mostly Hereford cows, and he sired some amazing daughters. He had some of the best brockle faced cows in this country and they had flawless udders and milked well.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Ransom and Marc IV were raised by R. Lee Johnson of Ohio.  Clark and Columbus were raised by Graham Land and Livestock in Minnesota.  In reard to my eariler comment that the Guiness calves we had were a little three pieced, I meant they appeared to be divided into sections, head and neck, shoulders, and rear end and none of the parts fit together smoothly. 

I went back and looked at the pedigrees after you replied. They have Graham Land and Livestock in Rensallaer, Indiana. Also, I was able to pin down why I thought those bulls came from my county. Columbus came from a "Guckian" cow (Eaton, Ohio) and Clark also goes back to a Guckian cow as the grandam. My grandmother grew up near the old Guckian farm and I believe my wife is related to some Guckian's. I will have to look into that some more.
Trevor Guy Cattle Co. , I guess the rumor goes that the R. Lee Johnson bulls may have been out of Maine Anjou cows, bulls, or been purebred Maine Anjou. I have no clue but I can remember some question about G NINE or G9, which one I don't know. It would be interesting to visit and talk to him about the history of his herd and those three bulls. ///-From my experience-I would not trust anybody-or anybody associated with Eaton Ohio-as fraudulent a bunch as Ive ever encountered-as long as its 10 of them and one of you -COWARDS O0

 

[aj]

I don't know much about this deal but I thought Johnson was throwed out of the assc.. Again this is third hand knowledge on my part.

 

[JTM]

Ransom and Marc IV were raised by R. Lee Johnson of Ohio.  Clark and Columbus were raised by Graham Land and Livestock in Minnesota.  In reard to my eariler comment that the Guiness calves we had were a little three pieced, I meant they appeared to be divided into sections, head and neck, shoulders, and rear end and none of the parts fit together smoothly. 

I went back and looked at the pedigrees after you replied. They have Graham Land and Livestock in Rensallaer, Indiana. Also, I was able to pin down why I thought those bulls came from my county. Columbus came from a "Guckian" cow (Eaton, Ohio) and Clark also goes back to a Guckian cow as the grandam. My grandmother grew up near the old Guckian farm and I believe my wife is related to some Guckian's. I will have to look into that some more.
Trevor Guy Cattle Co. , I guess the rumor goes that the R. Lee Johnson bulls may have been out of Maine Anjou cows, bulls, or been purebred Maine Anjou. I have no clue but I can remember some question about G NINE or G9, which one I don't know. It would be interesting to visit and talk to him about the history of his herd and those three bulls. ///-From my experience-I would not trust anybody-or anybody associated with Eaton Ohio-as fraudulent a bunch as Ive ever encountered-as long as its 10 of them and one of you -COWARDS O0

Mark, not sure what to say to that reply. All I can affect is how I conduct my business and who I conduct business with. I know what you are referring to and I hope that you don't think of all people from around Eaton as fraudulent. Things are a little different from when you left. If you want to talk more please send me a private message.

 

[irishshorthorns]

hey DRB, Chapelton Liberty is from pre foot and mouth era, like most UK Shorthorns then , about 50% MA and 50% Shorthorn, the current Chapelton herd is all from  embyro project I put together for Mr Biggar... 28 donor cows and 12 sires... the best breeding bull in the UK is probably Chapelton Typhoon , http://www.chapeltonfarm.co.uk/home.html, also did their AA project. A number of these emybro bulls are now working in Ireland

 

Didn't a lot of these embryo cattle show up as being TH carrier animals and subsequently have to be culled by the Biggars? When I saw the pedigrees of the donor sires and dams it really stood out that there were a lot of "dirty" pedigrees and the potential for carrier calves and deformed progeny from the matings was great. If my memory serves didn,t the Royal Highland Show champion, Chapelton Toronto,  show up as a TH positive and also got culled. I saw the Chapelton Wildfire bull at a show and really disliked him. He appeared to have a large patch of bluey/black when I saw him. His colouration was not what I would like to see  creep in to the breed.

 

[Okotoks]

hey DRB, Chapelton Liberty is from pre foot and mouth era, like most UK Shorthorns then , about 50% MA and 50% Shorthorn, the current Chapelton herd is all from  embyro project I put together for Mr Biggar... 28 donor cows and 12 sires... the best breeding bull in the UK is probably Chapelton Typhoon , http://www.chapeltonfarm.co.uk/home.html, also did their AA project. A number of these emybro bulls are now working in Ireland

 

Didn't a lot of these embryo cattle show up as being TH carrier animals and subsequently have to be culled by the Biggars? When I saw the pedigrees of the donor sires and dams it really stood out that there were a lot of "dirty" pedigrees and the potential for carrier calves and deformed progeny from the matings was great. If my memory serves didn,t the Royal Highland Show champion, Chapelton Toronto,  show up as a TH positive and also got culled. I saw the Chapelton Wildfire bull at a show and really disliked him. He appeared to have a large patch of bluey/black when I saw him. His colouration was not what I would like to see  creep in to the breed.

