US Farm Bill

[aj]

I live in a semi arid area. I know a couple of big farmers out here who in my opinion are working the system over. They continously plant crops year after year(no summer fallow) and usually expect insurance payments......unless it does happen to rain. If inurance companies bristle up the farmer just changes the ownership of the land. Then the insurance company can't deny insurance to the new family member. So they are playing the scam on subsidized insurance. It isn't right. I'm pretty much on a summer fallow program and I'm sure my rates are up because of this game. The thing is that government is so huge it is hard to monitor stuff like this.

 

[Eggbert]

AJ hit the nail on the head...that is why crop insurance subsidies should go away.  He only outlines one potential way to "work the system over" there are many other ways left unmentioned.  Those willing to cheat the system have a comparative advantage over others and thus can do quite well.  It appears to be a much larger probably than people want to admit.  Not in all cases, but that has helped many "big" farmers get much bigger over the past decade or so. 

Government never furthered any enterprise but by the alacrity with which it got out of its way. – Henry David Thoreau

If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free. – P.J. O'Rourke (1993)  (The same applies to crop insurance...if it is subsidized then the taxpayers are paying for it through higher taxes and/or higher inflation.  Mostly through higher inflation (the hidden tax).

Everyone thinks about changing the world, but no one thinks about changing himself. – Leo Tolstoy  (...don't call yourself a conservative, and be more than happy to accept highly subsidized crop insurance).

When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both. – James Dale Davidson

If we were directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we would soon want for bread. – Thomas Jefferson  (isn't this exactly what crop insurance does?  ...don't plant before this date...don't harvest until you contact us.

The government is good at one thing. It knows how to break your legs, and then hand you a crutch and say, "See if it weren't for the government, you wouldn't be able to walk". – Harry Browne  (limited government intervention is good...even as it pertains to agriculture)

I live in a semi arid area. I know a couple of big farmers out here who in my opinion are working the system over. They continously plant crops year after year(no summer fallow) and usually expect insurance payments......unless it does happen to rain. If inurance companies bristle up the farmer just changes the ownership of the land. Then the insurance company can't deny insurance to the new family member. So they are playing the scam on subsidized insurance. It isn't right. I'm pretty much on a summer fallow program and I'm sure my rates are up because of this game. The thing is that government is so huge it is hard to monitor stuff like this.

 

[nate53]

I'm all for the government getting out of ag (really I am).  We wouldn't get crop insurance if we didn't have to have it.  We don't buy it to get rich, we buy it so we don't lose everything in bad years.  Sure there are people that play the insurance game.  So you all are saying we should take away crop insurance from everyone because some of the big, medium, small outfits aren't honest.  Maybe we should take away everyone's firearms because of a few crazies?  All I am saying is there needs to be some sort of insurance for crops (subsizidized or not) it needs to be available and be realistic on price (I'm not talking full coverage, we use 70% coverage of our average yield).  Why should farmers take on all the risk to feed this country and possibly lose everything thing they have because of something that is totally out of anyone's control (weather).  I love farming, it's not just a business, its my life, but I will not sacrifice everything I know and love for that way of life.  Maybe as a backup plan you all should learn how to raise your own food.

 

[RyanChandler]

The wealthiest man I know is a merchant builder. The second wealthiest man I know is a cotton farmer from Oklahoma...hmmm

 

[knabe]

So you all are saying we should take away crop insurance from everyone because some of the big, medium, small outfits aren't honest. 

just get the government out of it.  why is this so hard to understand?

 

[nkotb]

There is next to no industry that is not in some way "helped" by the US government.  Most are in direct subsidy payments, some in grants.

 

[nate53]

So you all are saying we should take away crop insurance from everyone because some of the big, medium, small outfits aren't honest. 

just get the government out of it.  why is this so hard to understand?

If we can have affordable crop insurance with out the gov. then bring it on.  I'm all for it.  Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[nate53]

There is next to no industry that is not in some way "helped" by the US government.  Most are in direct subsidy payments, some in grants.

I would go further and say there is no one and nothing in this country that is not receiving some subsidy direct or indirectly.  I hear people say they have never received a penny from the gov. and I say have you shopped at a supermarket before, have you drove a vehicle, seen a doctor, flown in a plane, etc., etc. etc.   The government is into everything.  (which isn't good)

 

[RyanChandler]

So you all are saying we should take away crop insurance from everyone because some of the big, medium, small outfits aren't honest. 

just get the government out of it.  why is this so hard to understand?

If we can have affordable crop insurance with out the gov. then bring it on.  I'm all for it.  Why is this so hard to understand?

You're telling me there aren't farmers out there who acquire insurance through the  private sector?

* I have to admit I'm getting a huge kick out of these staunch conservatives justifying their welfare recipient status.

 

[Eggbert]

Aussie says "To us you all live in a fake economy."  It is sad that foreigners easily recognize this fact, but a vast majority of Americans have no idea.  What will it take for people to realize what is going on? 

Aussie...I do have to point out that the Australian dollar is also a fiat currency (is not backed by gold, silver, or other commodities).  So...is Australia on a similar path as the US?

"The five-year farm bill, which aids farmers with price protections and subsidies"

farmers that claim they are republican or conservative yet want price protections and subsidies are lying to themselves.

they should lead by example, then they would have some credibility.

perhaps also, the "new york" farmers would get out, lowering the pressure on land prices.

the farm bill and everything it is built on is just like JIT's example in the other thread.

Exactly! Farmers are the biggest welfare recipients in this country.   Let all these subsidies expire and then a real price equilibrium reflecting the intrinsic value of their product can be formed. 

