Who thinks this is the same calf????? I am not impressed!!!!

[chappy]

Ok everyone there are allot of big name people that buy cattle off of just a photo. I have personally done business with Raymond and he is a good guy. To be honest i have bought now 2 promo bulls off of photos and Raymond has been a big reason why i bought both of them he has a good eye for good cattle. so yes it happends. to me i don't think it is the same calf but it is to hard to prove unless u have DNA or he is registered in a breed association.  i personally bought a young open heifer for allot of money never showed her turns out she had no ovaries and would not breed. we shipped her cost to much to keep them and as far as 500 in legal fees try 10 to 20 times that amount due to the fact it is not solved in small claimes court. Attorney that specialize in cattle or horses are not cheap where I'm at 150+ an hour that adds up real fast. There is and always will be crooks out there in our society that have no morals or integrity in this business and lets all be honest here it is a business.  Heck as we speak i am dealing with a huge breeder in Iowa that i bought 6 open heifers from in 09 spring sale none ever shown. all of them have been running with bulls for 90 to 120 days and guess what 5 of six are open and we pulled blood not just stuck an arm in. You know what that breeder told me sorry for you loss but hey look at what cattle are bringing at the sale barn at least you will get a fare amount for them there. Say what. I will never do business with that family again. Raymond sorry for your loss i know how it feels.

 

[mlazyj]

This is off the topic , but if you bought open heifers and brought them home to your bulls , how is the seller responsable for them getting bred ? He sold them open .  I'am sure you paid a load of money for them , did you get at least a  pelvic exam ?

 

[OH Breeder]

Ok everyone there are allot of big name people that buy cattle off of just a photo. I have personally done business with Raymond and he is a good guy. To be honest i have bought now 2 promo bulls off of photos and Raymond has been a big reason why i bought both of them he has a good eye for good cattle. so yes it happends. to me i don't think it is the same calf but it is to hard to prove unless u have DNA or he is registered in a breed association.  i personally bought a young open heifer for allot of money never showed her turns out she had no ovaries and would not breed. we shipped her cost to much to keep them and as far as 500 in legal fees try 10 to 20 times that amount due to the fact it is not solved in small claimes court. Attorney that specialize in cattle or horses are not cheap where I'm at 150+ an hour that adds up real fast. There is and always will be crooks out there in our society that have no morals or integrity in this business and lets all be honest here it is a business.  Heck as we speak i am dealing with a huge breeder in Iowa that i bought 6 open heifers from in 09 spring sale none ever shown. all of them have been running with bulls for 90 to 120 days and guess what 5 of six are open and we pulled blood not just stuck an arm in. You know what that breeder told me sorry for you loss but hey look at what cattle are bringing at the sale barn at least you will get a fare amount for them there. Say what. I will never do business with that family again. Raymond sorry for your loss i know how it feels.

I am not a lawyer by no means. spent a year in law schoool that means nothing. BUT

I hear alot of speculation but no one wants to do anything about getting RIPPED OFF. Part of your problems is it seems no one ever inspected the animal prior to ACCEPTING delivery. There are alot of crooks out there. They all don't live in the city either. I have met some great people on this internet board and had good outcome doing business.

Have you ever dealt with a legal matter and small claims court? I had a guy take a bull and agreed to pay at a later date. Well 3 months went by then 6 months went by then a year. You don't have to have a "special" attorney. Animals are property (chatels) and you just need an attorney that deals in personal property law. They don't have to "specialize in cattle". The attorney charged me $125 for a half hours worth of work. And in a matter of 2 days I had money in hand. Its no different than buying a car if its a lemon its a lemon. Most attorneys give you a free consultation and the average filing fees for small claims court are $30-50. Large claims up to $15,000 cost up to $200.00. Small claims courts were built to NOT get lawyers involved. You don't have to have one in court. Selling livestock is a business just like any other. and AGAIN if you spent $1000 to get your money back isn't it worth it?

 

[Truthful 101]

Didn't mean to get anybody on the defense I just noticed that there were valid questions that were left unanswered.  I wasnt saying steerjockey isnt capable of seeing cattle right.  I just thought after looking at the picture that the animal wouldnt fit in as a promo.  That was my opinion not an attack.  Unless the pedigree was something rare that would bring value to the industry, it is still my opinion.

 

[cornershack]

This is off the topic , but if you bought open heifers and brought them home to your bulls , how is the seller responsable for them getting bred ? He sold them open .  I'am sure you paid a load of money for them , did you get at least a  pelvic exam ?

most females purchased open or not are intended to be bred at some time and many breeders have an understanding that they will be able to produce offspring.  am i wong? 

