? Always refreshing to read the comments of someone with all the answers, especially someone with so much more knowledge of my herd than I have. If you want to waste your time and do the research, you'll find that of the nearly 60 breeding age females in my pasture, very few of them have Trump closer than the third generation back. I used Big Jake for several years because he was a moderate framed, deep bodied, well made bull with some natural muscling. The main bulls I have used in the past 6 or 8 years have been Diamond Zulu, PVSF Leader by Kinnaber Leadr 9th, Fieser's Wesley (plus 2 of his sons that I am currently using), JA Ruff Neck, a Hot Commodity son, Oakview Leader 9-18, and am currently using the Saskvalley bull I bought last spring. Wesley is the only on of the bulls I have purchased with any Trump in him and it's not even on the pedigree. I did get some calves sired by a pair of full brother home raised bulls that have Trump in the fourth generation back. I apologize for not getting your approval on my breeding program.
Your thoughts on some Shorthorn AI Sires
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coyote
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Oakview, if propel counts then i have had a few. They are yearlings now. I was happy with moderate bw and average growth. I plan on uding two sons i retained. One will get used on heifers and the other on wet 2 yr olds. Don't know how they will be as cows but have a good escutcheon. So, they appear to have good maternal. If you want a true all around improver then look at CSF Long look. Best set of calves i have had in years and bw were good enough that i ai him to heifers. Starting to get calves now from two saskvalley bulls i got when xbar got his editor bull. I like what i see. I really think combing these show bred cattle with good functioning cows will make progress for what i am trying to do.
Xbar i do agree that i was more pleased with the original jazz daughters more than the double or triple bred ones. I yjink it compounded the things a bit much and i lost size and preformance, some of this was necessary to obtain a herd with no bw or calving issues. I still like jazz and think he can be used successfully on the right cows for the right traits. Anoth bull that i think will soon be used heavily is times square. The op should consider this bull in the future if his calves do as his numbers and phenotype indicate
Xbar how did the editor calves turn out?
Xbar i do agree that i was more pleased with the original jazz daughters more than the double or triple bred ones. I yjink it compounded the things a bit much and i lost size and preformance, some of this was necessary to obtain a herd with no bw or calving issues. I still like jazz and think he can be used successfully on the right cows for the right traits. Anoth bull that i think will soon be used heavily is times square. The op should consider this bull in the future if his calves do as his numbers and phenotype indicate
Xbar how did the editor calves turn out?
Duncraggan
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Nice heifer!coyote said:
Doc
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Lonnie, I really like the Red Reward lines. From himself to his full brother Red Power. They tend to moderate BW's, they improve EPD's and I really like the udders on the cows.
Thanks for the info. I used a little of the Red Reward line on the cows we use to raise the grand kids show heifers. The calves are very eye appealing, we'll probably keep a couple of them for cows. Keep us posted on the Saskvalley bulls out west. They were my favorites in the sale.
Oakview, unfortunately the 112E bull died at the end of the breeding season. A week before i went to pull bulls. So far i have 4 heifers from him bw from 87-69# and the 206E bull 1 heifer at 65# when the smoke clears( can only see about 200 ft for the last week) and the evac warning is lifted i will try to ge some pics. Seriously if you are trying to make good cow that are competitive that dont add extreme bw. I suggest propel and long look. Both are consistent and work well on saskvalley genetics. Middle daughter is showing a long look out of a ramrod bonanza jazz cow, really cool and will be the future type i strive for. She is similer the the female coyote posted with a little more show look to her front end.
Medium Rare
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oakview said:
I have a couple cows out of a son. They're not the best looking animals on the place, but they have some size, mother well with functional udders, and have raised some really nice bull claves. If I had left the nuts on them they would have been purchased by commercial cow men. Have had a couple other bull calves out of another son that also grew extremely well.
Currently have 3 or 4 direct daughters in a replacement pen being raised along side commercial calves. They are growing well and are some of the easiest fleshing in the pen. Those females are looking like they tend to follow their mothers, which I have no problem with. They're also faster maturing when compared to several of my heavily Canadian influenced cattle.
His semen has also worked well for me. Made 16 usable sexed heifer eggs via IVF just last week and the IVF that made my current daughters was a split straw use that also did very well. If I had just listened to rumors and hearsay, I never would have used the bull. Reality has me wishing I had another cane of semen as I will be using more of what I have in the future.