Some of the sires used were TH carriers but these embryos were produced prior to testing being available. My understanding is that they were lucky and the percentage of carriers was below what you would expect. I'm pretty sure the two full brothers Chapelton Typhoon and Chapelton Wildfire are both TH free as are their other current herd sires.

 

[scotland]

hey DRB, Chapelton Liberty is from pre foot and mouth era, like most UK Shorthorns then , about 50% MA and 50% Shorthorn, the current Chapelton herd is all from  embyro project I put together for Mr Biggar... 28 donor cows and 12 sires... the best breeding bull in the UK is probably Chapelton Typhoon , http://www.chapeltonfarm.co.uk/home.html, also did their AA project. A number of these emybro bulls are now working in Ireland

 

Didn't a lot of these embryo cattle show up as being TH carrier animals and subsequently have to be culled by the Biggars? When I saw the pedigrees of the donor sires and dams it really stood out that there were a lot of "dirty" pedigrees and the potential for carrier calves and deformed progeny from the matings was great. If my memory serves didn,t the Royal Highland Show champion, Chapelton Toronto,  show up as a TH positive and also got culled. I saw the Chapelton Wildfire bull at a show and really disliked him. He appeared to have a large patch of bluey/black when I saw him. His colouration was not what I would like to see  creep in to the breed.

ONly 5 carriers in the whole lot, all the matings were done pre TH. The 2 brothers pictured have gone on to prove themselves outstanding sires of sons and daughters, record seelers, show champion, carcass sires. Both TH and PHA free.

 

[aj]

Seemed like dividend is in a lot of pedigrees.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Yup-and as Robert Alden said-he can be linebred almost indefinitely- O0

 

[aj]

Did the old improver bull have any hoof issues I wonder? Didn't he live to be fairly old. Is there anyone out there that trimmed his hoovies? Or have movies of him? Was he buried like dividend?

 

[kfacres]

Lets bump this up, for some actual good reading for shorthorn people, and respectable pictures to check out. (thumbsup)

 

[wiseguy]

GREAT RE-READ! It had been sometime since I had read this post and I had forgotten all the great information. A lot of this stuff is information that if we don't pass it on by word of mouth it will be lost in the history books!

Anyone else notice in the July Shorthorn Country that Robert Alden is promoting AF Double Dynasty a Dividend X AF Shannon Margie 587 bull?  I found this very interesting.

 

[knabe]

http://search.shorthorn.org/default.aspx

type in reg#  4184630

i guess shorthorn country isn't online.

 

[kfacres]

GREAT RE-READ! It had been sometime since I had read this post and I had forgotten all the great information. A lot of this stuff is information that if we don't pass it on by word of mouth it will be lost in the history books!

Anyone else notice in the July Shorthorn Country that Robert Alden is promoting AF Double Dynasty a Dividend X AF Shannon Margie 587 bull?  I found this very interesting.

yes-- i believe they were discussing really good cow lines- and the Irish deal was their bread and butter for the last how many years?  worked then for them, why not now?

 

[GM]

I haven't seen the recent Shorthorn Country yet, but I'm glad to see a Dividend son being promoted.

There's always talk about what to breed clubby bred cows to.  I don't have a herd of clubby cattle, but if I did I'd breed them to a full irish THF shorthorn bull (from the  irish Leader lines...not improver since most clubby bred cows are THC) for first calf heifers or cleanup duty.  While the resulting bull calves will probably not make marketable steers, some of their female half sisters will better than average replacements...especially if you like chrome.

 

[irishshorthorns]

Is there any photo of the AF Double Dynasty bull? I've heard a few people talking about him in the past few weeks. They are supposed to have sold $50,000 worth of pre-booked semen from him already.

 

[knabe]

Isn't he 3 years old?

 

[irishshorthorns]

I was told they are only releasing semen now?

 

[coyote]

Here is a bull we bought out of the Canadian Western Agribition in 1982. He is A F DIVIDENDS IMPACT 2nd who is a full brother to A F DIVIDENDS IMPACT.

 

[knabe]

He's way different than what you have now much finer boned and narrower based with less set to his hock and clearly nowhere the volume of bonanza.  Are people creating a headache?