Americans ideas of living in Canada

[ROMAX]

OK so i live in southern ONTARIO,so most of your northern states are further north than me,whatever weather MICHIGAN gets we get.free health care is good you can break your leg for free,go see the doctor as much as you want.We have to pay two taxes on products you buy (pst and gst)but they are trying to combine them so you only pay one not sure how that will shake out.We do have famous people from canada TERRI CLARK is my fave but others include NICKELBACK,SHANIA TWAIN,TRAGICALLY HIP,and the TRAILER PARK BOYS.Ilove living where i do but when it comes to clubby bulls we're pretty limited in what we can use from our AMERICAN neighbors.So for thoseAMERICANS  that say it is so cold in the winter ,GET A MAP.

 

[frostback]

First of all it is EH not Ay I think the Ay is more Australian. Also if you can make Agribition I strongly suggest it. It is great, so many cattle and great people. There are all the breeds shows then a heifer show that you start by showing against your breed then the winners show against all the other breed winners. They also have a parade of breed champions and it is great to see all the breeds in the ring together.
The main point I wanted opinions on was the gov. health care. Why are US people so afraid of it. My family that still lives there are very well taken care of. My 60+ father just get his gall bladder out. It was scheduled for later in the fall but when he had another attack it was a emergency and he got in. He also gets all the right meds to take care of his diabetes and gets to see the specialist when he needs to. I think the wait list of surgery's is for elective surgery's, but if it is a problem it is taken care of. In Alberta the rich are not taken care of faster or better than the poor and in that way I like how they do it.
Just wanted to know why people were so scared that the health care may be like Canada.

 

[justintime]

Canadian health care is overall very good. There are no waiting lists if you have an emergency. If you have a heart attack, and need surgery, you get it immediately... at no cost. I think the best health care is somewhere between the Canadian and the US models. Some of the European models of health care seem to make much more sense to me. Switzerland, Germany and Sweden have very good plans. My problem with our system and with the health care debate in the US is whether it is sustainable into the future. I like our system, but I do think it needs some tweeking to make it cost effective and to take the pressure off of some of the health care workers. I have ended up with two major surgeries where I was in intensive care for almost two weeks on each occasion. My only concern was the work piling up at home, and the concerns about the costs was never a concern. Both times, I received immediate surgery, and did not have to wait.

 

[OH Breeder]

As far as health care goes Americans are afriad of change. It is a must though. I have worked in many facets of healthcare.A lot of americans expect it to be like checking in at the Hilton. They expect a certain level of care. I feel some are just afraid of change.
You would be surprised how many 20 something year olds are on SSI for things like depression. Now I am not trying to minimize their affliction or disorder but some are born into it and learn quickly how to live off of it.There are alwys those exceptions to the rule.
I think we have to see how it is going to work before we as American citiens write it off.We gotta do something! I feel pretty confident in this area as I have consumed about 1.3 million dollars of care in the past three years. If I wouldn't have had insurance I would have jad to file bankruptcy to get out of it. Now that is sad.

 

[GoWyo]

Somebody has to pay for medical care or let people die, be chronics, etc.  Right now, ERs pick up the slack, and at least in our state, those are hospital districts, which are local governmental entities.  SSI, Medicare and Medicaid pay the socialized part now.  Our insurance costs something like $1200 per month and coverage is decent, plus have a cafeteria plan for unpaid meds.  It would be interesting to see how much more taxes I would pay in exchange for the current $1200/mo. going to health insurance and comparison of coverage on government run health care.  However, the bottom line is that government does very few things cheaply or efficiently or even all that well.  Government bureaucrats get rewarded by building bigger bureaucracies and moving up the pay scale and retiring earlier, not by running a better and more efficient business.  That is what concerns me about government being more involved in health care than it already is.

 

[herfchic]

I was in Alberta for the Remitall Hereford Sale and I absolutely loved it.  I was a little confused when I looked at a speed limit sign and it said 110, kind of a blond moment I guess.  I hope I can get to Agribition, but we will see. 

 

[GoWyo]

Canadians do have this funny habit of putting brown gravy on their french fries instead of ketchup.  It's not bad though.  Also, they have no clue how to make a good burrito.

