Would you...

[DLD]

as much as i like et,it would be hard for me to buy 1 embryo for that amt,unless they are garunteeing(cant spell) one pregnancy.you know the clubby deal is a gamble no matter how or what you do.it is what you as  producer wants from the program.rusty

I'm with you there A3. I was thinking of a guaranteed pregnancy at that price, not just a frozen embryo. I might be willing to gamble, but my luck's not good enough for that...

 

[DL]

Will a test ever be developed to test embryos and semen for TH and PHA before implanting or ai ing, or is that still Star Wars?  Look at this embryos question like this, what would a PHAF full brother to Irish Whiskey for example be worth?  It is definately worth a $1200 embryo to try and get it to me.  IF it comes out a bull and C then you have a steer, a female and C you have a  good reciept, and a clean brother or sister then laugh all the way to the bank.

The technology exists to test embryos (and Barrel Racer, genes or knabe can probably add some intelligent thought here too) BUT it is expensive and you need to remove some DNA from the embryo to test it - so (as with all things) there is some risk - I don't know if it will be cheaply and easily available.

A better technology might be to breed for high quality clean cattle  ;D

I don't like Irish Whiskey, I don't like his heifers - so a PHAF sib or son of Irish Whiskey isn't worth squat in my book

DLD - I would never flog you - but I would like to see you and A3 in purple tube tops  (lol) (lol)

What you say makes sense to me given what you are after - would I do it - NOPE - would I do it for $1.95 nope but my goal isn't show steers - and I must say I worry about the female offspring in programs that are only looking for terminal steers....if carriers the could propagate the lethal genetic defects --- on the other hand since a lot of the females that result from the great steer hunt don't breed, don't breed back, don't milk, have a pelvic area the size of an mouse - maybe I worry unnecessarily....

 

[NHR]

I'm with Dragon Lady on this one. I am not trying to produce show steers, i am trying to produce good quality females.

By the way it is raining again in Texas. Just when I thought it was gonna dry out enough to get some work done, here it comes!!!! I'm not complaining!  ???

 

[knabe]

here's a link of biopsied embryo's at cal poly using PCR with pregnancy rates

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:dUH9DGlIXAMJ:ari.calpoly.edu/images/45300%2520Plummer%2520Beckett%2520Final.doc+cal+poly+testing+embryo%27s&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a

here is another link of grants received from cal poly  including some that are relevant to topic
http://ari.calpoly.edu/projects.htm            look at first topic Application of Multiple Marker, Pre-implantation Genetic Testing of Bovine Embryos

i don't know the relative success of these programs, but in theory, it should be doable.  one would have to determine the number of cells stage to do this at.  the comment about the whole genome amplification is interesting as a way to minimize tissue harvest.  DL, is there any tissue associated with an embryo that isn't a part of the embryo, but contains the DNA that could be used for this?  also, is there any tissue in a semen sample, not the semen, but a sloughed vas deferens cell say, that could be used as a source for cloning, say cunia or some other bull?

we routinely use as little as 2.5 ng of dna to do pcr, and others routinely do this using what's called rolling circle amplification to amplify dna from low concentration samples before performing a pcr reaction.  DL probably knows this, but at some stage, all embryo's are female, then they get the signal to be a male.  perhaps this could be detected routinely and cheaply as an alternative, or maybe it's just too far along in the development stage to be routinely implanted again.  don't know that.

 

[DLD]

DLD - I would never flog you - but I would like to see you and A3 in purple tube tops  (lol) (lol)

What you say makes sense to me given what you are after - would I do it - NOPE - would I do it for $1.95 nope but my goal isn't show steers - and I must say I worry about the female offspring in programs that are only looking for terminal steers....if carriers the could propagate the lethal genetic defects --- on the other hand since a lot of the females that result from the great steer hunt don't breed, don't breed back, don't milk, have a pelvic area the size of an mouse - maybe I worry unnecessarily....

Sad but true about the females from some of the show steer matings, DL. I hope you know that much of what I say regarding the club calf deal is me playing the devil's advocate - not that I don't believe in what I say, but I am way conservative as "clubbie" breeders go. I also have very, very low tolerance for genetic defects, structural and fertility problems and much else that can go along with the clubbie deal. You might be surprised to see my cows, very few of which are of popular club calf breeding or type (I've tried a few, they don't seem to last very long for me). Most of the bulls I use may be clubby by your standards, but are considered too "breeding stock" by most clubby breeders. I know the club calf business has more than it's share of issues, but so does the purebred deal, or most anything else where there's a profit to be made and/or a prize to be won. But it also has lots of good people that love good cattle, and kids and the opportunities it has for them.

