When Did Cattle Start Getting So Expensive?

[4sistersshowingwhatwegot]

winners are bred, champions are fed!!

EXACTLY!!!

 

[justintime]

Lonny..... do you remember Louada Bonaparte? He sold a few years previous to Zenith for $30,000. That would have been about 1964-65. If I spent a few minutes in my archives in the attic, I could tell you exactly. I still have all the Louada catalogs and many, many others from that era, and many of them have all the prices and buyers listed. Back in those days, the breed magazines printed the entire sale results so I usually wrote them into the sale catalogs.... it sure beat having to do homework in those days.

As I have posted on here previously, I have often wondered why many people automatically think a high price is phony, and that back room deals were done prior to a sale. I know this does happen, but it doesn't happen in every case. I know many times the money is real, whether it is a show steer, a show heifer, a herd bull or whatever.

Many years ago, four of us partnered to buy a bull calf in one of the Hoyt Central sales at Blair, Nebraska. We paid $30,000 for this calf, which amounted to $7500 each. I think most everyone at the sale thought this was a made up deal, but believe me, it was real. We collected semen on this bull and we sold over $10,000 in semen before we had a calf on the ground from him. The real reason we did this was simply because, Hoyt &Sons agreed to buy every bull calf we wanted to sell at  $1500 US at weaning , that were sired by bulls they had produced. After the sale, we signed an agreement with them for four years. In that four years they took over 150 bull calves from the four of us, at $1500 US , which at that time was close to $2000 Canadian dollars. The bulls were picked up in our yards usually in December, and when the four years were over, we had sold over $225,000 of bulls to them.... a pretty small investment to secure a pretty good market for our bull calves. To this day, I still get asked how much we actually paid for this bull. Even after this many years, I can still see some of their eyes glaze over when I tell them that we paid $30,000 for him. The beauty of this deal was that they told us to keep all the top end bulls, and send them the rest.  We made an investment to secure a market, and all our bulls were sold, and the strange part is that many breeders never did figure this out. To me it was pretty simple math.

I make my living from my cattle. Many of my neighbors have in excess of $2-3 million is machinery for their grain operations. Nobody thinks it is strange when one of them buys a $350,000 combine. Just today, I noticed that one of my neighbors has 6 new JD combines working in the same field. To my guessimate, that alone represents over $2 Million. There were also 3 semi trailers, two grain carts pulled with 4 wheel drive tractors, a couple tandem trucks , and  a fuel truck in this field. No one thinks this farmer is crazy, but most would think he is a successful farmer. Yet, why is it, that if I went to a sale and paid $25,000, for example, for a herd bull, most people I  know, would think I should be committed to an asylum? Is not a herd bull as important as some piece of machinery is to a grain farming neighbour? I could not even buy a good used truck to pull my trailer this amount of money, yet many farms have two or more trucks parked in their yards. Personally, I hope the day comes when these critters are worth a lot more, rather than less, then maybe there would be a decent living in it.

 

[Hofstatter Farms]

money can't always buy you victory.  

Thats were you are wrong, i have seen and heard of so many judges being payed off in the last few years. I'm just saying money can, 99.9% of the time, buy you victory.

 

[blackcows]

Many of my neighbors have in excess of $2-3 million is machinery for their grain operations. Nobody thinks it is strange when one of them buys a $350,000 combine. Just today, I noticed that one of my neighbors has 6 new JD combines working in the same field. To my guessimate, that alone represents over $2 Million. There were also 3 semi trailers, two grain carts pulled with 4 wheel drive tractors, a couple tandem trucks , and  a fuel truck in this field. No one thinks this farmer is crazy, but most would think he is a successful farmer. Yet, why is it, that if I went to a sale and paid $25,000, for example, for a herd bull, most people I  know, would think I should be committed to an asylum? Is not a herd bull as important as some piece of machinery is to a grain farming neighbour? I could not even buy a good used truck to pull my trailer this amount of money, yet many farms have two or more trucks parked in their yards. Personally, I hope the day comes when these critters are worth a lot more, rather than less, then maybe there would be a decent living in it.

Agreed but the difference is that if I spend $350k on a combine my banker is going to let me add it to my balance sheet at about $350k.  If I buy a bull for $10k it is going on my balance sheet at about $800 dollars (salvage value).  I don't disagree that money can be well spent when it comes to cattle but if you aren't working off of cash it's hard. 

