What is the difference?

[itk]

All this talk about size and performance got me wondering. Where is the line drawn between quick patterend, early maturing cattle and moderate framed cattle. Also, on the other end of the spectrum how do you separate growthy, high performing from cattle that are just way to big? I know most of us aim for the middle of the bell curve on growth but where is the line drawn on both ends?

 

[red]

Good point! I know my cows are bigger frame than most. That's why I look to bulls that downsize them. I think you can have troubles at either scale, although TJ & Dori might argue w/ me on the small size! 

What do you look for in your herd/ steers?

Red

 

[itk]

I know there are different conditions and ways of feeding cattle but I like our heifers to weight around 800# at a year. We do make exceptions for calves out of first calf heifers and such however. We also won't use a bull with a YW under1150 and a BW over 100#. We have no top end as far as size and weight as long as they can keep a good body score under our management system. Voyager weighted 2860 in Louisville when he was shown and was almost 150# bigger then Fear Factor who was the second biggest bull there.

 

[shortyjock89]

Voyager was that big??? Wow, I remember looking at him as a calf.  Denny was pondering on whether to show him at our state fair.  I told him he had better.  But then again, I think I was only 14 or 15 lol. 

 

[itk]

To me Voyager was fed to grow to his full genetic potential and he did. Had he been born somewhere else he might have topped out 300# lighter but who is to say. That is why it is so hard to guess the true growth potential of some of these animals that are given tlc from the day they are born.

 

[red]

I agree ITK! We had a young man buy a feeder steer last year. He nows weiges 1100#. The steers in our feedlot don't come close to that. Maybe the nephew needs to revamp his ration but I think the steer has just gotten better feed & more TLC.

Red

 

[fluffer]

If you put a pencil to it, a 1300 lb cow is ideal.  At least for me.  There are a couple of reasons for this.
A 1300 lb cow has less inputs then a bigger cow.  You can run more 1300 lb cows on the same acres when compairing them to larger cows.  A 1300 lb cow may not wean off quite as big of a calf but with more cows you will wean off more combine total pounds out of your herd.  
I challenge each of you to weigh your cows this spring when you vaccinate, AI, or wean calves off and see how big your cows are.  I bet most of you will be surprised.  I know I will be when we weigh ours.  We have some big ole girls in our group.

Another surprising fact is that on average British cattle are larger then Continental cattle.  

We are going to start making selections in our herd to bring down our cow size.  It is more economical and profitable.

fluffer

 

[aj]

I think different cattle have different growth curves. I know the old Shorthorn bull Impact 2 had daughters that got big. They would calve out at 1000#. They would have their second calf weighing 1500#. They would weigh 2000# on there 3rd calf. I think it is better for cattle to grow fast and earlier and then mature out at a smaller size. There is no economical value for cattle to continue to grow when they are 5 years old(unless we go to a grass fed program like the old huge longhorn cattle who were harvested at 5 years old). Unless the salvage value of cow gets to be tremendous I don't think 2000# cows are nessecarily good. I sure think there is alot of upside to downsizing cow size in the industry. :-*

 

[dori36]

Good point! I know my cows are bigger frame than most. That's why I look to bulls that downsize them. I think you can have troubles at either scale, although TJ & Dori might argue w/ me on the small size! 

What do you look for in your herd/ steers?

Red

You won't get an argument from me, Red.  Although I have raised Lowlines and love what they can do, my real knowledge base comes from the commercial side.  The end result of any bovine is to be eaten - whatever the path may be to get there.  If the finished steer doesn't "fit in the box", they aren't worth as much when sold out of the feedlot.  Today's feeders are looking for cattle finishing efficiently with  a yield grade of 2 +/- , grading at least select, and grading choice will give the owner a bonus at payment time.  So, to me, a 1200 to 1350 pound cow is ideal and is what I had mostly in my non-Lowlines.  Half and higher percentage Lowline I have fed (and I admit there havent been zillions of them) have usually finished at around 1000 to 1100.  For the commercial prodcer with larger framed cows, I'd consider using Lowline genetics to downsize, to improve marbling and grading scores, and to encourage an earlier finishing animal.  Here's one of my "regular" sized cows in her working clothes, a BueLingo whose  calf, GNS Paddy , won multiple Gr. Championships in the % Lowline Bull  Divisions.  She's in Montana now.  I think when Paddy's owners had him collected last year, he weighed in at about 1300 lbs.

