Top 10 Shorthorn Cow Families

[r.n.reed]

This is a good discusion.I guess I would come down on the side of Gone West on this one.The first thought that crosses my mind is where would a cow family like the Myrtle Bo's be today without the Trump influence.Are there any out there winning in the show ring or the pasture without any Trump influence?Is anybody stacking the Carmele cow through other offspring than Trump in their pedigree's?Are the Carmele's still a factor in the Waukaru herd,their birthplace from a RosewoodxCharolais foundation?
Having said that,Iwould also say that I have been to closed and semi closed herds where some cow families were discernable though suttle in some generations and I would attribute that to the old line nicking somehow with the bull that sired that generation.
Until TH came along I used to make light of the Thoroughbred breeders and their 5 generation pedigree's.If the TH gene could express itself when bred to a carrier after 6 or 7 clean consecutive crosses,I decided that maybe some good things could sneak through as well.

 

[Okotoks]

I am a great believer in cow families but Gonewest makes some very valid points. If by using good bulls you couldn’t improve and create great cows what would be the point? However I’d much rather start with a proven cow family and then use the good bull.
I also think if you select bulls out of great cows it will be a lot easier to produce the good ones.
Here are my top ten cow families for today because tomorrow I’ll think of a dozen more. These are mostly Canadian as I am more familiar with them.
I will start my list with the Irish Shannon Margie’s, they have had a lot of influence and produced both bulls and females that have had an impact. I jointly owned one and she was a good beast.
An American cow family would be the Cumberlands. A few bulls from this family were brought to Canada and used with success. We used a grandson of Cumberland 410.
I already mentioned the Clippers, probably my favorite. The original Clipper was bought by Amos Cruickshank(Scotland) in the 1840’s and has descendants throughout the breed.
Picture Perfects, they go back to a Hilltop Lass cow but what the original family name was I don’t know. Under the Picture Perfect name they have made quite a name for themselves. My favourite bull from this line was Butterfield High Rigger.
Ruby , the Eionmor Ruby’s, the Homedale Ruby’s or the RB Ruby’s, probably not related but all great and all producers of both great females and herd bulls.
Talcott Joyful’s, originally from Manitoba but influential at Earl McCorriston’s in Saskatchewan then in a lot of herds even being sent to Scotland.
I’m going to include the Baroness family, they have been successful both in Canada and the US.
Melba Niam, a great family in Western Canada at Horseshoe Creek. I had some and foolishly let them get away. They came to Canada from North Dakota but go back to Weston Melba Niam.
Silver Rose from Crawfords in Ontario, a pretty influential female line.
Ok so that’s nine and I had three Alta Cedar families Lilian. The original Alta Cedar Lilian female was a Mandalong Super Flag daughter, Miami Lilian. Lilians have gone to England, Scotland and the USA and bulls from this family have been used around the globe. Also from Alta Cedar are the Silver Maisie and Silver Gems…………………..
Actually there are really dozens of top families around, Raggedy Ann’s, Elsie’s, Candy’s, Clares, Minnie’s, Patsy’s, Lady’s, Golden Chain, Goldendrop, Missies, Betsy etc. etc.

I mention two families, the Baroness and the Clares. Both of these go back to a cow Beauty (imp) -30- She was the 30th cow registered in the Canadian herdbook. I quote the following from a history compiled by Scotland of SP.
“No other cow has had a greater impact on the Canadian Shorthorn genetic base! -30- Beauty by Snowball, dam by Lawnsleeves calved in 1833. imported by the Hon. Adam Ferguson, Woodhill Farm, Waterdown, Ontario. Beauty matured into a large, good milking prolific matron. All one needs to do, to realize this impact- flip through a copy of the Herdbooks. You will become well aware of her great contribution. Many early show yard victors stem from her. Regardless of geography, fashion and fad this tribe contributed to their owners well being, for more than 150 years. She was considered “Plain-bred”, and with the Scotch rage fell out of favor by the “elite” herds. The Beauty family was the “Farmer’s Cow”. From coast to coast this functional, long wearing family populated the herds. Supplying milk and beef truly “DUAL PURPOSE” fashionable or not you will find her the fountain head of hard working cattle today”

