What would the Shorthorn breed look like today if Improver was never imported

[knabe]

I enjoy debates......discussions.....debates.....brain exercises.

no you don't.  you like being a troll about show cattle.


you are not receptive to change, and don't provide any.

 

[knabe]

I wanna know if heatwave is dsc. I wanna know if crossbreds can be tested for dsc. I wanna know if any heatwave sons are dsc's. I wanna know if the the ABS Red Angus bull that read about last night is any good......the one from Australia.

i wanna know, i wanna know.  blah blah blah.


why don't you just make something.

 

[nativeman]

UB or what ever the what your name is,I don't know when the last time you saw any Modern Dairy Rat Natives, but evidently you are just shooting off at the mouth again and behind the times. The modern dairy/ beef natives are striving for a middle of the road dually shorthorn. The dennis hoffroggees,haumonts,jack barnes,Delldale Farms, Harley headings herds are striving for this type. when was the last time you visited one of these herds?The eastern duallies that you bash all the time, are where a lot of good seed stock has come from in the past and is due a little more respect.Old Otis Fisher kept the cattle propagated in the east for many years,while people like yourself back here never did anything I know about to help the breed.

 

[nativeman]

Here is a 3 quarter Native Dairy Rat with a splash of irish way back on mothers side

 

[mark tenenbaum]

UB or what ever the what your name is,I don't know when the last time you saw any Modern Dairy Rat Natives, but evidently you are just shooting off at the mouth again and behind the times. The modern dairy/ beef natives are striving for a middle of the road dually shorthorn. The dennis hoffroggees,haumonts,jack barnes,Delldale Farms, Harley headings herds are striving for this type. when was the last time you visited one of these herds?The eastern duallies that you bash all the time, are where a lot of good seed stock has come from in the past and is due a little more respect.Old Otis Fisher kept the cattle propagated in the east for many years,while people like yourself back here never did anything I know about to help the breed.

/// Apparantly you arent aware of: UB Mad Max, Deertrail T Bone,Studley, LGS Jackson,Abertees Awesome-(They were all National Show winners at: Illinois State Fair, Denver,Louisville Etc,Not to mention some pretty decent animals that werent shown--I wont start listing females like Deertrail Moona lisa,dam of one of the most preponent lines in the "not up to date" currant Shorthorn breed)Ub DTR Junior Walker: had one calf crop with 8 Midwest state fair and Junior National hiefer winners and3 all american hiefer nominess-VA and MD -3 years that I had 6 cows in VA: UB Fleetfoot-used by Bill Davidson,and High Hope cattle (I think) The Bramble Hill Bull I bred that went to Brawns in Southern Md-UB Kamalla-owned by Terry Sewell and later by a guy up near Union Brige-and sire of a Kimillhill Hiefer you apparantly purchased,"God help her" someone elses words not mine: 2 bulls to Farnely Farm-I bull to a limo breeder in Va-another young bull to MR Walker in Va that was on the young sire summary-1994 .Lets see your list-especially of UPDADATED HURD BULLZ PEOPLE are actually using: my limited nimber of cattle have to pass muster in places like Kansas, Oklahoma, Iowa, Illinois, Texas, Oklahoma etc-how many of yours ever made it out of Harford County md-Frederick County Md etc.And how many commercial breeders lately have used your genetics? Because I talked to you once a long time ago and you were using Chi genetics like GR Combo-Rodeo Drive from people you bought from etc-just like everybody else when the ayatollah era cattle became the kiss of death and "with the times" genetics demanded a change.I looked at Otis fischers several times back then-and along with Irish genetics (anything but native) he used Moombi Powerplay and produced a pretty decent loooking bull-of course you are aware Powerplay (sire Wyarama Pepper questionable Austrailian club calf bull) like Enticer were basically predecessors to the club calf deal and were both part Maine.How do I know the Australian deal-Byland Explosian-out of one of my cows-was exported to Australia and the Leeds filled me in.PS the black Shorthorn calf pictured looks a little frail but interesting to the uniniated : probably not to the purists of MD.O0

 

[aj]

Native man.....there are certain cartels on this board that you do not mess with unless you wanna be blasted by the gang of 8. Just be aware. You will be in for a beating.

 

[aj]

Verbal beating that is.

 

[Gargan]

Here is a 3 quarter Native Dairy Rat with a splash of irish way back on mothers side

Mediocre sale barn cattle! 25¢ back tho at best there.. Just my opinion!