Oh, and as far as me in a purple tube top goes, be very, very careful what you wish for. It wouldn't be a pretty sight, but I've prob'ly done crazier things.... 8)

 

[pigguy]

i would pay that for the right mating and a garuntee

 

[DL]

pigguy - what would the right mating be and what would you like in the guarantee?

 

[the angus111]

DL, I cant speak for the SW KS PIGGUY,but I believe we need to stick together.I would like to have a confirmed bull pregnancy from a IW mating that was about 120# that lives to make me a huge amt of money as a steer(i knew you would like that).Oh! how about two of them...rusty

 

[DL]

THE A3 - does that mean that you and pigguy are neighbors? Should we call him PG4? Maybe you can get together and buy 2 embryos out of carrier bulls - they could give you a deal ;D

 

[the angus111]

DL, I believe he lives pretty close and probably wishes a little further away,no thanks as you may know i have done that.no luck so far with IW OR SON.what could of been though!rusty

 

[shorthorns r us]

DL - What about IW's PHENOTYPE do you dislike?

 

[DL]

DL - What about IW's PHENOTYPE do you dislike?

Let me start with his offspring - all of the females I have seen and all of the heifer pictures - these females look androgenous - I don't like androgenous females. Since the phenotype is in part determined by the sire I have an issue! 

I have never seen the bull and I don't know if he can walk. He certainly was well promoted. IMHO his yearling picture he is boring - typical hairy black bull - not phenotypically pleasing to me.  I have a picture of him somewhere as a mature bull, and again he doesn't flip my minnow can't give you any specifics - but he is not pleasing to look at (to me). But to me a bigger deal than what he looks like phenotypically is his daughters - if I don't like them I won't use the bull, even if he was as good looking as Humphrey Bogart ;D ;D I like my females to be feminine, sound, fertile, functional and pleasing to the eye (without makeup or expensive hair jobs  ;D ;D

 

[shorthorns r us]

fair enough. accurate description. i like those little tank females though.  agree that many of them could be more feminine. FWIW he could motor pretty good, not perfect but much better than most, when i saw him about a year and a half ago. no it was longer ago than that!

 

[pigguy]

DL, I cant speak for the SW KS PIGGUY,but I believe we need to stick together.I would like to have a confirmed bull pregnancy from a IW mating that was about 120# that lives to make me a huge amt of money as a steer(i knew you would like that).Oh! how about two of them...rusty

i would want the same as rusty but not to make a steer. i think shoiw steers are point less. if they are great showsteers why wouldnt most of them make great sires. me and rusty live about 30 miles away form each other

 

[red]

wow, 30 miles in your neck of the woods make you next door neighbors!

Red

 

[afhm]

DL we'll have to agree to disagree about Irish Whiskey.  I love his daughters and granddaughters.  I have several and am currently using a son of his as well.  I would be 1st in line to buy semen if it went back down.  If it weren't for a unfortunate semen tank accident I would still have some.  What bulls do you like (not just the golden oldies)?

 

[DL]

DL we'll have to agree to disagree about Irish Whiskey.  I love his daughters and granddaughters.  I have several and am currently using a son of his as well.  I would be 1st in line to buy semen if it went back down.  If it weren't for a unfortunate semen tank accident I would still have some.  What bulls do you like (not just the golden oldies)?

afhm - it is done then -we agree to disagree

I have been called a remnant from the 60s - my bull choices aren't that old, but may not really be in this century either ;D I am not big into gambling with my cows although I may walk on the wilder side on rare occasion  ;D

In no particluar order
Midas
Magic
Topper
Witch Doctor (and his sons Cigar, WD 40)
Pollstar
Paydirt (and his sons Payoff, Impact)
Pistol Pete
Energizer

and ins the Shorthorn world I like Gizmo, and am looking into Deadwood and ELBEEs bull they call Wyland (sp)

too much manure spreading too little (zero zip nada) rain - brain addled..

I have used Money Man for the first time this year and have some confirmed early pregnancies, but he isn't really new either! Maybe I'll have to change my name to retro dragon, you could call me RD  (lol)

 

[afhm]

Hope for your sake rd that the semen banks on those old guys doesn't run out and you have a bunch of old maids runnung around the pasture.

 

[DL]

Hope for your sake rd that the semen banks on those old guys doesn't run out and you have a bunch of old maids runnung around the pasture.

I do a pretty good job making sure I have the semen I need - some people collect porcelin, some people collect cars, I guess I really don't understand why it seems to bug people so much that I like using proven bulls and I like using bulls that work with my cows - right now I am more worried about the pasture than the old maids, and I always have to option to cross to the dark side....red, white and roan or maybe just red 

thanks for caring afhm, but don't worry it is under control
;D