To what standards do we hold judges?

[knabe]

appreciate the comments show heifer and agree.  i have two friends from high school who killed people in high school while drunk.  another, a champion motocrosser, who was killed by a drunk driver, and a couple others.  my comments are simply that there are no absolutes, and with our society going towards a 0 tolerance, it is leading us down a path of !@^$%@^@.  it is well proven that the majority of drunk drivers who kill, not all grant you, but the vast majority, abuse alchohol contiually, drive on suspended licenses etc.  we focus our attention on the ones that can be measured by a machine which may not be accurate with a zero tolerance,( it is the only "crime" where you are presumed guilty in court), but won't use that same zero tolerance for those who have been arrested repeatedly for not only driving drunk, but who have also caused accidents, killed people.  we are filling up our court systems with drug offenders and alchohol related offenses at the expense of crimes of violence.  our jails and courts are a mirror of what we choose to enforce and penalize.  i am just saying we are letting too many aggregeous crimes are not getting their attention because we have a system that discriminates based on bed space.  if it were up to me, i would change drunk driving laws (and drugs for that matter) to maximize an increasing fee based system, enforceable by docking your pay immediately with little court time if any at all.  similar to speeding tickets, except the fee is huge.  increasing penalties logarithmically (more than linearly) for repeat offenses.  for those that are "sick", and refuse to cooperate, i guess we can only do what we have always done, elect them for the senate!  i realize this doesn't address all the enforcement areas, i'm just saying that 0.08 needs to be looked at again, otherwise we will be looking at interlocks and paying a pedestrian to breath into it so we can be on our way, raising the cost of everything, with no real change in statistics, which, haven't changed in a while, no matter all the enforcement, yet we clog our courts and jails, forcing us to set free violent criminals and shorten their sentences.  i do agree some can see that drunk driving is violent.  i need a scott translation here.  i would like to see more focus on repeat offenders, since statistics bear out they kill more, and are at a


the average drunk driver has a blood alchohol content of 0.16
8 drinks in an hour for a 200 lb man will give you a 0.16

Fatalities from drunk driving dropped from estimates as high as 70 percent of all highway fatalities in the mid-1980s to around 50 percent today.  Chronic alcoholics are now the largest cause of drunk driving collisions and it is clear “tougher” laws do not discourage problem drinkers from driving even when they have lost their licenses.

i would like to see us figure out something to do with these people rather than focusing so much attention on the 0.08 people. it's easy to focus on them with the machine, but the chronic ones are the ones that are doing the most of the killing.  that 50% number is astonishing.  it doesn't receive near 1% of the attention as drunk drivers, or the money, yet an equal number die, with an unequal outrage.

off the box.

 

[Clubcalfshowgirl]

Ok About the DWI and DUI, ya i'm young and all but i'll never foret the morning that i heard gaging and screaming and chokeing in my bathroom and i wated a little while and then i didnt hear my parents open there door and i walked out of my room seeing my parents standing at the bathroom and my sisters room and then i saw my sis walk across the hall and she was in complete tears and balling and chokeing and i asked my mom what had happened and she said that my sis b/f was killed on his motorcycle tonite.That was at 3:30am!! I of course wanted to know but all we knew at that time is that a drunk drive had wrecked and he hit a girl and 2 were dead!! The drunk drive blew OVER the limit 4 hours after the crash!! Well my sisters b/f parents just got the police reports and the autopsy of the girl and we found out there is NOWAY that the boy had hit the girl!! That was only 2 months ago that it happened. All i know is that i BEG all my friends not to drink and drive EVER again!!

 

[knabe]

out here in CA bay area, we had a high profile case just "settled" when a teen racing on hgwy 280, sideswiped a delegation from tonga.  she received misdemeanor charges and one year in jail.  one year for killing 3 people with no alchohol involved.  the tongons are forgiving the driver, but are suing ford.  i feel equal outrage at both this driver and drunk drivers who kill.  the driver had an extensive proven past of driving dangerously.  perhaps if the driver had $, she wouldn't be forgiven so easily.

 

[jimmyski]

As a judge myself, I try to hold myself to the highest standards. I think it's important that if you are working with today's youth that you know they are the leaders of tomorrow and you need to set forth a positive example. I also know that I will never make everyone happy and that not everyone is going to agree with me. I don't mind if someone is profession and wants to discuss my reasoning is civil manner, but the minute someone starts making personal attacks I just walk away cause I want no part of that and don't want the kids to see that.

At the same time, I get asked back to shows alot for a second year and that second year is almost a pain in the butt. Even if you just introduced yourself and said hi the first year, then next everyone seems to think you're their best friend and you don't hardly have a free moment to sit back and relax. This is about the same moment that people start accusing you of being political and that's the last thing I ever want to be considered, but it still tends to happen to everyone.

Finally, as long as I still feel like I'm doing it for the right reasons, and to me that's working with the today's youth and educating them about their animals, and having fun while learning as much from them as I hope they learn from me. I fear the day that it is no longer fun and I no longer enjoy it and hope it never comes, but if it does, at that point in time then I will step away, because otherwise it wouldn't be fair to myself or more importantly the kids.

