trying to get started

[CMB]

Tons of good points on here. Along with all that said, I try to tell my kids, money can buy you anything. Where is the pride in buying that high rent calf? I realize that feeding them is a huge part, but around here, mom, dad, hired hand do all the work except the showing. I am trying to teach them the business end and that hard work pays. I don't think buying high rent calves shows or teaches these kids anything. I think it is a core problem with this country as a whole. Around here you work for what you get. We have bought decent heifers over the years, bred them right, and now raise our own and have been hang-in with everybody else with our own calves. If you have the money to go buy the high rent steers it's definitely easier then raising them. I think buying embryo's and putting them in your recips is a great idea if you can afford to do it.

 

[AAOK]

I don't know about anyone else, but by the time you make the initial investment and spend the money for feed and expenses all year long you hate to just sell them so you collect them.  When we started out, we didn't raise cattle, we got into it strictly to show, it is a great family project, and we thought it would be a great opportunity for the kids. We started raising them thinking it was going to be cheaper than purchasing one and of course with what you see going through a sale ring, we were going to make a fortune, by the time we figured out that many of the high dollars you see are just a facade we were hook and really do enjoy it.
There isn't anything wrong with raising your own as long as you go into it knowing it is probably going to be a loosing deal, it is a gamble, you may get a great one and then again, after a lot of money down the tube you may still get the sale barn calf.

Come on, Jill.  You know you wouldn't have any other way.  The experience of winning with one of your own is miles ahead of winning with one somebody else bred!!!!

I'll round off the numbers, but here's how I see it. 

Price paid for heifers - $12,000  Yearly expenses - $10,000 x 17 years = $170,000  Total - $182,000.  Sales - $100,000  Net Loss - $82,000 over 17 years = $5000/year.

Now, tell me how you can have a family hobby, where everyone gets to contribute, and all get to work together, that you can do for under $5000 a year?  Not only that, but we won locally.  We won at State.  We won Nationally; all with calves we raised!

Don't let anyone tell you to go out and buy a Show Calf.  Make it a little challenging; raise your own herd, and have a real family experience you can talk about years later!!!

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

In my opinion it should be about the kids and letting them learn.  I would let them go into your commercial cattle and pick the best couple cows and AI them to the bulls that you and them sit down and pick.  You aren't looking for anything great just right off the bat just something that could be competitive at the fair.  This way it is a project all their own. 

 

[bruiser]

All this advice is worth exactly what you paid for it. In the end you are the one making the final disicion -you know your kids, so you decide -  buying steers from reputable people is alot cheaper starting out . As aproducer its hard not to try to raise them yourself. Just keep in mind the real club calf guys (pro-tour etc.) have tons of cows and avet on speed dial. I've bought alot of steers over the years and never left the state of Ill. Go talk to some show people- find a good sale w/ a good reputation- look early - find someone to go w/ you (two sets of eyes are better ) and buy a steer. The steer jocks know where to go to find decent stock. Look in the ad's here,there's some nice steers for decent money. If you've fed out cattle for yourself you know where to start one at. Fix a place for your kid to work on it w/out help( easier on Dad and builds confidence in the kid that he can do things by himself. The more routine it is- the easier it becomes. A clinic is well worth the money we went to a Stierwalt last winter, hec of a nice guy, they work with the kids and adults to.

 

[braunvieh]

I think early on it is very expensive and hard as some are saying because of the start up costs....it takes alot of time and money finding/buying good seedstock and time to see them prove themselves. If you are not used to AIing or doing ET work, that is a learning process in its own. It is a quick way to get some high quality genetics in your herd but it can be expensive and it is not a surefire thing.

If I were in your shoes, I would go out and select a nice young heifer as a project and then build from there. Something with good quality but more importantly a great disposition. My son is also 8 and last year was his first year. He picked a heifer from our herd to show, she was not a top show heifer but she was a dream to work with and taught him so much and he loved it!! Plus if you go out and start with a grand champion, how do you improve on that??? I want my son to learn about the work and the fun and process to select and groom and feed and if he does well, that is icing on the cake. He will probably select a heifer every year and that will give him a small group to start raising calves and build a college fund. Although we do this from calves we raise, I think it could be done by buying calves as well. I know from this board that there are MANY wonderful breeders out there that will help you find a perfect fit for your family. It's a resource I would definitely use if I wanted to go that route.  Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Jill]

AAOK-I will 100% agree with you, there is nothing better than winning with one you raised, I just know it takes an enormous amount of time and money (you did it on a whole lot less money than we did) to get to the place you're raising ones you can be competitive with. 
bruiser referenced the Pro-Tour sale, you have to realize that those operations have hundreds of cows and only a handful are good enough to make that sale.

 

[Cattledog]

 
I can guaranteed you this much it is a whole lot funner to do well and see your hard work pay off, do yourself a favor and don't waste your time with a calf you know won't compete, get in an off breed class or different age bracket where your son can see some success from his work, it will pay you back in the long run.

