phillse said:
knabe said:
so no other breeds. what do numbers mean with no other breeds.
ww seem low?
Knabe raises a good question on the thickest bulls thread. It would be real interesting to see the Sire test use say bulls representing the top 10% for the same traits of Shorthorns and Simmentals on this same cow base under the same conditions during the same year.
I realize to do this would add considerable cost, but it would statistically give you apples to apples, removing the variable for management and year to year forage and climate conditions. It would probably be a good start for shorthorns to prove or disprove the perceptions.
I know year ago when Dr. Lipsey was still with the Simmental association he told me and dad that there was no way that a Shorthorn could grow with a Simmental even though the evidence with the bloodlines being used by us at the time showed the Shorthorns performing with or beter than the Simmentals for Birth Weight and weaning weight.
Shorthorn Bulls used were Mel-bar Rodeo Drive 347, RB Eagle 148. Simmental Bulls used were Nichols Legacy G151, Nichols Destiney D12, and TE McCredie G8
Unfortunately, the idea of comparing breeds to each other on the same cow base is not going to happen. That was the first question that I asked when we began this sire test. I wanted to get other breeds involved, and compare progeny.
Here is the reality. Angus has the market share and has nothing to prove. Hereford know they can't compete on the grid, that's not their game. No continental breed wants to go against the Shorthorns because they are pretty confident they will get negative results especially when it comes to IMF.
So then I said what if we buy the semen off the open market. Immediately the Universities will walk away because they can't afford to make a breed association mad at them.
So what is the answer? Mike Hora in Iowa is doing another test for Shorthorns that I helped set up. Mike sells all his cattle on the Grid and prides himself on Prime carcasses. Mike bred 70-80 cows to JSF Gauge, Waukaru Optimus, and Byland Top Gun in 2017. He has the calves in the feelot and will be harvesting them late summer and into fall 2019.
The great thing about this test is that he will compare them to Gardiner Angus sired calves in the same contemporary group. Side by side feeding. Unfortunately, we won't have the conversion data like the U of I. Same cow base, same feedlot, same kill date, etc.
However, my worry is that no one will take this trial seriously because it was not performed by a "University." Unless of course the Shorthorns fall short. Then the other breeds will say "I told you so!"
But going against Gardiner Angus sires is a tall order.
The reality is that things aren't as simple as people think. An enormous amount of work goes into getting these trails set up, and completed. More importantly, Universities aren't willing to follow the breeds guidelines step by step the way we want them. Sure it would be simple to walk away, but then we are back at the beginning with no data and no leg to stand on.
The ASA could do a better job of being transparent. Heck I wouldn't know any of this information if I wasn't a part of both trials. However, they aren't going to tell people why things didn't work out. Their job is to only promote the the good things.