Mike

 

[jlingle]

Here's a little different spin on the "why so much for cattle" conversation.  I know of a guy who sells showcalves (I hate to use the term "jock") who has certain clients who won't even make the drive to his farm to look at a calf unless he prices it at $10K or more.  It's in their head that they need to spend a certain amount to be competetive.  Truth be told, the same calf could probably be bought for less money, but they want to spend the money.....  why shouldn't he take it?

 

[oakview]

I do remember the name Louada Bonaparte, I think he was the sire of Rothes King.  We were just starting in Shorthorns when he must have sold and hadn't started getting the Shorthorn World yet.  Last night I remembered a bull called Denend Ragusa that sold for 30,000 at the Perth Sale.  He was a half brother to Bonaparte sired by Bapton Constructor. 

Some of you are correct when you hint that sometimes people think that lower priced calves can't compete.  We offered some pretty good steers several years ago and I remember people calling and asking the prices.  I got the impression that when I told them 1,500 they thought they must not be very good.  The calves later proved that they were very competitive.

 

[AAOK]

money can't always buy you victory.  

Thats were you are wrong, i have seen and heard of so many judges being payed off in the last few years. I'm just saying money can, 99.9% of the time, buy you victory.
[/quote

I strongly diagree.  I do not believe that 99.9% of the Judges are corrupt.  Simple statistics confirm that most people are honest, therefore one may conclude that most Cattle Judges would be honest.  I'm sure some can be bought, and I know that many have friends/partners who might call in a favor.  Let's say 1 in 10 could be swayed by money or friendship (and I think this is way too high).  Our logical deduction would state that money can't always buy you victory.

 

[oakview]

This is a true story.  Judges can be bought.  I judged a show in Minnesota about 15 years ago and accepted a bribe.  I was asked to judge the Minnesota State Shorthorn Show and got to judge the remainder of the breeding cattle as well.  Towards the end of the show, there were two classes of AOB heifers, one heifer in each class.  A young lady brought in a very tall, extreme, Simmental appearing heifer in the first class and the same young lady brought in a very small framed, for the time, black heifer in the second class.  I always enjoyed talking to the exhibitors if possible and got some information from the young lady on the genetics, etc., of her heifers.  At the end of the second class, the young lady had to bring in both heifers so I could select the champion.  A middle aged man, I assumed it was her father, led in the black heifer and the young lady led in the Simmental.  I talked with each of them and learned I was correct in assuming the gentleman was the young lady's father.  I had a difficult time selecting the champion.  One was really too tall and narrow, the other was in dire need of performance.  Finally, I decided we should have some fun with this.  I approached the man and asked him how much it was worth to him if I let him win.  He looked at me, grinned, and asked how much it would cost him.  I motioned towards the pop machine by the door of the show arena and said the fee would be an ice cold Coke at the conclusion of the show.  He agreed to my terms and was declared the winner.  You could make a case for either heifer, they both knew it, and at the end of the show, the man and his daughter brought me a Coke and we got to know each other a little bit.  What a great time.

Seriously, I can't remember a time when I left the show ring feeling that the judge was paid off and really don't think it happens very often.

 

[Hofstatter Farms]

well i am not going to mention what show or any names but one of the shows at the IL state fair was for sure paid off the guys that paid him told me it cost them $3500. also i am very good friends with a guy that judged a county fair, he was called buy seven different people asking him what it would cost to win the show. Also i have also been told by a very reliable source that one of the judges that judged the Shorthorn Jr Nationals had a heifer bought a week before the show and the person that bought her did very very well, and those are just some examples. I am not saying that most people aren't honest, I'm just saying it happens a lot more than you think, some are just less obvious than others.

 

[Ag Man]

Everybody knows how some people trade around calves. But if you think some of those calves that sell between 7k and 15k aren't for real, ask how come Phil Raisback about the one's his Dad bought at Cate's.I know it's crazy but alot of them do sell. In the steer deal I've been with Steve Bonham and watched him write the checks.

I know of three people Bonham still owes money from LAST YEARS sales....yes believe it...thousands of dollars. Might write a check but it ain't for the full price bid.

