When we send a group of cattle to the feedyard, we send the whole bunch and no one bats an eye at the <5% off coloreds. However on all the groups that are too small in numbers to go or going to the feeders doesn't pencil out, our local sale barn sorts and re-sorts and then lets the buyers pick more off yet.
A bull that can cross the boundaries between clubbie and cowboy cattle
- Thread starter justintime
- Start date
Help Support Steer Planet:
Hilltop
Well-known member
We too are breeding for a few more roans this year!! I will have to come and snoop and check out Touchdown. I am sure you will be glad you have him back at your farm.
Last fall when we shipped our first trailer of commercial calves there were 12 steers and two were roan and there were three solid black either Shorthorn sired or out of Shorthorn females. The one roan was what I would of cosidered to be in the bottom 25% quality wise of the load.
When I opened the cheque and seen that the two roans sold for 2 cents a pound more and weighed more than the blacks my first thought was they made a mistake. Then I thought WOW! It was a good feeling to actually see it for ourselves.
I understand exactly how you feel about getting "RIPPED OFF" by cattle buyers. We had 3 steers last December that my wife said had to go because no one would pay $1000 for a halter broke prospect. Two would of made show steers and one was a red thick soggy bugger that would of finished by April. When we got the cheque for them I was P#^^*D
(argue) (argue)The roan went for almost what we wanted out of the yard and is being show but the big red calf went for 46 of 48 cents and the red brockle face only brought 78 cents and was about 600 lbs. I called to ask what was going on and because some buyer who they have to keep happy and kiss butt with said the big steer looked staggy we lost $400 on him.
Their answer to me was I got more for the roan than he was worth so it worked out even but not in our eyes. I said we would probably not bring cattle to sell there again but I am sure they don't care whether they see our 15-30 head a year. They said they are getting shafted from the buyers also who last fall would not pay the auction mart to keep the calves fed with hay until they hit the road down east.
I guess if we are going to get ripped off it will be by someone that we don't know from now on.
Hang in with the roans because it will only be a matter of time until you outsell the blacks
Last fall when we shipped our first trailer of commercial calves there were 12 steers and two were roan and there were three solid black either Shorthorn sired or out of Shorthorn females. The one roan was what I would of cosidered to be in the bottom 25% quality wise of the load.
When I opened the cheque and seen that the two roans sold for 2 cents a pound more and weighed more than the blacks my first thought was they made a mistake. Then I thought WOW! It was a good feeling to actually see it for ourselves.
I understand exactly how you feel about getting "RIPPED OFF" by cattle buyers. We had 3 steers last December that my wife said had to go because no one would pay $1000 for a halter broke prospect. Two would of made show steers and one was a red thick soggy bugger that would of finished by April. When we got the cheque for them I was P#^^*D
(argue) (argue)The roan went for almost what we wanted out of the yard and is being show but the big red calf went for 46 of 48 cents and the red brockle face only brought 78 cents and was about 600 lbs. I called to ask what was going on and because some buyer who they have to keep happy and kiss butt with said the big steer looked staggy we lost $400 on him. Their answer to me was I got more for the roan than he was worth so it worked out even but not in our eyes. I said we would probably not bring cattle to sell there again but I am sure they don't care whether they see our 15-30 head a year. They said they are getting shafted from the buyers also who last fall would not pay the auction mart to keep the calves fed with hay until they hit the road down east.
I guess if we are going to get ripped off it will be by someone that we don't know from now on.
Hang in with the roans because it will only be a matter of time until you outsell the blacks
trevorgreycattleco
Well-known member
JIT I been thinkin about that bull............ He is a Timeline son and he is a 5.5 frame?????? What was the cows frame score? Not to be a ass but I have a hard time believing he is a 5.5 frame. He looks good and I am not lookin to start a fight. Just curious. I know Timeline is a bigger framed bull so thats what got me to wondering.
trevorgreycattleco
Well-known member
I need new glasses! I'm sorry. I thought he was a Timeline son. After reading it again I see he is not. i will shut up now! Sorry again! I don't know much about his sire so help me out.