 

[Shady Lane]

Would love some feedback from some average US citizens as to what living in Canada is like? With all the comparing of the governments these days just want to see what is so bad and scary up there. Frostie

Frostie,

I always assumed you were a fellow Canadian given the picture in your avatar with the Mountie and the Canadian Flag but then after reading this thread I checked you profile to find you live in Colorado?

 So I guess I'm currious about your avatar now?

Interesting thread, I enjoyed reading the comments and hearing different peoples perspectives.

I've been lucky enough to have travelled extensively throughout Canada and much of the U.S. Primarily going to cattle shows, sales or other functions and I think it's been really education and definitely very interesting to see the way people live and how things are different or the same in different regions of the continent.

As for differences or similarities I have noticed (remember these are generalisations I have made strictly from observation)

- I beleive there is a larger middle class in Canada, or atleast a less obvious spread from the very rich to the very poor
- I think Americans have a greater sense of Patriotism and Canadians have a greater sense of personal identity
- I happen to like gravy on my french fries (you can keep the cheese though, that's what makes it Poutine)
- I preffer the climate in many places in the U.S, Hawaii sounds nice  (lol) but I don't handle oppressive heat very well
- I love the interstate highway systems in the U.S! Seems you can cover huge distances much faster and easier than you can here
- I wish I could buy fuel that was made from Canadian oil as cheap in Canada as I can buy it in the U.S  ???
- I love the AG support and enthusiasm I see when travelling to the states, For example most every state fair grounds I have ever been to has beautiful facillities, I am very envious for sure!
- I think you folks have a Fantastic Country south of the border and since we have the better part of North America covered between the two countries, The World's largest Undefended Border and one of the largest Trade agreements in the world stands to reason that Canada and the U.S are both fantastic countries, very similar in many ways yet both have unique chracteristics and differences.

As for your question on Unniversal Health Care.

 Most people who know me well at all would say that I am one of the most right wing capitalists they know, yet I still firmly believe in Universal Health Care.

In my mind health care is an essential service, the same as schools or roads. YES it takes tax dollars to pay for it but one thing I never want to have to worry about is not being able to afford essential health services for someone in my family.

Of course I worry about the inefficiencies of government handling my money to provide these health services but overall I'm very happy with the quality of health care that I have recieved at any time in my life. Plus, so long as the checks and balances are properly put in place taking the PROFFIT out of the private sector of health care and making it public saves a huge amount of money, plus providing unniversal health care 'En Masse' saves money in shear volume.

So, that is one capitalists oppinion on left wing medical services.

 


Where's my Tommy Douglas Hat?

  <cowboy>

 

[knabe]

Of course I worry about the inefficiencies of government handling my money to provide these health services but overall I'm very happy with the quality of health care that I have recieved at any time in my life. Plus, so long as the checks and balances are properly put in place taking the PROFFIT out of the private sector of health care and making it public saves a huge amount of money, plus providing unniversal health care 'En Masse' saves money in shear volume.

So, that is one capitalists oppinion on left wing medical services.

Where's my Tommy Douglas Hat?

   <cowboy>

without profit, there is no incentive.  also, your 401k, if you have one, and millions of americans do, that profit fuels their retirement.  take away profit, and you will see retirement accounts tank as they are tied in with health care and all the supporting industries.

the problem manifests itself two ways.  one, excess government employees, or two, too much compensation to too few people.  these amounts are probably relatively equal in cost, if not more so for government employees as unfunded liabilities are much greater for gov employees.  this shows up in canada with health workers being laid off.  it shows up in industry as too many stock options which is where most of the compensation is, and not their actual salary.  the private sector needs a readjustment, which it is doing, and get rid of the golden parachutes and the entitlement.  entitlement is also on the opposite end of the spectrum in the demand for "free" health care.

 

[Shady Lane]

Well I can't say I hear of health workers being laid off, in fact over the last several years I do know they have been hiring nurses etc like crazy in this area.

(not to say that nurses and other health care workers haven't been laid off at other times)

What I DO know is at any time it might be required myself and my family will recieve essential health services when they are required.

  One other statistic to note would be the fact that Canadians live longer on average than Americans.