 

[garybob]

Y'uns forgot:  1. Joy Maid  2. Clara 3. Foxglove 4. Butterfly 5. Mayflower 6. Cherry 7. Helianthus 8. Isobel

Whatever happenned to these good, ol' calf-raising kind of cows????? The biggest two culprits are 1. Inceasing ribeye area and postweaning growth, and, 2. Worrying more about whether or not a youngster wins a show, than whether he/she develops a dependable cow herd from the initial foundation purchases of heifers. One is Industry-focused, the other is the realities of the Youth Show.

GB

 

[itk]

How about Tonquish Rodeo Lady. I'm not old enough to remember but Mike Dugdale always told me Cedar Curve Colleen was the best cow he had ever seen. I also like the Star Baby's at Millvale. Mattis was the most unique individual I have seen. 3127 is the most impressive.

 

[cattleman70]

The Carmele cow family is the best. The Carmele cow family started at Waukaru Farms in Rensselaer, Indiana. It was a Charolais bull PWT Valaint on a shorthorn cow WAUKARU ROSEWOOD 121ST. WAUKARU CARMELE a tan appendix shorthorn would end up being the back bone for many great shorthorns to come. The Carmele cow family would spread until a ancestor ended up at Cates Farm. This was WAUKARU CARMELE 842 who's calf was CF CARMELE T 82. T 82 would have 5 registered calves for Cates Farm, three being females. One of those CF CARMELE DT 86 had CF CARMELE RB 950X. In 1991 950X had CARMELE NG NG 158X, and EVERGREEN NUGGET 88 ET daughter. Now, 158X's name has been on so many winning pedigrees nowadays for one reason and one reason only. The bull CF TRUMP X was out of 158X. It's hard to believe that probably the greatest Shorthorn bull goes back to a 1970 Charolais x Shorthorn cross. Now that is a cow family.

 

[JTM]

Okotoks, I was thinking Picture Perfect would be up their too. I have liked what I have seen from that cow family and hope that the influence in Star Bucks comes through. From my herd I have liked the Tulip Rose 747 daughter by WHR Sonny. A mixture of Rose T90 and Cumberland. 747 was TH and sired by Deerpark Improver 57 but luckily the daughter I have was negative. This cow came from an egg that Mark Tenenbaum had. Hey Mark, I still owe you some eggs don't forget! She is bred to Flex for next year and will probably be flushed again after that.
Other than that, I have a lot of cows out of the cow families mentioned. I have not been real impressed with some of them, for instance, Cherry, Fool, Mayflower, and Cindy Beauty. It may just be my experience, but I definitely liked the point of view that GoneWest brought to the table. Cow families are important but you have to be able to breed them to the right bulls also, not just bulls for structure and phenotype but bulls for calving ease, low birthweight, milking, good feet, and good udder structure. Oh, did I mention fertility?

 

[irishshorthorns]

The Carmele cow family is the best. The Carmele cow family started at Waukaru Farms in Rensselaer, Indiana. It was a Charolais bull PWT Valaint on a shorthorn cow WAUKARU ROSEWOOD 121ST. WAUKARU CARMELE a tan appendix shorthorn would end up being the back bone for many great shorthorns to come. The Carmele cow family would spread until a ancestor ended up at Cates Farm. This was WAUKARU CARMELE 842 who's calf was CF CARMELE T 82. T 82 would have 5 registered calves for Cates Farm, three being females. One of those CF CARMELE DT 86 had CF CARMELE RB 950X. In 1991 950X had CARMELE NG NG 158X, and EVERGREEN NUGGET 88 ET daughter. Now, 158X's name has been on so many winning pedigrees nowadays for one reason and one reason only. The bull CF TRUMP X was out of 158X. It's hard to believe that probably the greatest Shorthorn bull goes back to a 1970 Charolais x Shorthorn cross. Now that is a cow family.