 

[flacowman]

I have always been given verbal guarantee that females (heifers and cows, bred, open, and with calves) and have always given that same verbal guarantee to my customers.  Personally I'm not sure I would want to deal with anyone that didn't guarantee their cattle for at least some period of time.  I also guarantee bulls to breed the first season and 2 more barring injury on the farm and only ever had one problem out of several hundred since my grandfather started selling purebred bulls years ago

 

[mainecattlemother]

This may be a little of the subject but somebody might want to hear a good note.  We purchased a bull off just a picture but it was on cwcattle sales and it was a bull from Jeff Holmes.  He looked pretty decent from the pictures but definately not top of the line.  I was a little hesitant to bid.  He is definately not a promo bull in my eyes but when we picked him up last Saturday I was very very surprised as he looked far superior than the pictures and will make a good clean up pull for my childrens show stock and our older cows.  If you would like to see the bull he is Lot #1 under Holmes Show Cattle.  We only pd $2500.00 and I think we got a whale of a deal.  We will see in November as he is already at work.

 

[CAB]

This may be a little of the subject but somebody might want to hear a good note.  We purchased a bull off just a picture but it was on cwcattle sales and it was a bull from Jeff Holmes.  He looked pretty decent from the pictures but definately not top of the line.  I was a little hesitant to bid.  He is definately not a promo bull in my eyes but when we picked him up last Saturday I was very very surprised as he looked far superior than the pictures and will make a good clean up pull for my childrens show stock and our older cows.  If you would like to see the bull he is Lot #1 under Holmes Show Cattle.  We only pd $2500.00 and I think we got a whale of a deal.  We will see in November as he is already at work.

Very good looking bull. Looks like Hook may have earns his money the day that he shot the video of your bull.
Did your bull pass a semen ck this young?If so he must have some fertility bred in.

 

[firesweepranch]

I have always been given verbal guarantee that females (heifers and cows, bred, open, and with calves) and have always given that same verbal guarantee to my customers.  Personally I'm not sure I would want to deal with anyone that didn't guarantee their cattle for at least some period of time.  I also guarantee bulls to breed the first season and 2 more barring injury on the farm and only ever had one problem out of several hundred since my grandfather started selling purebred bulls years ago

Out of all of the heifers we bought, we had two that did not take to AI (we have no bull). The first one (who is now our awesome recip), the breeder GLADLY put her in with one of their TOP bulls, and the resulting calf was the bull we showed last year and sold off the cow for good money. He did very well at shows, and the cow is now raising her second calf, our embryo. The other heifer was the one in my avitar, and after showing hard she just would not stick. Since she came from Collins and I did not want to take her that far away, I found a local bull to put her with and she took on her first heat cycle (not a very good resulting calf). My 14 year old daughter AI'd her on her second heat after calving (60 days) to Mo Better and she has passed over one cycle all ready. Both cases the breeder of the heifer was willing to do what it took to make sure our heifers got bred. That is just good business!

 

[DiamondMCattle]

Well it seems to me the calf in the pictures has a heck of a clip job and the one in the video has never seen a set of clippers. Thats just an obvious difference.

 

[the one]

Looks like the same one to me. Didnt u go look at him in person? I would if it was me. Don't worry everyone fucks up just some more then others an this is a pure example of it my friend. sorry steerjockey

 

[ZNT]

Unfortunately, they do appear to be the same calf, but definitely still issues that need to be addressed.

A lesson learned is to always pick up the cattle you purchase as soon as you can.  No point risking a good one on someone else's management, and if they are at your place, you only have yourself to blame for one not being fed right.

Good luck with your situation Raymond.

 

[steerjockey]

Looks like the same one to me. Didnt u go look at him in person? I would if it was me. Don't worry everyone ****s up just some more then others an this is a pure example of it my friend. sorry steerjockey

its pretty easy for you to talk smack about me when you hide behind a username....your a coward

 

[jason]

I do appreciate that the breeder was not specifically named, since they don't appear be present to defend themselves.  I do and have always allowed a person put to "pm for details" if they wanted to warn people about a business in a deal gone wrong.

 

[the one]

so your saying that everyone on here is? i was just saying the facts its a bussiness that everyone gets fucked over time to time you just got to roll with it an learn from it. thats wat i was getting at. i dont know where u get off saying that stuff when u dont even know me or do i know you>

 

[WBar Farms]

doesn't seem like he was even talking crap

 

[Truthful 101]

That was unnesesary!!!  Steerjockey, it is clear that you made a poor descision and are now licking your wounds. With the information you provided that is aparent.  If you can't handle debate, maybe you should have refrained from offering this topic up for just that!!  When you respond in such an unprofessional way do you think that people are going to want to do business with you?  If you haven't forgotten you have a link to your cattle company. 

 

[justme]

Did you at least DNA him before you shippped him?  You could have at least found out if he was the genetics you were told he was.  Just a thought...

 

[walter]

It is obvious this calf was sick with a high fever for a long time. The calf either did not respond to the drugs, or he was not treated on time or just left go way too long. If this was my calf I raised I would give their money back immediately. Secondly I don't buy cattle with my money just on a picture. I am just an old duffer and have learned things the hard way. I think both parties should  learn from this mess.

 

[MCC]

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