mark tenenbaum
Well-known member
His sire last call was way cool-and really moderate and thick-a Pretender-Mona Lisa deal-With Pretender being a grandson(or great g-son) of Red Alert (Evergreen Igloos-sire -igloo being the sire of Bunny-Pretenders dam) it sneaks some fullblood maine and CHI (rodeo) ,into the canadian book-Was that a Trump Mona- (CuniaX a bunch) or the orig-HS Mona Lisa= -Rodeo x Deertrail Mona Lisa who was supposed to be a-Deertrail Goliath and (Hilltop cow?)I Think not By way of a fullblood Canadian Maine not mentioned).I cant remember which Maine it was, I was told once long ago-but a great combo either way. O0
By way of a fullblood Canadian Maine not mentioned).I cant remember which Maine it was, I was told once long ago-but a great combo either way. O0
trevorgreycattleco
Well-known member
I remember the bull a little bit. Thanks Mark. You are a walking reference book for me here on SP. You know your genetics! <beer>
mark tenenbaum
Well-known member
trevorgreycattleco said:
trevorgreycattleco
Well-known member
I agree, JIT has prolly forgotten more about shorthorns than I know. I respect keeping your opinions to yourself, wish I was better at it, but never have been.
JIT I would like you to get a frame score on touchdown. If he is right sized for me and after he is proven pretty good I may be interested in plugging him into some black and red angus cows for Durham's. Any carcass info you could provide would be good to. Thanks.
JIT I would like you to get a frame score on touchdown. If he is right sized for me and after he is proven pretty good I may be interested in plugging him into some black and red angus cows for Durham's. Any carcass info you could provide would be good to. Thanks.
justintime
Well-known member
There will not be any Touchdown semen offered this year, at least this spring. We have had interest expressed by some leading studs, for both the domestic and international rights in him, and we are following up on these. In the meantime he will be breeding cows here. His service will be featured in our fall female sale Oct 20th.
I would have to say that if this bull is too big for anyone, I would suggest you rethink what the cattle business is about. I will try to measure him tomorrow and get a frame score on him. His first calves are really looking good. I will try to get some pictures soon.
I would have to say that if this bull is too big for anyone, I would suggest you rethink what the cattle business is about. I will try to measure him tomorrow and get a frame score on him. His first calves are really looking good. I will try to get some pictures soon.
justintime
Well-known member
ELBEE said:
Cattle buyers and dealers are quick to tell producers that the auction is the best method of determining value. Elbee's comment just proves that there is no justice in the auction system especially when it is being run by idiots. You know and I know that if you had sold these cattle to some cattle buyer, he would have marked them up and moved them to a feedlot and he would have pocketed more profit that Elbee would have. I really think the time has come for some real justice in our marketing systems. Color is one of the most ridiculous price discounts ever thought up. We fed cattle here for many years, and we never once had a packer ask what color the cattle were.All they asked was if they were British or Continental or British/Continental cross.. and their average weights. I can see color being an issue if the feeder is trying for the CAB label There are lots of cattle passing through the CAB program that are a very low percentage Angus blood.
In this day and age, I would think it is time that the quality of the product beneath the hide should dictate value. Some of the things that happens to producers is as close as legal theft as anything I know of.
When the Shorthorn steers I mentioned in my previous post, received the highest premium ever paid by Cargill in Canada, I spoke with the head buyer for Cargill in Western Canada. He said that Cargill simply loves to see a set of cattle come to their plants like these cattle. He said they have to be careful to not show favoritism to specific breeds,so that is why they developed the premium program so that cattle feeders can figure out which cattle are making the most money for them. Change is always slow to come in this business, and most cattle buyers are very set in their ways. Here in Western Canada, we are finally seeing some change occur in regards to this dumb color thing. What is really stupid is that many of these colored cattle are fed out in Canada, and then sent to Packing Plants in the US for slaughter... in the same area that would have discounted these cattle if they had sold there as feeder calves. Parts of this business need a slap on the side of the head!
Color and name recognition by non-agriculture people is all that the Angus breed had in the late 80's early 90's. They have parlayed that into dominating the beef market in the US. Not a big fan, but hats off to them for one of, if not THE, best marketing strategy's ever devised in agriculture. Since those roan cattle can't possibly be CAB carcasses there for the discount for color in this country and although the premise behind the program sure is ridiculous, the price that packers are willing to pay for an animal that they already know isn't going to qualify isnt so ridiculous. Ad that to the fact that there are so few roans, spotted, animals compared to blacks here in the US makes it quite easy to rationalize. There is just no demand so there is no reason for anyone to pay full price. Not saying it's the way it SHOULD be, just saying it's the way it is.