I think this is excellent advise.  If I wasn't so rooted in Black Angus I would give the Red Angus a shot.  It is still relatively small in my area and you will more than likely have yourself something that will be a good cow at the end of her show career.  Getting in on the ground floor of this breed could be good as well.  This thing is getting pretty hot!

I know alot of the clubby guys on here have been talking about using Red angus to make Durham Reds and for using them for show steers and such.

Red Angus is just a suggestion.  There are a bunch of other smaller breeds out there but my blinders work so well that the only other breed I would consider is Red Angus.  Just love the cows!

 

[kanshow]

All good advice and I can see both sides.  My advice is to start slow and then let the kids interest, skills, and goals dictate where you go and what track you take to get there. 

I know what has worked for us and why..  We have a commercial & purebred cow/calf herd, so it was natural the first year to  pick the most gentle heifer calf for the kids to show.  Those calves werent' the greatest lookers but they were awesome teachers.    The cows they became are just good cows that produce a calf every year.  That calf helps to offset cost of a purchased heifer or pay feed bill.  These kids are building equity.

 

[AAOK]

If you're interested in breeding your own, read this.  If you want to talk about it, give me a call.  You don't have to break the bank!

http://www.clubcalves.com/asklundhistory.htm

Dan
580-310-4081

 

[kobo_ranch]

Tons of good points on here. Along with all that said, I try to tell my kids, money can buy you anything. Where is the pride in buying that high rent calf? I realize that feeding them is a huge part, but around here, mom, dad, hired hand do all the work except the showing. I am trying to teach them the business end and that hard work pays. I don't think buying high rent calves shows or teaches these kids anything. I think it is a core problem with this country as a whole. Around here you work for what you get. We have bought decent heifers over the years, bred them right, and now raise our own and have been hang-in with everybody else with our own calves. If you have the money to go buy the high rent steers it's definitely easier then raising them. I think buying embryo's and putting them in your recips is a great idea if you can afford to do it.

if
Lots of good points and this one for sure!  If you have a few cows and want to try for a show calf it may be hard depending on what kind of cows you have (and sires)... but if you have awesome cows it is possible.  Doesn't mean you'll win, a bought steer from a jock doesn't always mean you'll win either.  It is a huge source of pride knowing you raised your own animal on your own ranch.  Its pride and hard work that means more than who has the most money (even though it still takes alot to raise a nice steer)  If you're little ones still just 8 you have several years to perhaps raise a good one!  I agree start with a heifer (find and buy) if your own cows aren't top notch... you might sell some of your cows and invest in some good ones.  AIing is much more affordable than the emb transplanting, unless you're doing it yourself. 

 

[CAB]

Dan nice link to some of your family's best memories. Brent

 

[Sunset Hills]

Get some nice embryos and implant in your ugglyer cows.  If you wanna breed your own pick the best cows to A.I.
Nothings more rewarding than winning with one you invested in.  Just cause you spend alot you might not always win. ;D

 

[kfacres]

I didn't really read any of the above posts... but here's what I suggest...

It will take you years, and years, and years to build a competitive herd from your commercial status...  I suggest that you and your son together, go and pick out a $1000-$2000 heifer calf at weaning (maybe more if the money is there) of the quality that you would like to raise.  Do this for a couple of years or so.  Or buy some cow/ calf bred pairs.  You came usually  buy good OLD cows cheap, but if  your not going to flush them, it's prob not worth it...  Flushing isn't advised at your stage of the game, IMO. 

I would pick out your stoutest, soundest, best balanced cows and breed them AI to some "hot clubby" and some foundation "breed" bulls... This allows you to continue producing commercial cows to support you new endeavor- gives you a really good, affordable heifer(s) to build around, and gives you the option of making your own calves not just to compete at the county fair- but also some heifer calves to also start building a herd around.  As time goes on- cull out those lower quality cows who don't get the job done, or convert them back into the commercial herd.  and retain those that "fit the bill" 

It will probably take you 8-10 years- about the time your son is approaching to old for 4H status- you will be making competive show cattle...  If he's really into it, the desire to help others will take over, and he'll start selling local club calves.  No one will want to buy from you if they have to compete against you!

I think I just told my life story!!

 

[kobo_ranch]

I didn't really read any of the above posts... but here's what I suggest...

It will take you years, and years, and years to build a competitive herd from your commercial status...  I suggest that you and your son together, go and pick out a $1000-$2000 heifer calf at weaning (maybe more if the money is there) of the quality that you would like to raise.  Do this for a couple of years or so.  Or buy some cow/ calf bred pairs.  You came usually  buy good OLD cows cheap, but if  your not going to flush them, it's prob not worth it...  Flushing isn't advised at your stage of the game, IMO. 