I thought this thread was about SHORTHORNS, not mongrel cattle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

And folks say I am rude. This guy has not said one positive thing as far as I am concerned. If my "mongrel" cattle grade better than yours and require less input how can you argue. Your blinded by a weird form of pedigree prejudice. You call yourself Irishshorthorn. I have to laugh. How pure are your Irish bloodlines? Give me a break dude.  Your not doing anything different than anybody else. Those bulls you listed as ones you like and use have gotten plenty of use here.

 

[itk]

Is someone named irishshorthorns complaining about mongrel cattle a oxymoron. I got two words for you CLARE MAN.

I love the breed as much as the next guy. I get indigestion thinking about some of the negative effects opening the herd book up to percentage cattle has had. We also have to realize that this move probally saved the breed from total irrelevance in the beef industry. Not only did it raise more revenue through increased registrations but allowed breeders to fix some of the extremes in the breed quicker. Without these changes the breed might have never been able to down size mature cow size and lost all commercial acceptance, that we are still struggling to regain. We have to take the bad with the good.

 

[JTM]

Okotoks, I was thinking Picture Perfect would be up their too. I have liked what I have seen from that cow family and hope that the influence in Star Bucks comes through. From my herd I have liked the Tulip Rose 747 daughter by WHR Sonny. A mixture of Rose T90 and Cumberland. 747 was TH and sired by Deerpark Improver 57 but luckily the daughter I have was negative. This cow came from an egg that Mark Tenenbaum had. Hey Mark, I still owe you some eggs don't forget! She is bred to Flex for next year and will probably be flushed again after that.
Other than that, I have a lot of cows out of the cow families mentioned. I have not been real impressed with some of them, for instance, Cherry, Fool, Mayflower, and Cindy Beauty. It may just be my experience, but I definitely liked the point of view that GoneWest brought to the table. Cow families are important but you have to be able to breed them to the right bulls also, not just bulls for structure and phenotype but bulls for calving ease, low birthweight, milking, good feet, and good udder structure. Oh, did I mention fertility?

I take back what I said about the Byland Cindy Beauty cow family, she redeemed herself with her second calf this morning, all unassisted heifer calf and she is milking a whole lot better than she did with her first calf. 

 

[irishshorthorns]

And folks say I am rude. This guy has not said one positive thing as far as I am concerned. If my "mongrel" cattle grade better than yours and require less input how can you argue. Your blinded by a weird form of pedigree prejudice. You call yourself Irishshorthorn. I have to laugh. How pure are your Irish bloodlines? Give me a break dude.  Your not doing anything different than anybody else. Those bulls you listed as ones you like and use have gotten plenty of use here.

Ah Trev, don't be like that. We both know that without the Irish cattle  guys like you  wouldn't have a breed to try and screw up! We brought Shorthorn cattle in to the real world, added milk and functionality so you would have something to mess up in your spare time. I bet when you were a boy you were the type of boy who found a loose thread on his sweater and just had to keep pulling at it til you were just left cold and with a pile of loose yarn! OUCH! And P.S. I love the profile pic. If that's you it explains A LOT!

 

[vanridge]

Settle down boys, have a beer  <beer> Um, not to stick my nose in where it don't belong, but the purebred guys and the commercial guys need each other. I need purebred shorthorn bulls and purebred black angus bulls to go on my commercial herd. You purebred guys need people like us to sell your stock to. We have a cow here who is part shorthorn and maybe a bit of simmental. Is she in the top 10 list here? No but she has had 3 heifers in 3 years and they are staying in the herd. Her first heifer calved this year and is doing VERY well. Is she a purebred. No. Is she a mongrel. No. Is she one of MY top 10's? Yes. Now, back to the top 10 cow families, I've heard of a Juie Ann line. Any good?