Bet he won't be back to these people's cattle this year.

 

[Dusty]

Speaking of high priced cattle.  I do know of one that sold this fall for 52k.

 

[showsteerdlux]

Speaking of high priced cattle.  I do know of one that sold this fall for 52k.

Sullivan heifer?

 

[Dusty]

Speaking of high priced cattle.  I do know of one that sold this fall for 52k.

Sullivan heifer?

No. A steer.  I still haven't heard what the sullivan heifer brought...

 

[PLKR]

Speaking of high priced cattle.  I do know of one that sold this fall for 52k.

Sullivan heifer?

No. A steer.  I still haven't heard what the sullivan heifer brought...

Dusty--was that the Eckloff steer?  Lots of talk about him this weekend... Is he headed to Colorado?

 

[justintime]

Sometimes buying cattle is an investment... as opposed to buying a new truck which is just an expense. Maybe I look at things a little differently, as I make almost my entire livelihood from cows. For example, if I buy a female for say, $5000, and she produces several times what I paid for her, in offspring and embryos, I consider her to have been an excellent investment. The same holds true for females that sell for much more than this. I have a couple of cows that would have been excellent investments if I had purchased them at $50,000 as they have both produced over $100,000 in offspring and embryos. Sometimes there are other things to consider. I referenced a heifer I sold for $10,000 US in another thread. The girl who showed her won over $17,000 in college scholarships in the first year she showed her. That sounds to me like she was a good investment for this family, not counting any of her offspring.

 

[doublestuff]

I'm not really thinking its necisary to start throwing names out on this board about people oweing money to anyone unless maybe it is you personally. NOT COOL in my opinion. Show some class.

 

[oneblindgoat]

HIGH prices dont mean anything we paid 700.00 for a steer last year and sold it at Dallas state Fair for 10,000.00

 

[aj]

Thats what I don't like about show cattle....there is so much fluff and puff and merchandizing. The average purebred herd is what...7 years. Then it is sold. There are people who get into a breed. If they go to a sales management deal or promoter they usually get worked over. Then 7 years later they sell out. This is more on a purebred side. If you pay 15,000$ for a heifer it better be considered venture capital. Someone with money who wants to get into a breed usually has a target painted on their chest if they go to a sales consultant. This is not always the case. I think that say in the Shorthorn breed right now 80% of the cattle are strictly showring cattle. The market is based on on jr. heifers that sell for 5,000$. I doubt these cattle ever go into a herd and become cows. Cattle are worth what the market will bear.There is so much room for merchandising show cattle that value can be manipulated. This can be good or bad depending which side of the deal you are on. If you have the money and your self worth is determined on winning a show, you will spend what evre it takes to get there. Then you will sell out and someone else will do it. It can be lucrative for people.

 

[Hofstatter Farms]

Thats what I don't like about show cattle....there is so much fluff and puff and merchandizing. The average purebred herd is what...7 years. Then it is sold. There are people who get into a breed. If they go to a sales management deal or promoter they usually get worked over. Then 7 years later they sell out. This is more on a purebred side. If you pay 15,000$ for a heifer it better be considered venture capital. Someone with money who wants to get into a breed usually has a target painted on their chest if they go to a sales consultant. This is not always the case. I think that say in the Shorthorn breed right now 80% of the cattle are strictly showring cattle. The market is based on on jr. heifers that sell for 5,000$. I doubt these cattle ever go into a herd and become cows. Cattle are worth what the market will bear.There is so much room for merchandising show cattle that value can be manipulated. This can be good or bad depending which side of the deal you are on. If you have the money and your self worth is determined on winning a show, you will spend what evre it takes to get there. Then you will sell out and someone else will do it. It can be lucrative for people.

We show several heifers every year and every one of them goes back into our herd. To me there is no point in showing a heifer if you arent going to use her to produce "show quality" offspring. If thats the case then you should be showing steers.

 

[stick]

Good point aj, how many of the "supposedly" high dollar cattle every end up producing. I know of a herd that has an annual fall sale of "high dollar" cattle. For the last 4 years they've shown a heifer in their flyer that sold for $10000 back in '05. I did a pedigree check on this animal on the Shorthorn Assn website. The breeder is listed as the owner. Whats more, a progeny check shows that no calves have been registered out of this animal.