 

[Telos]

The fact of the matter Rash probably did not have much of an input on the decision making at 16. I would guess those decisions were made by adults. One of the great things about showing in the junior program is that it helps build self esteem and confidence. I'm sure this experience for a 16 year old was Traumatic and embarrassing when self pride is so important.

Rash, in my opinion, is the best in the business with giving reasons and talking  to our youth.  He takes it to a whole different level. I consider it a priviledge to watch and listen to him work a class of cattle.

 

[chambero]

In the mid-90s, a whole bunch of people down here were using clenbuterol.  Folks knew it wasn't authorized in the US and that we weren't really supposed to, but had no idea the real ramifications of it.  It's that education thing again.  There was no internet to be able to really study and learn first hand the specific details of it.  One of the main distrubutors was a vet in the midwest somewhere. 

It wasn't right and there isn't any defense for it.  It's easy to second guess it now, but most people were of the mindset that if its coming from a vet it can't be that bad.  One of our vets tried like heck to get us to use CIDRs a couple of years before they were "legal" here. 

The shows finally decided to make an example of someone (or two).  The National Western has always seemed to be willing to air their dirty laundry.  They should be congratulated because it helped "inspire" a bunch of folks to change their ways. 

We gripe about "rich people" that hire someone to do all the work and their kids show up on show day.  Even though the Rash boys always had fitters (who by the way would help out with other folks calves too), there hasn't ever been anybody that obviously spent more time with their calves personally than those guys.  You could just tell it by the way those kids could show - from the time they were really small kids. 

Nobody is perfect.  Some people have a really ugly wart or two.  But there is no better example than Ryan Rash in my opinion if you want to point to someone and tell your kid there is someone that spent the time and cared enough about showing cattle to get to the absolute pinnacle.  Nothing wrong with that for a judge.  You might not ever see him invited to judge a terminal major, but for a prospect show he certainly fits the bill.

 

[ratmama2]

Hi All,
I have been lurking for a while and thought I would give my 2 cents. My children and I have been showing for about 10 years now in 4-H(steers and Heifers) and open shows(heifers). We have a small farm and about 14 registered Herefords between the adults and children. We have not had the pleasure of showing at any major shows just yet but the small ones keep us busy. Anyhow I have seen good judges and bad judges come through. A lot of the kids show at the big shows and the majority of them personally know the judges. These kids also are places above better looking animals in thier class. Some of the flirty older girls are also placed above the better animals.My son was in a class such as this.He was 2nd to the flirty girl and I try not to be prejidiced, but felt his steer was better than hers. Then in the champion breed drive I heard him ask her if both of those steeers were hers cause she was leading a different one from the one against my son. I also don't like a judge that is known to breed a particular breed of cattle and then looks lost in a Hereford class because they are not the same structure as their breed. Our cattle are not monsters either and we register by their exact b-day and I find it really irirtating when the yearling March heifer is dwarfed by a suppossedly same age heifer and not just by a couple of inches. These bigger cows are always placed above the smaller cows even if there is something that should have placed them lower like toeing out, etc. This will be our first year showing a bull so we will see how that turns out. He is a beautiful long bodied staight legged guy. I am hoping he puts his body length into my calves. Sorry about the rant but I have seen a bit and I have never been to the big shows>
ratmama2

 

[red]

(welcome) ratmama!

Great points & I've known some girls that have stuffed their bras before a show! Not the way to do it at all! Glad you jumped in & joined us. Will confess that I'm not too sure about the name? Rat mama? We're battleing the beasts right now & hoping they don't carry off our barn!

Red (clapping)

 

[farmboy]

MAYBE RATMAMMA AS IN MEANER THAN A RAWTWHILER (sp IM SURE I SPELLED THAT WRONG) (welcome)

 

[DL]

In the mid-90s, a whole bunch of people down here were using clenbuterol.  Folks knew it wasn't authorized in the US and that we weren't really supposed to, but had no idea the real ramifications of it.  It's that education thing again.  There was no internet to be able to really study and learn first hand the specific details of it.  One of the main distributors was a vet in the midwest somewhere. 

I guess it just goes to show you that (a) people need to be responsible for themselves and their own education (b) it is still wrong even if you don't get caught (c) it is still wrong if you don't know the ramifications (d) there are a lot of vets out there that don't keep up, don't follow the law, and take short cuts - you need to know where your vet fits in the scale (e) just because you got it from a vet doesn't make it right or legal (vets have been known to lose their licence for such behavior)

Clenbuterol (now legal for the use in the horse only in the US; not legal for use in food animals) is known to be responsible for deaths in Japan (ie eating meat form clenbuterol treated beef); alcohol kills people on the road every day - we all have warts - but are some warts bigger and worse than others? Are all warts to be forgiven if there is remorse? How about if there is no remorse? If Herb did a bad thing when he was 16 but repented and now behaves well is he more worthy of judging junior shows than his brother Thad who did the same bad thing but still behaves badly?

chambero - how do you judge warts?

 

[red]

Farmboy- do you mean a Rottweiler? Too funny!!!

 

[DL]

I am taking a collection to get Farmboy a spell checker for his birthday (when is your birthday??)