If you think farmers don't need subsidies you are an ignorant fool. Farming is the most high risk business in this control. Everything relies on mother nature which is the one thing that no person can control. Farmers are at the complete mercy of mother nature and can experience many years of drought of floods which ruin crops. Without subsidies most people wouldn't become farmers because of the risks of loosing everything in a bad year. And just so you know farm subsidies only account for one-tenth of 1 percent of the United States budget. Farmers on the only businessmen in America that buy everything at retail sale everything at wholesale and pay the shipping both ways and you say they don't deserve subsidies? America has to have its farmers without them we wouldn't have enough food to feed ourselves and we would have to begin important food sprayed with dangerous chemicals that have been outlawed in the U.S. Without subsidies no farming operations would be able to survive during bad years and when there are no farmers everyone is naked and hungry.

How do farmers in Australia and New Zealand survive with no subsides at all. To us you all live in a fake economy. Why not let the world market set your prices and see how your production systems stack up with out subsidies and government insurance schemes. Not to say things are rosey here. Cheap imports of veggies form countries like china are ruining our cropping Industry with our government more concerned with cheap food for the people rather than the farming community

 

[Eggbert]

Nate - if crop insurance was not subsidized its cost would obviously go up.  However, how many of the other input costs would go down as a result?  How much would the cost of cash rent or land go down if subsidies for crop insurance were removed?  If the "guarantee of profit" was removed...wouldn't farmers be less likely buy land for $20,000 /acre in Iowa or pay $500/acre for cash rent?  So you would pay more for crop insurance, but you would pay less for cash rent.

I also agree that nearly all industries are subsidized to a certain degree...but that doesn't mean that it is okay.  Subsidies or other government interventions create bubbles...such as the one that I laid out above or the recent housing bubble.  Let's say that legislators do the right thing and make cuts to the federal budget in a year or two. I know this is unlikely when they can print money but if they eliminate crop insurance or reduce the level it is subsidized significantly do you really think cash rents or land prices can be maintained?  I don't think so.  How much of a hardship will that be for farmers when they purchased land at 15,000 and it is now worth 8,000?

 

So you all are saying we should take away crop insurance from everyone because some of the big, medium, small outfits aren't honest. 

just get the government out of it.  why is this so hard to understand?

If we can have affordable crop insurance with out the gov. then bring it on.  I'm all for it.  Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[knabe]

Nate - if crop insurance was not subsidized its cost would obviously go up. 

reaaaaaaaaally.  does that factor in the amount of subsidy as well as the infrastructure and personnel to manage it?

subsidies only hide costs, defer it, reduce competition, raise costs, increase paperwork, picks winners and losers, gives greater benefits to "minorities".

all these things and others, drives up the cost and drives out competition.

 

[hamburgman]

Eggbert enlighten me on how being on the gold standard would solve our problems.

 

[chappy6655]

subsidies may be needed by some but the truth these days is that  90% of all subsidies go to 10% of all farmers and those are NOT the 10% that need it. The system needs to be fixed to kick out the ones that don't need it.

 

[aj]

Anybody remember Jimmy Carters embargo of wheat to Russia? Anbody remember that inflation rate? Alot of farmers went bust in the 80's. We need to keep the inflation rate low(cost of borrowing) now ogama is printing money. The price of fuel is a killer. The new thing a miggers that Ofama's epa required on all new tractors and combines is goofy and expensive. fertilizer is based on fuel prices. epa regs can kill the farmer. The obama care has already destroyed two ag companies here. They dropped most of full timers. Farming will always be a game of efficiencies unless smaller niches are found. Sustainable agriculture organic on and on. I think a land price bust is coming. If osama gets inflation rocking up to a 10% level then you ain't seen nothing yet. Inflation kills the worker and the little guy worse than anything else.jmo

 

[knabe]

inflation is a tool to allow those who cause it to buy low and sell high in low margin segments of the economy.

 

[Aussie]

Aussie...I do have to point out that the Australian dollar is also a fiat currency (is not backed by gold, silver, or other commodities).  So...is Australia on a similar path as the US?

Our economy is being held up by iron ore exports to China. Mining is keeping us a float not a good place to be. If your economy was stronger our dollar would be weaker making our exporters more even more competitive on the world stage.

The price of fuel is a killer.

AJ just how cheap do you want fuel. Your fuel would have to be the cheapest by a long way in the western world and you still can not make it work.

 

[aj]

I want fuel to be priced at what the market will bear. I want it priced at what the free market prices. I want that obama to get the hell out of the way and turn the entrepenuers. If he wants to pick winners and losers how about this. Ban lawn fertizers from using petroleum products! That would piss a million people off in the foothills of Colorado. Make it all natural manure bagged by the livestock industry. This would cut down on petroleum use in lawn fertilizer. You know what would happen? A black market of people seeking ag fertilizer cause its cheaper. Then the good ole big government.......beacause they are so smart would start a trillion dollar bureacracy to unforce there stupid law. GET BIG GOVERNMENT THE HELL OUT OF MICRO MANAGING STUFF! THEY ALWAYS SCREW IT UP. The free market will set the prices......PERIOD.

 

[aj]

Aussie come on out to Eastern Colorado and I will show you how to be fucking competitive.

 

[knabe]

Aussie come on out to Eastern Colorado and I will show you how to be ****ing competitive.

With what?  Low birth weight high percentage shorthorns with performance in numbers to sell bulls outside your area and even semen and embryos internationally with carcass merit at a premium to CAB cause you retain ownership?