trevorgreycattleco
Well-known member
I didn't say I wanted to use him this year. I said when he proves himself I may be interested. Frame score is VERY important to me. Not the end all be all but still a important part of my choices. When I see roan and red calves sell for equal of there black herd mates, then I will change my tune but until then, the blacks go to town and the roans and reds go for freezer beef. Just tryin to play the game best I can. Hey if your going to call this bull a bull that can cross boundaries then we should know azs much as possible. I guarantee you most commercial people would also want to know his frame score not just a guess. When you say things like you need to rethink the cattle business ,it is annoying. You have such a WIDE array of bulls ,it was a fair question!
justintime
Well-known member
trevorgreycattleco said:
I was not trying to annoy.. I am sorry if I came across this way. What I meant to say is the biggest criticism we have received on Touchdown is that he is too small framed. I guess it just depends what frame a person thinks is good. Personally, I think he is a very moderate framed bull, and I would not use him on real small framed cows, unless there was a reason they were small ( such as environment and feed). My personal opinion is that it is OK to moderate frame as long as we don't lose performance. My commercial bull buyers are only concerned with two major things, that being calving ease and weaning weight. They sell pounds and they want them born easily. I have seen some smaller framed cattle that have lost some performance, and I don't think it is the right direction to go,..... at least for me.
garybob
Well-known member
Not the way to go, for anyone.justintime said:
aj
Well-known member
I have tried to hold back. When I hear about moderate framed cattle not having performance I literally get ill.First of all explain what you mean by performance. Fertility? Weaning % of cow weight? Carcass performance? Feed effiency performance? Money produced per flush. In the real world fertility and longevity determines profit for the commercial guy. PERIOD. Its not if your cow weighs a ton! Or if you weaned a 700# calf out of her. If you want to talk about performance do the the following test. Take 2 160 acres of grass. Put tonner cows in one pasture. Put 1000 pound cows in the other. After a 15 year period the pasture with the 1,000 pound cows will return more dollars and more pounds of beef. Fertility and and stayability is what it is. Why does everybody forget to add in the added costs of feeding the big tonner cows? Why does no one figure in fertility and stayability. I pray that 10 Shorthorn juniors would pick up on this concept and breed real world cattle. Or even 10 Shorthorn people of any age. Fertility. Stayabilty. These are the traits that make or break commercial cow herds. Its not whether or not a bull had a 500# weaning weight or a 700# weaning weight. It is so so so wrong to think that cattle that have 700# weaning weights are "performance" cattle. It is just wrong.jmo.
simtal
Well-known member
aj said:
hard to measure the values of those, even though they are valuable
aj
Well-known member
One way to select for longevity is to find a 14 year old cow that has never missed and keep back a son from her. I have a brother that kept back two sons out of a cow that produced to the age of 18. Why can't seedstock producers do this? But nooooo....they raise purple ribbon cattle that the commercial people can't use.
justintime
Well-known member
aj said:
aj... again you are lumping all purebred breeders into one basket! I know of many purebred breeders to whom longevity is extremely important. I also know of other purebred breeders who truely believe that if their breeding program is worth anything, they should be producing daughters of their cows that are better than the previous generation. These breeders only keep the top few older cows and are consistently replacing their cows with daughters. I think this makes some sense, but I also think the great cows should be maintained in the herd as long as possible. ET has also changed what we used to think of as normal cow life as well. I don't care what anyone says, flushing can affect the lifespan of a cow. I just AI bred 4 donors that will be flushed next week. The youngest is 9 and two of the others are 13 and the other is 14. They are all in super condition and have good calves at side. These cows have not seen grain in over a year and have only seen very limited grain in their entire lives. I fully expect these cows will be around for a few more years. Their udders are sound and they are still able to milk and stay in good shape. I cull my cows fairly hard, but the good ones get to stay as long as they are productive and sound. I don't have any spare bedrooms to keep a grandma cow just to get that one last calf out of her. Maybe it is different where you live, but most of the purebred breeders I know here, do the very same thing.
Again you make these general comments that all purebred breeders chase the purple ribbons. You know as well as I do that this is totally false. Yes, there are some that only try to produce show winners,but they are by far in the minority. I don't know what you are trying to prove by making statements like this.
aj
Well-known member
OK....I get it. We need Wampum big cows to raise Wampum big calves.
aj
Well-known member
I guess I don't understand your logic. Instead of telling the commercial guy what kind of cattle you think they should raise......maybe you listen to what kinda cattle they want to raise. 2,000 pound cows are not acceptable to these guys. That is just my opinion.