 

[knabe]

growth curves are not reported very well.  in most organisms, early maturity usually results in a smaller terminal size.  there are exceptions of course.  one of the most interesting differences between europe and the us, is the age in which beef are slaughtered and what the quality expectations are.

 

[shorthorns r us]

Another surprising fact is that on average British cattle are larger then Continental cattle.  

heavier or bigger?  there is an important difference in my book.

 

[P-F]

If you put a pencil to it, a 1300 lb cow is ideal.  At least for me.  There are a couple of reasons for this.
A 1300 lb cow has less inputs then a bigger cow.  You can run more 1300 lb cows on the same acres when compairing them to larger cows.  A 1300 lb cow may not wean off quite as big of a calf but with more cows you will wean off more combine total pounds out of your herd. 
I challenge each of you to weigh your cows this spring when you vaccinate, AI, or wean calves off and see how big your cows are.  I bet most of you will be surprised.  I know I will be when we weigh ours.  We have some big ole girls in our group.

Another surprising fact is that on average British cattle are larger then Continental cattle. 

We are going to start making selections in our herd to bring down our cow size.  It is more economical and profitable.

fluffer

Not only weigh them but actually frame score your cattle.

Most people have know idea how big a frame 6 really is, and for that matter a frame 4

I think most people would be really surprised

 

[shorthorns r us]

Body condition scoring can be extremely beneficial.

 

[fluffer]

Another surprising fact is that on average British cattle are larger then Continental cattle.  

heavier or bigger?  there is an important difference in my book.

You visualizing some ugly tube gutted 7 frame Gelbvieh cow that only weighs 1300 next to a fat broody 5.5 fame 1700 lb Angus cow  ;D

I think you can take it either way, both frame and weight.  I never really thought about it, but in our herd our PB angus cows are taller and heaver then our pb Gelbvieh, SImmy, or X cows.

Fluffer

 

[shorthorns r us]

probably make more money off that gelbvieh than that angus cause she is FAT.  even heavy bred, she is still FAT.  you're talking 53" tall and 1700#.  i think she is a little overfed.

 

[SDCC]

probably make more money off that Gelbvieh than that Angus cause she is FAT.  even heavy bred, she is still FAT.  you're talking 53" tall and 1700#.  i think she is a little overfed.

I think you  missed the point fluffer was making, The Angus cow is capable of getting fat on the same amount of feed as the Gelbvieh, where as a Gelbvieh of this body type  described will not.Thin cows that don't breed back don't make you any money. I am currently running some 5.5 to 6 frame score, stout broody Angus cows with a group of frame score 7 Simmies that weigh about 1500 pounds I am feeding them all enough to keep the Simmi cows in body condition score 5 and the they just maintain where as the Angus cows keep getting fatter.The Angus calves that where born last spring from these cows are about 200 pounds heavier than the Simmental calves right now. With grain prices as high as they are half of those hard doing Simmentals had to leave my place. If I had it to do over I  would have sold the Simmental calves off as feeders they are just going to take to much grain to finish out. My Angus steers are 12 to 13 months old and are close to being finished and will weigh 1200 to 1300 pounds in another month or 2. 

 

[fluffer]

I was just imagining what SRU was seeing (the difference between heavier and bigger)  I was trying convey the point that Contenintal cattle on average are smaller and as a result lighter then the average brittish cattle.  I hope I have neither of these examples in my herd.  The less lbs of a healthy cow you have to maintain the better off you bank account will be- if that makes any sence 

Fluffer