 

[irishshorthorns]

That's Waylon Jennings you genuis. One of the greatest country music singers of all time.  My great grandaddy came off the boat from Ireland so I am from your bloodlines chief. When I was a boy I played sports. All year round. I almost ignored you because honestly I think you may be pretty deep into the Guiness from sunup to sundown. But I will bite. I am only 36 years old so when the irish saviors came across the pond, I was nowhere to be found. I see you didnt comment on the Clare Mane comment. Go figure. You still have not said one positive comment. Why in the hell am I arguing with a man who never heard of Waylon Jennings? You wouldnt last two days in my neck of the woods before somebody put a boot up your backside. You never seen or lived southern hospitality as I was fortunate enough to grow up in. And I am Irish. Last names Eagon, look it up.

OMG is that Waylon Jennings. Imagine, he must have made a shed load of money from Rednecks buying his whining , and he still can't afford a bar of soap!!!! It's great that your great-grand-father came from Ireland, but the genes are so diluted now Trev it ain't worth mentioning. You need some good blood close up in your pedigree before you'll get a full pedigree certificate or be recognised by a discerning breed society! And your only 36!!!! I thought you were about five, due your poor literary skills which is evident in the spelling errors which include GENIUS, GUINNESS and Irish with a capital I. Imagine, so bitter at such a young age!!! Tis a great pity indeed. You also say your last name is Eagon? Is this another spelling error??? I thought it was spelled M-O-R-O-N?????

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

All I can say is I sure hope I run into you some time at a cattle deal. The shorthorn world is a small community after all. I will be the guy who knocks your teeth out then laughs and spits tobacco juice on you.

 

[irishshorthorns]

All I can say is I sure hope I run into you some time at a cattle deal. The shorthorn world is a small community after all. I will be the guy who knocks your teeth out then laughs and spits tobacco juice on you.

I like you because you're funny. Somehow I doubt if you and I will ever meet. I don't think we'd be mixing in the same social circles! Lol.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Glad I can make you laugh potatoehead. Post some pics of your herd so I can laugh. Im sorry, Improver 57 has absolutely no rear quarter to him at all. No butt, no guts. I suppose irish potatoehead doesnt mind 120 lb TH carrier calves. Good for him. Sorry folks for the rude exchange but this guy I just cant ignore. Good night Mr. potatoehead, I hope the pub doesnt serve on Sundays, or you may say something stupid again. I may not type very good when I am pissed off but I promise, I can talk just fine. So give me a call Mr. potatoehead. I would personally like to see a group of cattle I bred vs his cattle in a equal evaluation. If mine loose, I will puke, then shake his hand and shut my mouth.

 

[irishshorthorns]

Glad I can make you laugh potatoehead. Post some pics of your herd so I can laugh. Im sorry, Improver 57 has absolutely no rear quarter to him at all. No butt, no guts. I suppose irish potatoehead doesnt mind 120 lb TH carrier calves. Good for him. Sorry folks for the rude exchange but this guy I just cant ignore. Good night Mr. potatoehead, I hope the pub doesnt serve on Sundays, or you may say something stupid again. I may not type very good when I am pissed off but I promise, I can talk just fine. So give me a call Mr. potatoehead. I would personally like to see a group of cattle I bred vs his cattle in a equal evaluation. If mine loose, I will puke, then shake his hand and shut my mouth.

I like you, I don't love you but I like you. Lol. Oh Trev, I'm sorry but your opinions don't count for anything with me, whereas mine obviously do with other people. So far this year I've spent $80,000 on Shorthorn and Angus genetics at ALTA Cedar (again), plus two other well known Shorthorn herds, plus Six Mile, Hamilton Farms and DMM Angus. I also have another $40,000 to spend this month on embryos. If your cattle were of any use you too could be enjoying the cake. FYI, Yes, you're correct, I own my own farm and house, fully paid off, and yes I'll be inheriting my parents farms and house too in time. KEERCHING!!!!! Later this year I'll be visiting Agribition with a wad of cash to spend on whatever takes my fancy. The last Angus bull I bred just sold for 17,000 Euro. KEERCHING!!!!  I'll post a pic later. I do hope you'll like. The last Shorthorn I sold was a sale Grand Champion, and sold afterwards to a syndicate for a fee which I can't disclose. KEERCHING!!!!  Oh, life is good!!!!! Lol. And Trev, jealousy is such an unattractive quality.