I purchased shares in Red Value, Propel, and Red Power, but have only used 1 straw so far. Three tanks crammed full, so many bulls I want to use. I have had several calves out of the Red Reward grandson I purchased. The heifer calves have all been in the mid 60's to mid 70's. I had 2 bulls calves this year over 100 lbs., though each was out of a heifer not of my breeding.
Doc
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mbigelow said:
I like the Propel calves also. The bad thing is Schrag took him off the market and the semen that Sullivan has sold in 2 sales this spring brought from $130 to $140 a straw. I've got 8 straws left that I got from Cory last fall before he took it off the market
Snapped some more pictures with my phone while checking cows this evening. These four are all from the same dam line. Oldest to Youngest, U model, Z model, C model, D model
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Duncraggan
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Without prejudice, I want to give my opinion that these are the worst headed Shorthorns I have seen.
You can see the resemblance to the 'U model' dam in a millisecond. These are classic "woodpecker/crocodile/alligator" heads.
To me they scream calving problems!
What is the common sire here?
Please don't shoot me down, I am just curious as to where these heads come from?
You can see the resemblance to the 'U model' dam in a millisecond. These are classic "woodpecker/crocodile/alligator" heads.
To me they scream calving problems!
What is the common sire here?
Please don't shoot me down, I am just curious as to where these heads come from?
Duncaggan, i can assure you we have not had calving problems from the Alligator head. I can respect your opinion on the head and can only hope it is based on your observations or some data.
Some would say if you go back and dig through the pedigree it is Enticer and Rodeo Drive.
As for as prominent Bulls in the back ground.
The first 4 pictured, Sutherland Ransom 179, Mel-bar Rodeo Drive 347, Shadybrook Scotty 83K, Ar Su Lu Osage 502, Waukaru Goldmine 2109.
The second group of pictures Ar Su Lu Vann, and (Waukaru Goldmine 2109 and U model cow combination)
Would you care to illustrate a proper “best” Shorthorn head.
The saying at our place is pretty is good, but pretty is as pretty does.
Some would say if you go back and dig through the pedigree it is Enticer and Rodeo Drive.
As for as prominent Bulls in the back ground.
The first 4 pictured, Sutherland Ransom 179, Mel-bar Rodeo Drive 347, Shadybrook Scotty 83K, Ar Su Lu Osage 502, Waukaru Goldmine 2109.
The second group of pictures Ar Su Lu Vann, and (Waukaru Goldmine 2109 and U model cow combination)
Would you care to illustrate a proper “best” Shorthorn head.
The saying at our place is pretty is good, but pretty is as pretty does.
Duncraggan
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A senior Shorthorn judge came to inspect my cattle and was concerned that there were a lot of heads that were not true to type, as per the breed standard.
I am not even a qualified junior Shorthorn judge but could see the point he was making!
Most of those referred to were of North American breeding.
I have used S. Scotty 83K, very successfully, in the past and am currently using Crooked Post Stockman 4Z quite heavily but they weren't the culprits! Shadybrook Powerplay 802U was the sire of lots of the cattle identified as straying from the standard. I have retained one only and she seems to be breeding desirable heads so far. I think she has had about 4-5 calves already.
I will try to locate the breed standard description and post the relevant section.
I am not even a qualified junior Shorthorn judge but could see the point he was making!
Most of those referred to were of North American breeding.
I have used S. Scotty 83K, very successfully, in the past and am currently using Crooked Post Stockman 4Z quite heavily but they weren't the culprits! Shadybrook Powerplay 802U was the sire of lots of the cattle identified as straying from the standard. I have retained one only and she seems to be breeding desirable heads so far. I think she has had about 4-5 calves already.
I will try to locate the breed standard description and post the relevant section.
trevorgreycattleco
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A lot of the bigger headed cattle have Byland Goldspear somewhere in the woodpile. I also think the SBR Tsunami cattle are about the best headed I’ve seen. Saskvalley Alamo puts an excellent head on his offspring as well.
Duncraggan said:
You're not wrong about the head shape and size. I'm not sure I'd call them the worst headed Shorthorns I've seen, because this has been a fairly common problem in our breed. I think we are making progress in eliminating the trait, but we still cull the odd one because of head shape, and we have been selecting against this trait for 20 plus years.
I don't know about the effects of head shape on calving ease, but those long heads, with the narrow muzzle, just scream hard-doing to me.
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