I would tend to think that must have something to do with recievinga lifetime of quality health care?

 

[knabe]

  One other statistic to note would be the fact that Canadians live longer on average than Americans.

I would tend to think that must have something to do with receiving lifetime of quality health care?

correlation does not equal causation.  i think canadians might be a more active people than americans.  health care is in one sense a symptom of a problem and not the problem itself.  canada per captia is more of a natural resource job country than US.  the US is more of a butt in chair country.

 

[GoWyo]

Canadians live longer because they preserve themselves by drinking more -- at least the ones I know love with great Canadian beers and their vodka and they are a lot of fun to hang out with. <party>

 

[Mark H]

I have been debating on whether to comment on this topic but since I have lived and worked in both countries.  I was born into it since my mother is American and my father is Canadian.  The differences between Canada and the United States go right to the core of the reasons why the two countries were founded.  The United States was founded against the arbitrary rule of one man be it a king, queen or prime minister and  republic resulted.  Canada was formed from several British colonies with peace, order and good government as the goals and is still a constitutional monarchy.
Canada has greater regional differences than the United States.  Look at Quebec versus Alberta or BC; can you imagine a state than has another language besides English as its official language?  Also Canadian Provinces have far more power than any American state.  They control schools, health care, and control all the public (crown) land  along with the natural resources in their borders besides national parks and military bases.  An angry Premier can be a formidable opponent on the national stage if he so desires (and frequently do).
Many Americans also are under the impression that Canada is some sort of left wing paradise.  To put it mildly it is not.  I was raised in Central Alberta and the average politician there  is very right wing even by Sarah Palin standards.  Every public school I was in had a bible in each classroom, creationism was taught alongside evolution etc.  Also Catholic schools are funded from taxes complete with their own school boards. This outlines another difference in Canada: no separation of Church and state.
Canada's economy is more dependent on resource extraction than the United States.  This is caused by the absence of smart risk taking by Canadian elite business men.  This  problem is getting worse.  The business elite would rather invest in the United States rather than strike out on their own.  This makes for lower levels of oppurtunity for younger educated people.  It is in short a colonial mentality.
Lastly on medical care:  I can attest that the Canadian single payer system works far better than the American system unless your are in the top 3% of the population here.  This is particularly true in rural areas.  It us easier to see a MD in Innisfail, Alberta than in a small California city.  The average town in Alberta with a population of around 5,000 has a new hospital.  In California towns like Fillmore with a population of around 7,000 doesn't even have an emergency ward let alone a hospital; the hospital is in Santa Paula 10m to 12 miles away.  Also the idea that Canadians are hale and hearty physically active folk versus their sedentary American contemporaries is nonsense on the face of it.  Just think of the fries and gravy not exactly great for cholesterol or watching the waste line. Also all the small towns curling rinks have two things: a bar and ashtrays halfway down the ice.
For a great read on small town life read Population 485:  Meeting Your Neighbors one Siren at a Time by Micheal Perry.

 

[worthabit]

Well there is a lot to respond to here and I hate to type!

First to respond to JIT on the recycling. About 15 years ago the govn't brought in a province wide waste system. each property was charged $125/YEAR for two carts. a green one for compost and black one for waste. What an uproar, people thought the russians were taking over, imagine being told how to sort your garbage! Today it is a great system and it is just second nature.

I agree 100% with shady lane about the health care system.

as far as thinking Canada and big places, our province is a million acres and has 135,000 people. We don't even have ant divided highways because there is no room!

 

[justintime]

I don't think many Canadians, let alone Americans have any real idea how big Canada is from east coast to west coast. Google  Maps says it is almost 1000 miles farther from the eastern coast to the Western Coast, than it is across the US . When you look at a map, that east coast of Canada sticks out into the ocean a long ways. I always find it amazing, that when I am in worthabit's country ( Prince Edward Island) I am twice as close to Britain as I am my home.... and I live about in the middle of Canada.  One of the biggest obstacles I see in Canada is that we have approximately 1000 miles of rocks and trees, and water, between eastern Canada and Western Canada. There is very little population in this area and it is a clear obstacle between the two parts of the country. I sometimes think both countries would have been better off if this continent had been divided up the Mississippi  and straight north from there.