 

[aj]

One twist to the story that fascinates me.......DS would probably not been figured out or really reported because the defects weren't that terrible bad......but when a ds carrier, that was also a phac was involved the defects were pretty bad, really brought on attention. For whatever reason the ds defective calves with a phac status are bad news. If there were no phac's out there......ds defective calves would have been passed off as an enviroment caused deals or whatever. So in theory the ds deal wouldn't have been figured out without the pha acting synergistically.

 

[aj]

If there were no pha carrier cattle in the country......ds would not have been discovered......that would be a whole new ballgame. But now what do you do? The tooth paste is out of the tube.

 

[OH Breeder]

Native man.....there are certain cartels on this board that you do not mess with unless you wanna be blasted by the gang of 8. Just be aware. You will be in for a beating.

How many more years are you going to play the victim?  <deadhorse>
You get what you give in life. You put controversial statements out there you will get controversial replies. You go for someone personally they will go for you personally. Funny thing about life.

 

[knabe]

Native man.....there are certain cartels on this board that you do not mess with unless you wanna be blasted by the gang of 8. Just be aware. You will be in for a beating.

The only cartel on here is you.  Same crap over and over and over.  Again, make something.  We get it.  You can't.

 

[knabe]

How many more years are you going to play the victim?  <deadhorse>

Forever. He's the cabal, cartel whatever of negativity.

 

[librarian]

why...

 

[librarian]

even if aj brought this on himself somehow, which is plausible, winter is tiresome enough without SP going sour.  I'm sorry I said Improver looked more like a Goat than a Galloway...
I still dont understand about the original Deerpark Leader--not Dividend- but the first Deerpark Leader.
Did he throw a different kind of cow?

 

[aj]

I don't know if it is true or not......but it looks like the Shorthorn shows are trending towards cattle that are carriers of genetic defects. If it gets to a point where every class winner is say thc......I don't know.....seems like a bad trend to me.

 

[knabe]

I don't know if it is true or not......but it looks like the Shorthorn shows are trending towards cattle that are carriers of genetic defects. If it gets to a point where every class winner is say thc......I don't know.....seems like a bad trend to me.

Make something troll.

 

[librarian]

Looking at cattle of this era keeps bringing another What If to my mind...
What if, instead of going to Ireland to add frame, the breed had gone to Australia and used more Mandalong animals?
Super Flag seems contemporaneous .Why were the Irish cattle more widely used than the Australian?
http://www.rickpisaturo.com.au/cattle/my-involvement-in-the-cattle-industry/
on 9 consecutive occasions Mandalong Poll Shorthorn bulls at show and sales topped the market. The record for the highest price for a Poll Shorthorn was broken 3 times, $30,000 for Mandalong Super Elephant (P). Mandalong Super Elephant (P) also created history for being the heaviest beef bull ever to be shown at a Sydney Royal Easter Show with a weight of 2735lbs (1240kg). Perhaps the greatest successes go to Mandalong Super Flag (P) sold to Dr. G. Carter of Alberta, Canada at 8 months of age for the record price of the time of $23,793 in 1971. As a2 year old, he was shown at the greatest USA cattle show, The National Western Stock Show, Denver, Colorado. He was awarded the Supreme Shorthorn (polled & horned) Championship, creating history for the first foreign bred bull, including Canada that had ever been awarded such a sash. Further honours due to Flag, when his progeny Crestdale Superflag, after being awarded the Grand Championship was sold for a world record for a Shorthorn bull of $41,500. (Full details in my book)

http://www.mandalongstuds.com.au/history
History
In 1960 Rick Pisaturo Snr purchased Mandalong Park 300 acres then a few years latter another 350 acres in St Marys Sydney.
His dream was to breed cattle like his mentor Mr Badgery.
In 1964 he showed the first Poll Shorthorn Bull at the Sydney Royal Easter Show winning a blue ribbon. In four short years our Poll Shorthorns were acclaimed the best in the world.
Mandalng Poll Shorthorns broke almost every record in Australia.
The first Mandalong Bull Prince was shown in 1964. Among the successes with the Shorthorns 5 Grand Champion Bulls at the Sydney Royal Easter Show, 3 Grand Champion Bulls at the Brisbane Ekka and 4 Poll Shorthorn Champion Steers at the Sydney Royal Easter show in 6 years.

