Your thoughts on some Shorthorn AI Sires

[phillse]

Carl,  these cows are not hard doing under our management.  They might in a different environment but they also might be too easy of keeping in a different environment.  As for as calving ease, most of the calves weighs under 80 lbs at birth and in the last 10 years the only calves we had to pull were breach or a map presentation of a foot turned or head turned. It is rare that we pull a calf.  Granted we are not running large numbers of cattle and most calves around the first of the year.  These cattle are not perfect but they function on Bahia, Bermuda, Crabgrass summer pasture with the same kind of hay in winter and Ball clover in the spring and mineral. We also do not creep feed calves.  We average about 1 pair to 1.5 to 2 acres.

 

[carl]

That's why I'm always hesitant to comment on other people's cattle here. You are correct,  your environment is probably a lot different than ours.
I just know that type doesn't work for us. And we've culled more than a few like this.

 

[Medium Rare]

At one time I'd romantically ramble about head size, shape, and the old breed character you can see in an animal's head. Probably still will from time to time and have culled some alligators I just didn't like to look at. As time has gone on, I've found the one trait animals absolutely need to have here just so happens to show up in a lot of cattle with heads much uglier than yours. By culling as I was, I was screwing up my herd's natural ability to adapt to my environment.

Several of the "best looking" heads I've had or bought semen on have flunked out terribly here. I guess I haven't learned my lesson just yet as I keep falling back into old habits and testing them when I see a "great head" on one. I guess at the very least they look good when I dump them off at the sale barn.

 

[phillse]

E6 Durhams the Goldspear connection isa distinct possibility. Waukaru Goldmine 2109 and ArSuLu Osage 502 both have Goldspear in common in their pedigree. The z model is an Osage daughter and the red and white C model is off of Osage as well.  As for as the rest of them they have Waukaru Goldmine as a grandsire or great grandsire.  The u model does not have any Goldspear

 

[knabe]

the alligator head cows look like maine influence from texas

 

[phillse]

Knabe,
Which Maine influence from Texas?
I ask because as far as I can tell there is no Maine or if it is there it was mislabeled.  I know I have heard stories of some cattle in there pedigree not being as was presented but no proof.  I have heard of Enticer being part Maine and stories of Rodeo Drive being part Chianina but as far as I know there is no actual proof. Not saying those stories are incorrect.  They could in fact be true or they could be fabrications of the jealous or envious.  The answer to that I do not know.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Enticer and Rodeo came from Hoyts in Oregon and the people with the most knowledge of either would be Cagwin and Dugdale (SMUGDALE) Dugdale told me what he thought-Dugdale sold at LEAST Rodeo Drive off the cow and also had an interest IN CHUCK O LUCKS REAL SILVER-WE TALKED ABOUT HIM TOO-Stevie Wonder could see the Maine in him-He pretty well said what other people said in the early 90s-Please view an older thread on here SHOWING A PICTURE OF WHAT WAS SUPPOSEDLY Enticers dam at a sale by the California breeders as a heifer and Him  -And the Texas Maine influence cattle were the clubby cattle-Please include Oklahoma here too If anything they were smaller and short- broad headed like the 60s cattle that leader 21st improved  I will ad a video of Texas (Cross Plains) Maine influenced cattle  Harold Hoskins was probably one of the larger in numbers OUT AND OUT FULL BLOOD x Shorthorn breeder of them all-And sent progeny to Texas for many years-Back even before the Maines-Gary Bucholtz was a county agent way back in the 70s-And sent Harolds cattle down there for many years until he dispersed most of his cattle-Which Gary helped there as well and  sold a large majority of those cows to Texas  O0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxIhQqVxzx0&list=PLaVuhcWi1bd2qtNao3EKey6xZaakCurMT&ab_channel=BrettBracken

 

[Duncraggan]

Maybe it is the Maine/Alligator head/Hard calving link that has influenced my opinion. My post was purely from a curiosity point of view, at no point did I question their performance, I was just expressing my opinion with regard to their head shape and calving ease.
The 'head/shoulder' complex, coupled to BW is the biggest factor in CE!
Not all of the pictures posted were of cows with the extreme head shapes, but those with that fault were extreme, in my opinion!

 

[knabe]

cagwin imported maybe 5 pregnant fullblood maine cows hoping for heifers.


got all bulls.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Here are 2 Maine influenced ones  First is one from three 1/2 roughly years ago The second pic is a long yearling bred heifer from Today O0

 

[phillse]

Mark,
As far as looks, those two look just fine to me.  I do not know the temp range (time of year) of the first picture.  On the second picture taken today, I know you are further North than I am.  My main concern would be the hair on those two.  All things equal the hairier the cow down here the faster she falls out of production.  Not to say ours don’t hair up in winter.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Mark,
As far as looks, those two look just fine to me.  I do not know the temp range (time of year) of the first picture.  On the second picture taken today, I know you are further North than I am.  My main concern would be the hair on those two.  All things equal the hairier the cow down here the faster she falls out of production.  Not to say ours don’t hair up in winter.-Light roan grew up in Salina kS and now lives in west va-both places can get plenty hot-But she has that hair regardless-which comes from the Irish blood-with maybe some Galloway or something back in the woodpile  I dont know how she manages but shes just as easy keeping as the Angus-Simm XS and Charolais deals-Everybody into showing etc who have seen her are waiting for her first if its a steerThe other pic of the rwm cow  was in January-She also grew up in Kansas lives here -She slicks right off soon as it warms up O0

 

[phillse]

Mark,
Glad those two are working well. As far as showing cattle that is a whole other world of hair. None of ours has enough hair for the show folks down here either. That is ok because outside of the show world down here hairy does not work in the commercial setting.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

One reason slick shear shows are down there- The light roan was in the 70s at birth-So was the rwm-Time will tell on the young one-The older one is pretty moderate but throws back to performance cattle a lot of  grow from one that size-  THEY WERENT 60 POUND BWS-Anyone who claims that with resulting yearling heifers over 1000 pounds is full of sh@%%^&*()t Heres the cows fall 2019 Red heifer:a quick cell picture at jim Comptons a few weeks ago-Not a big show heifer but certainely big grow She was less than a year old in the picture  and weighed around 1000 pounds  She had only been there a month  or so  after a trailer trip from West Va to Iowa-She wasnt on heavy feed prior- She also had swelling in her joints which he thought might be neumochochial pneumonuia-Gave her a $500 shot the swelling went down and she bodied down and took off growing again  NOT ALOT OF HAIR (GFS CREOLE BACK THERE-)Sired by Fresh Air-the highest performing Shorthorn  bull I have used- Dale on here (breeder of Homeplace Hot commodity) also has some very recent calves-phenomenal grow

 

[phillse]

I pulled up the picture of Enticer and the mom in question and put them side by side I was not there nor have I seen them in person but perhaps there is some resemblance. 

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Dugdale sold him on a solid red older cow-He was pretty thick and way wider than her- his so called sire was a roan i THINK  and HIS DAM is close-Enticer was basically Red O0