 

[scotland]

MMMMMMMMM gettin thick in this cowfamily thread... someone stated about the name changes, i pulled my Addicted bull cow family , Adelaide for a few generations, from current to 1970, then Ventura, Maxine, Norman, Princess, Lass, lady belle, may stamp, isalbella , birdie, bufferfly lady gray, beauty(nope not Beauty 20 by snowball) rubena born 1902 Mount forest Ontarion, tracing to Red Rose=455. Many name changes have been done over the centuries, so when we say she's a Nonpariel, which branch, Bates, Booth , a Cruickshank, or a short  pedigree with a sire line that had  Nonapariel in his name.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

Looks like I may have to make a trip to Agribition this year. I knew you had a silver spoon in your mouth all your life. I would imagine their is a fella in Canada who will read your post and start foaming at the mouth wanting your business. I dont think yopu really have a clue and I sure as hell dont value your opinion on cattle. You better be careful what you say on here. You keep it up and you wont have as much money to spend at agribition because you had to go to the dentist and get your teeth put back in. From your bragging on how much money you spend, I can tell your not a breeder. Just a rich ass that thinks he is actually doing something. I still want to put my cattle vs yours and see who has the better more profitable mongrels. I am jealous of nothing from you pal. I will see you in Canada soon Mr Potatoehead. I guess the folks that use my bulls must have no business raising cattle. Their are a few of them on here. Why dont you tell them how stupid they are too. Your ranches  and farms really are not all that sir. Sorry, you may be their best customer! If Alta Cedar was so great how come they have had several bulls promoted here that all fizzled? Tank, Samurai have fallen off the map. Looks like you may be a little late to the party. Hey if some idiot from Ireland called me with a bunch of cash, I guess I would take it. Im glad you dont like my cattle. I take that as a compilment.  

I am officially done talking with you potatoehead. I bet when I finally meet you face to face you wont like me anymore.

 

[irishshorthorns]

Looks like I may have to make a trip to Agribition this year. I knew you had a silver spoon in your mouth all your life. I would imagine their is a fella in Canada who will read your post and start foaming at the mouth wanting your business. I dont think yopu really have a clue and I sure as hell dont value your opinion on cattle. You better be careful what you say on here. You keep it up and you wont have as much money to spend at agribition because you had to go to the dentist and get your teeth put back in. From your bragging on how much money you spend, I can tell your not a breeder. Just a rich ass that thinks he is actually doing something. I still want to put my cattle vs yours and see who has the better more profitable mongrels. I am jealous of nothing from you pal. I will see you in Canada soon Mr Potatoehead. I guess the folks that use my bulls must have no business raising cattle. Their are a few of them on here. Why dont you tell them how stupid they are too. Your ranches  and farms really are not all that sir. Sorry, you may be their best customer! If Alta Cedar was so great how come they have had several bulls promoted here that all fizzled? Tank, Samurai have fallen off the map. Looks like you may be a little late to the party. Hey if some idiot from Ireland called me with a bunch of cash, I guess I would take it. Im glad you dont like my cattle. I take that as a compilment.  

I am officially done talking with you potatoehead. I bet when I finally meet you face to face you wont like me anymore.

Lol. There's no danger of ANY foreign purchaser phoning you looking to purchase stock, semen or embryos. Trust me on this one. Trev, can I leave you with a two part question, 1.) What's your average bull sale price, and 20. How many show winners or champions have you bred or have your customers bred? Many thanks in advance.