 

[JbarL]

Would love some feedback from some average US citizens as to what living in Canada is like?

do you all have "jobs canadians wont do"  there?......what immigrants  do you have to do them?   what percentage are illegal ?......jbarl

 

[knabe]

canada has a much more restrictive immigration policy than the US.

How does Canadian immigration policy work?
Immigration policy in Canada is structured around three main categories:
Economic. This category represents the largest portion of immigrants each year. Selection is based on a point system that rewards applicants with higher levels of education, job experience, and language skills (i.e., English and French). With the manufacturing sector in decline and the country shifting toward a more information-based economy, this policy emphasizes flexible, transferable skills over specific occupations.

Family reunification. This class of immigrants includes spouses and children joining family members who are already living in Canada. This is the second-largest group of immigrants admitted on a yearly basis. Canada will recognize same-sex couples in this category even if they are not legally married due to restrictions in their country of origin, although a couple must provide proof of a long-standing relationship.

Refugees. This is the smallest group of immigrants admitted to Canada every year. It includes both humanitarian resettlement programs and claims for asylum protection.

Between 1990 and 2002, 49 percent of immigrants to Canada were from the economic class, 34 percent were from the family reunification category and 13 percent were humanitarian cases.

the US immgrates between 750k-1million  every year under a lot less restrictive policy.  canada about 200k

per capita rates 
US              0.25% per per capita
Canada      0.6% per capita

it is another policy based on growth, which in the end, is a bubble.  most of these types of bubbles extend beyond decades or lifetimes so they are difficult to assess the unintended consequences, which usually is war.

 

[DLD]

I do envy the Canadian health care system, from what I hear of it anyway.

If we could get a health care system in the U.S. that we would be as happy with as the Canadians seem to be with theirs, I'd be all for it (and I too am about as far right as you can get about a whole lot of things).  The problem is that most folks just don't believe it's gonna work that well. If it works, I don't have any problem with my tax dollars paying for it - we're paying for the ones that can't (or won't) pay for it now anyway, in addition to paying for our own insurance (if we can even get it ) and deductibles, co-pays, etc...

 

[knabe]

the majority of new jobs being created right now is government.  the problem with government health care is that government jobs tend to rationalize a larger and larger budget every year and there is no incentive to decrease your budget through savings.

morality is simply not a universality, but merely obedience to rules to rule out competition.  it is how caste system and guilds were created.  competition insures productivity and improvement.  be careful what you wish for.  the government plan mirrors the california tax system which is flawed as too few are taxed at too high of a rate and is therefore subject to fluctuations in markets where the few that are taxed derive income.  it's why those people are leaving california and moving to places like texas and other more business friendly climates.  ultimately, business provides jobs, not government.

 

[cdncowboy]

Our health care may not be the best in the world but at least I know that if I need to use it for some serious reason I can.  What are the statistics something like 70% of Americans don't have health insurance?  What that implies to me is that the people who most need it are those least able to afford it.  
From things I've heard the US system has become a business - the health care business suddenly shifts the emphasis from the health and well being to PROFIT.  I can't imagine being denied services because it won't make anyone enough money.
But in both countries that is where the problem lies is the money.  We lose doctors and nurses to the US where they can make more money.  I'm a little young to remember when the doctor was equally concerned about his patients as money - the days older people talk about when you could barter for a doctors services, and if they knew this might be the only way to get compensated they'd do it.  I know my mother told me they did a partial trade of something or other and cash to have her little brother delivered, and at their home none the less - wow what are the odds of getting a doctor at your house nowadays?
Canadian systems very somewhat from province to province but at least its available.  It too does need some reform,  example in Saskatchewan if you need say an MRI you wait in line unless your a member of a local sports franchise then you can pay extra to get it done off hours and ASAP,  but this does not apply to the general public, we have to go next door to a private MRI clinic in Alberta.  Make any sense?  
OH Breeder Americans aren't the only ones afraid of change lots of Canadians are too - mention changing the health care system to alot of elderly people in Saskatchewan and they'll chase you down, which they can do thanks to that new hip, and beat you with the walker they got while it was healing!!