 

[oakview]

I don't know about anyone else, but I used the Irish cattle to put that square hip in them and improve the rear half structure in general.  I had used what I considered good duals to improve the frame size and growth rate without losing muscling in the years prior to that.  I purchased Lazy D Ultimate Type (Deerpark Leader X Highfield Una 3rd) in 1982 because of his great style, pattern, and sound structure in a moderate frame.  His dam, Una 3rd, was not a large cow.  Many of the full Irish bulls of the time were not large.  Highfield Rathcannon, Culhane, Hazel Leap 2nd, etc.  To the best of my knowledge, Deerpark Leader 18th was not a large bull.  Dividend became most popular because he seemed to sire the larger framed type that were in demand at the time.  In addition, many beef breeders just had a "thing" about dual purpose cattle, which they disgustingly referred to as "milkers."  The Irish cattle offered them an alternative.  Just my opinion.

 

[Okotoks]

Looking at cattle of this era keeps bringing another What If to my mind...
What if, instead of going to Ireland to add frame, the breed had gone to Australia and used more Mandalong animals?
Super Flag seems contemporaneous .Why were the Irish cattle more widely used than the Australian?
http://www.rickpisaturo.com.au/cattle/my-involvement-in-the-cattle-industry/
on 9 consecutive occasions Mandalong Poll Shorthorn bulls at show and sales topped the market. The record for the highest price for a Poll Shorthorn was broken 3 times, $30,000 for Mandalong Super Elephant (P). Mandalong Super Elephant (P) also created history for being the heaviest beef bull ever to be shown at a Sydney Royal Easter Show with a weight of 2735lbs (1240kg). Perhaps the greatest successes go to Mandalong Super Flag (P) sold to Dr. G. Carter of Alberta, Canada at 8 months of age for the record price of the time of $23,793 in 1971. As a2 year old, he was shown at the greatest USA cattle show, The National Western Stock Show, Denver, Colorado. He was awarded the Supreme Shorthorn (polled & horned) Championship, creating history for the first foreign bred bull, including Canada that had ever been awarded such a sash. Further honours due to Flag, when his progeny Crestdale Superflag, after being awarded the Grand Championship was sold for a world record for a Shorthorn bull of $41,500. (Full details in my book)

http://www.mandalongstuds.com.au/history
History
In 1960 Rick Pisaturo Snr purchased Mandalong Park 300 acres then a few years latter another 350 acres in St Marys Sydney.
His dream was to breed cattle like his mentor Mr Badgery.
In 1964 he showed the first Poll Shorthorn Bull at the Sydney Royal Easter Show winning a blue ribbon. In four short years our Poll Shorthorns were acclaimed the best in the world.
Mandalng Poll Shorthorns broke almost every record in Australia.
The first Mandalong Bull Prince was shown in 1964. Among the successes with the Shorthorns 5 Grand Champion Bulls at the Sydney Royal Easter Show, 3 Grand Champion Bulls at the Brisbane Ekka and 4 Poll Shorthorn Champion Steers at the Sydney Royal Easter show in 6 years.

I'm biased on the topic of Mandalong Super Flag since he was imported by my sister and brother in law. They also brought in Mandalong Royal Ferrari and two Mandalong Roany cows. In the same shipment Terramundi and Hook imported Mandalong Super Francis, Mandalong Royal Ferro and two Mandalong heifers. When my brother in law got the original import permits for Australia his intention was to get some Murray Greys but having seen some Mandalong Royal Ambassador calves he went to Ric Pisatura and ended up with the Mandalong animals. Yesterday on Facebook we were discussing Flags influence on Canadian Shorthorns. I posted about his influence in our current herd sires,  3 of our herd bulls last year don't have Flag  appear in the pedigrees until the 7th generation yet he accounts for 3.78%, 5.98% and 6.49% of their ancestry appearing 49 times, 27 times and 20 times in their pedigrees between the 7th and 12th generations. If you do an extended pedigree in the Canadian herd book there are 5 bulls most likely to show up like that, Mandalong Super Flag, Ball Dee Perfect Count, Deerpark Leader, Deerpark Leader 13th and Deerpark Improver. We actually have three ET yearlings by Flag.
That said we didn't use any dual and kept our herd pure beef breeding with lots of Australian blood until 1982. We then introduced a son of Deerpark Improver 2nd and two grandsons through Deer Trail Goliath. We felt a 1/4 or 3/8 Irish gave us the best of both worlds. Decisions breeders make in their breeding program are usually based on market demand and the need to have a marketable product. You get a lot of what ifs but I doubt we would have been able to sell many purebred cattle over the last 30 plus years if we had not introduced new bloodlines. Some of the best cattle in the history of the breed have been the blending of different bloodlines. Some of the worst have been the blind following of pedigrees to keep a certain bloodline going. That said there are some very useful animals available today because of breeders who stuck to the type they believed in.