What am I missing here????

[box6rranch]

I know we don't go all over the country to show and I am probably totally naive about this but we were in the Junior PACE Shorthorn show today. The judge pulled the class line up book out on both classes we were in and walked up and down the line glancing at the cow and then at the book. Is this typical? How can a judge be impartial looking at who owns the cows and their breeding? He even made mention in one of the classes that he placed the cow in first place partially based on her genetics. Honestly, the cow was crippled !!! I just don't get it????? Hopefully the Open Show judge can judge based on his expertise tomorrow and leave the class list in the barn and in the stands where they belong!

 

[knabe]

there must be more to the story.  if a judge did that and i was on the committee, i would probably mention that the judge should have to rationalize that on the mike.

 

[feeder duck]

Welcome to the American Shorthorn Assoc. Shows. Politics,BS and the Shorthorn Mafia......NUFF SAID!!!!!!!

 

[irh]

It's not just in the shorthorn breed, although I've never seen anyone take a book out and look at it.  The mafia, is at any show, it's hard to pay the fee's for these shows knowing when your going in who is going to win.  It has been proven over and over, and I don't want to hear that the best animal is winning either!

 

[aj]

They were probably looking at the darn wda figure. This figure has all but destroyed the breeds usfullness. Thats why we have 2,000 pound cows and 115 birth weights. jmo

 

[box6rranch]

there must be more to the story.  if a judge did that and i was on the committee, i would probably mention that the judge should have to rationalize that on the mike.

He didn't even make mention about the cow's structure that placed higher. Just some basic comments and definitely said something about the genetics. And yes, he blatantly pulled the class line up book out of his back pocket and openly walked up and down the cows looking at the book in both of the classes we were in. It was pretty discouraging.

 

[ATOZ]

I love watching guys tail in calves that they have sold so the judge can see them !!! If the judge wants to look at numbers than just give him numbers and no calf or farm names. JMO

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Welcome to the American Shorthorn Assoc. Shows. Politics,BS and the Shorthorn Mafia......NUFF SAID!!!!!!!Amen Ive spent $tens  of thousands at thier sales-over 18 years-and when I needed help=I called the bigshot sale managers to try and sell ANYTHING-and didnt get a call back, or any response. I purchased embryos 2 years ago and cant get my money back-or the embryos-If it wasnt for Dave McFarland-I would really be in a jam. What few I will have left are going to be moderate BW clubby-probably x-breds-even if they dont bring much at least there is a market,with people who have some respect for what you are doing O0

 

[shortdawg]

There was a thread on hear after L'ville about the judge(s) considering EPD's and that is what he was doing. I don't know what all else was on the sheet but I do know that in the meeting yesterday there was a recommendation from a committee that the judges no longer have access to the EPD's for future shows. I agree !! That show lasted forever ! FWIW I thought the best animals ended up winning anyway. I watched all the shows yesterday.

 

[OH Breeder]

Pedigree and what's in the book should not count in a live evaluation of an animal. I think that is POOR on the judges part. Who cares how they are bred if they ahve the right parts that is what is should be evaluated on the day of the show. I noticed no one mentioned the judge. Is appropriate to ask who the judge was?

 

[CAB]

Well the info is more than likely worth about nothing b/c we all know that the correct BD is not commonly listed.

  If you want to try to change things, I think that you need to mention the questionable practices to the powers that be. It won't get changed by calling sour grapes here. JMO.

 

[OH Breeder]

Well the info is more than likely worth about nothing b/c we all know that the correct BD is not commonly listed.

  If you want to try to change things, I think that you need to mention the questionable practices to the powers that be. It won't get changed by calling sour grapes here. JMO.

CAB- there are alot of March the 5th calves and April 1. That is the way they are synched. They are just growthy. It is all those Trump genes. I think some parts of the country use a different calendar and it is longer than others. I wasn' t sure if you knew about the calendars. 

 

[MYT Farms]

Well the info is more than likely worth about nothing b/c we all know that the correct BD is not commonly listed.

  If you want to try to change things, I think that you need to mention the questionable practices to the powers that be. It won't get changed by calling sour grapes here. JMO.

CAB- there are alot of March the 5th calves and April 1. That is the way they are synched. They are just growthy. It is all those Trump genes. I think some parts of the country use a different calendar and it is longer than others. I wasn' t sure if you knew about the calendars. 

Huh, seems that I looked at some pretty mature spring Angus heifers last year. Not all calendars are made equal. But I play the game honestly and that's all you can do. It makes winning that much sweeter.

 

[CAB]

Thanks OHB. Now I can say that I learned something new today when my wife asks me how my day was. !!!

 

[SWMO]

Politics unfortunately are a part of the game.  I have no knowledge of the shorthorn show didn't watch it.  I don't like to see the name game played.  I particularly don't like politics trickle down into the Junior shows.  However, some of this is good life lessons. Life is never going to be fair.  Typically if you are not the winner you are not going to agree with the judge.  We always take what we feel are class winning animals  however, sometimes the judge just doest see it the way that we do. :

Are you sure that epd's were not being used in the show.  Epd shows can be vastly different than strictly live evaluation.

 

[shortdawg]

EPD's were being used as I stated earlier. Kyle Rozeboom of Minnesota judged Jr Heifers, Cliff Orley of PA judged Plus heifers, and Clint Ruck of SD judged bulls with Rex Tribbett of IN being Associate Judge

 

[loveRedcows]

Gave up going to them years ago because of it -- at the red angus national shows it was EXTREMELY  important to the judges who the sire of the calf was!  I won't even get into what I think of using EPDs in a show...

 

[Cattledog]

Gave up going to them years ago because of it -- at the red angus national shows it was EXTREMELY  important to the judges who the sire of the calf was!  I won't even get into what I think of using EPDs in a show...

I guess my problem with epds being used in a cattle show is that there is no scenario to judge how the epds should be used.  They just end up going with the biggest spread.  I imagine that there are people out there that don't want an extremely high milking cow just as some people don't want a huge yearling weight, as it correlates with height.  To me....without scenarios epds are just silly.

Let the commercial man have the epds and let the showring have the phenotype evaluation.

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

I'm pretty sure that unless you are new to this site - you already know what I think about EPD's. So I'll leave it at that.RW

 

[GONEWEST]

And you know I'm with RW. I think it's funny the shorthorn assn wanted to remove EPD's from consideration while the Simmental Assn believes the world will stop spinning if  a judge doesn't use them. MOST of the judges will tell you privately that they only use them to give reasons that reasons benefit the animal they selected by live evaluation in the first place, in order to make the cronies believe they actually pay attention to them.