 

[red]

we do have one here on the site!
I'll chip in a dime!!

Red (clapping)

 

[Telos]

I difanitly

 

[Telos]

I definitely think Farm Boy is well worth the money. I'll chip in, only if he can guess DL's next "name the bull' on two hints or less.

 

[chambero]

Warts are ugly - no matter which virus causes them.  Some fall off eventually and disappear while some don't (usually the big ugly hairy ones that right where everyone can see them).  Often, they are in reality smaller than the ones you don't see.

I was around a whole bunch of stuff growing up including folks I still consider to be very good people - including vets.  Some of those folks (still) aren't completely enlightened about the details of regulations involving this stuff.  There again - they rely on those they think do know (i.e. vets).  In the area I live, this "stuff" is small potatoes compared to what the horse show people are involved in.  The dollars get real serious there.  The gloves really come off when "food" and "juniors" aren't involved.  Everything is relative.  We hear lots of stories in our small town that was invaded 30 years ago by the unique subspecies of human we refer to as "horse ranch trash".  In fact, the federal government operated several of our local ranches due to their involvement in the importation of substances that are a lot higher on the list of concern than a bottle or two of Lasix, Clenbuterol, or the other wonder drugs of the day.  In fact, most of these "techniques" were perfected at horse shows and select ones were adapted for use on cattle.  

As one gets older and gets educated in certain areas (particularly government regulations), its a lot easier to figure out the "why nots" of something.  The rulebooks that were availalbe 10-20 years ago weren't nearly as specific.  For your average construction contractor, blue collar worker, farmer, etc. it was essentially impossible and certainly impractical to call up APHIS or whoever else is involved in the regulation of these things to find out the whys or why nots.  Most people still don't have a clue where to start.

It's infinitely easier to educate yourself now - even if you aren't a specialist in a certain field.  Not too many legitimate excuses anymore (not that there were back then either).  But even less so now.

So - my opinion is that its much harder to plead ignorance now.  That's a good thing and I really believe show animals are "cleaner" now than they used to be.  Not spotless, but much better.  Besides most of the legal stuff available now is infinitely better than the bootlegged stuff.  Of course there is also no shortage of "snake oil" out there.  I don't pay much attention to it or use it unless its manufactured by a real company.  I figure the PhDs at the big ag companies know what works and what don't.  In my mind now, a "wart" that pops out now is much uglier (maybe even terminal) compared to one 20 years ago.  

 

[bluegrass]

I think it would be fun to hold a steer show where there are no rules except that the animals could not be used for human consumption. No holds barred steer show could be done in a tournament system with like 25  knowledgable cattle people voting by secret ballot to determine who moves on to next round. Put up an insane amount of money for the winner only, to ensure that the jocks really go all out. I think it would be fun to watch.       

 

[afhm]

Chambero don't forget that the lamb people are way worse than the cattle people are about breaking the rules.  I'll agree no one can come close to the horse people especially the race horse people whe it comes to rule bending.

 

[Tx Black Steer]

I was showing back when this happened.  These poeple knew what they were useing and how bad it was.  This stuff wasn't even suppose to be in the U.S.  They weren't only breaking show rules, but also Fed laws by having it in the U.S.  They brought it in from Canada!  The feds  were even waiting in one barn when a shipment was comming from Cananda.  Don't try and tell me they didnt know how bad this stuff was!  We all knew it was being used and that if caught what could happen some just wanted to win at whatever cost!  Now is that the kind of judge we want for a leader of our youth?

 

[Telos]

I have had about 24 hrs. to absorb all this information about Ryan Rash and contemplating my thoughts on this matter. First of all, living in Texas and attending  many of the shows held in Waco, and TheTexas State fair, Fort Worth, Houston... Rash is usually there and many times with the kids constantly around him.They really do like him and I think he likes them too. I feel Rash truly cares about these kids and their future.

Now, here is where it gets interesting in my opinion. I, as an open minded adult, having asked myself a number of times, why would one want to look like a flashing neon sign around a bunch of generally conservative folks from rural areas? The kids are usually following Ryan, like he's The Pied Piper and generally the adults are looking from a distance, maybe thinking bad negative thoughts many sometimes in disgust, (know I have). To me Ryan comes across acting the part of a circus clown and we all know kids usually like the clowns. He really has a talent for making kids happy and feeling good about themselves. I think he knows how it feels to be ridiculed and prosecuted for whatever. What is unique about Ryan is that he appears to be comfortable in his own skin and never afraid  of being in with a pack of wolves.

Adults, learn a lesson or two from your kids, their perceptions and perspectives have not been changed yet. Cherish the fact that you truly have someone out there that really cares for the future of our youth.  Maybe we all can learn to like the clowns again. Be at least tolerant of people no matter how different they appear.

... and Ryan. I don't know you, but know who you are. You keep doing what your doing because it is good. You own a talent that few have. I like your reasons!
You give awesome reasons. Never seen or heard better. Not even close. The Polled Hereford breeder from Larned, Kansas, Joe Lewis probably a generation or two before you was awfully good with the kids too... But did not give "reasons" to the level you have acquired.