I would pick out your stoutest, soundest, best balanced cows and breed them AI to some "hot clubby" and some foundation "breed" bulls... This allows you to continue producing commercial cows to support you new endeavor- gives you a really good, affordable heifer(s) to build around, and gives you the option of making your own calves not just to compete at the county fair- but also some heifer calves to also start building a herd around.  As time goes on- cull out those lower quality cows who don't get the job done, or convert them back into the commercial herd.  and retain those that "fit the bill" 
WELL SAID... I meant to say that too!!
It will probably take you 8-10 years- about the time your son is approaching to old for 4H status- you will be making competive show cattle...  If he's really into it, the desire to help others will take over, and he'll start selling local club calves.  No one will want to buy from you if they have to compete against you!

I think I just told my life story!!

 

[kobo_ranch]

I didn't really read any of the above posts... but here's what I suggest...

It will take you years, and years, and years to build a competitive herd from your commercial status...  I suggest that you and your son together, go and pick out a $1000-$2000 heifer calf at weaning (maybe more if the money is there) of the quality that you would like to raise.  Do this for a couple of years or so.  Or buy some cow/ calf bred pairs.  You came usually  buy good OLD cows cheap, but if  your not going to flush them, it's prob not worth it...  Flushing isn't advised at your stage of the game, IMO. 

I would pick out your stoutest, soundest, best balanced cows and breed them AI to some "hot clubby" and some foundation "breed" bulls... This allows you to continue producing commercial cows to support you new endeavor- gives you a really good, affordable heifer(s) to build around, and gives you the option of making your own calves not just to compete at the county fair- but also some heifer calves to also start building a herd around.  As time goes on- cull out those lower quality cows who don't get the job done, or convert them back into the commercial herd.  and retain those that "fit the bill" 
WELL SAID... I meant to say that too!!
It will probably take you 8-10 years- about the time your son is approaching to old for 4H status- you will be making competive show cattle...  If he's really into it, the desire to help others will take over, and he'll start selling local club calves.  No one will want to buy from you if they have to compete against you!

I think I just told my life story!!

????  Meant to say... WELL SAID! 
That's what we've done, and he's right people in your own county won't buy from you if they think you're picking out the top calves for your own kid.
Our son is a Junior this year... just took our top calves up just now to check into to our County show... We have a awesome group of experienced show parents... gonna be great... I'll keep yall posted on how we do.  Son just has one more year left, again we'll pick out of the herd... then the next year maybe we can sell more calves!!

 

[kfacres]

I beleive the original poster wanted to know about pedigrees too!  For creating replacement females, I would suggest going the Simi, Maine, or Shorthorn route...  Plenty of options...

For creating steers on that kind of cow, If you have bigger cows, go something like Red Hot, or mainly his son, Jimmy the Greek...  We used JtG some last year, and got some super calves from ordinary cows... if they were larger cows...  For the smaller cows, there's plenty of options, Heat Wave sons, etc. 

Plenty of options out there...

 

[Sunset Hills]

If you want to know about genitics go WMW for females.
For steers walks alone looks nice.  I'll be using him
O0

 

[bruiser]

When I talked about buying a steer or heifer I didn't mean spending a farm down payment on one you can have alot of fun w/ a $1000 dollar steer. You can't base buying decision on money alone. In our county we have a very good 4-H auction after the show. Abuyer who doesn't want to keep the animal he buys , pays the diff. between the base price(ave of that days market price) and his bid price. The kid gets to keep the animal to show more and the buyer get to donate to a good cause!!!! Everyone wins. After doing this a couple of years the kid can buy their own animal. As far as start up costs a cheap chute and blowers  can usually be found at the bigger state shows( beef expo's etc.). Just walk thru the barns and look around you can see how other people do things and learn some tricks . Don't worry about showing at the bigger shows for afew years. When they get enough experience take acalf just set goals - middle of the class in some shows is a great accomplishment for a cheap steer. Just see how good your $900 steer looks standing under a couple of $10k club calves. And how p.o. the  guy thatpaid $5k for a steer you just smoked acts. It's agreat feeling to see your son do a good job showing a nice steer that both of you have worked hard with and be placed above more expensive steers w/ less work.

 

[AAOK]

Dan nice link to some of your family's best memories. Brent

Thanks, Brent.  It's too bad so many think buying a Purple banner is rewarding.  As far as I'm concerned it's all about the commodore and memories; but I guess winning does help

 

[TMJ Show Cattle]

Pm us and will tell you how in three years my daughters, ages [at the time] 8, 10, and 13 have 10 cows between them,three are show heifers now, all the rest were show heifers that competed [won some] at county, bigger jackpots, and at State Fair level,have less than 3500.00 invested in any one particular cow,and have sold all of their calves from 1600.00 to 4500.00 [all but one brought more than 2000.00.] These were all out of first calf heifers. It can be done,you have to be diligent,and have a little luck.Counting feed and hay expense,the cows will be paid for by the end of next year,even if they don't produce a club calf calibre calf this year....Good luck whichever way you decide to go,have fun and by all means find someone that know's what they are doing to help you.