Asterisk free shorthorn

[trevorgreycattleco]

Hey, I want to go on this trip! Pick me up sue.

 

[vanridge]

OK don't kill me, but are the original shorthorns ( I guess you call them asterick free) only roan, red, or white? We have a red and white as in 1/2 red 1/2 white spotted heifer here, would she have something else running through her bloodlines? Is there an official color discription to shorthorns that can be registered? And just curious, how did polled shorthorns come about? (Do you still call them shorthorn or do you just call them short?  (lol) ) Sorry,  didn't get enough sleep last night.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

They can be all of those colors as far as I know. I have had all here. When registering you have to say if it's a roan, solid red, red and white, white. No clue where the polled came from. I believe that is way before my time. I would like to know to. I bet Mr RN Reed could tell ya or JIT.

 

[Okotoks]

They can be all of those colors as far as I know. I have had all here. When registering you have to say if it's a roan, solid red, red and white, white. No clue where the polled came from. I believe that is way before my time. I would like to know to. I bet Mr RN Reed could tell ya or JIT.

The original shorthorns were red, white, roan and red with white marks(almost any combination). Some of the original cows used by breeders like the Collings were referred to as grey, and yellow but hard to know what that meant but those colors were not referred to after a few years. A couple of bulls were red with a white face, but also a pattern that disappeared.
The poll cattle originated in the USA from Bates bred cattle that were born without horns(sports). The Bates cattle were selected more as milking animals. They were very stylish and had great success in the show yards and some huge prices in the 1870's. Some animals brought $30,000 plus at the New York Mills Sale.

 

[vanridge]

So were the Bates cattle the Milking Shorthorns or were they just good milkers? We bought some heifers from a guy who milks his shorthorns but if they don't give enough milk he puts a calf on them. They have the longer faces, and are kind of hard keepers. That's why we started researching and looked for bulls with moderate frames and lots of thickness (Hatfield Governor 17X and Hatfield Snowman 11W)  Didn't they at one time use Milking Shorthorns to add frame score to beef Shorthorn?

 

[r.n.reed]

By the time the first polled sports showed up in the 1880's the Bates cattle had been bred for so long with the only goal of keeping them pure that they were basicly good for nothing.Is breeding for pedigree single trait selection?While the elitist's were selling to each other their ''pure cattle'',practical farmers,ranchers,and dairymen were adding other strains to improve their cattle the Scotch line being one of them.Sadly enough a few years later a registered Shorthorn was worth little in the purebred arena if it didn't  have a ''pure scotch pedigree.History certainly repeats itself.

 

[Okotoks]

By the time the first polled sports showed up in the 1880's the Bates cattle had been bred for so long with the only goal of keeping them pure that they were basicly good for nothing.Is breeding for pedigree single trait selection?While the elitist's were selling to each other their ''pure cattle'',practical farmers,ranchers,and dairymen were adding other strains to improve their cattle the Scotch line being one of them.Sadly enough a few years later a registered Shorthorn was worth little in the purebred arena if it didn't  have a ''pure scotch pedigree.History certainly repeats itself.

The ironic part is that even Bates introduced new bloodlines when necessary as did Amos Cruickshank but they were master breeders unlike the purists that basicly destroyed the lines by continual linebreeding on pedigree alone. They really didn't do any selection if the pedigree was "right". ???
I may be wrong but I don't think the Bates bred cows the polled sports came from were of the "elite" Bates lines of the times.

 

[oakview]

I'll have to brush up on my history, but I think the Hubbell family of Des Moines was instrumental in developing the polled lines of Shorthorns.  All Shorthorns were registered in the same herd book until the late 1940's, 1948 I believe, when they split into the Milking and Beef books.  A few breeders, such as Haumonts in Nebraska, registered cattle with both associations.  The ASA voted to 'allow' Milking Shorthorns into their herd book in the early 70's, I believe, as long as they traced back to the original Shorthorn herd books.  The Milking Shorthorn Society charged 750 for bulls and 250 for females to process the paperwork if I remember right.  Some beef breeders thought that using the Dual Purpose or Milking Shorthon genetics would allow them to increase growth and frame size in a generation.  I bought one of these bulls and he was the grand champion Shorthorn bull (beef division) at the Iowa State Fair in 1975.  Justamere Todd was the first double registered bull to win the top award at the Iowa State Fair and he did it under a Hereford judge.  Lloyd Hatch of Canada named him grand champion at the Minnesota State Fair 10 days later.  That's a thumbnail sketch of how I remember the Shorthorn history I have learned over the past 50 years.  You have to remember, Shorthorns were originally developed as a dual purpose breed.  Somewhere in the 40's I suppose, somebody decided they wanted the Scotch type, small and boxy, and somebody decided they wanted to continue on with the dual purpose type.  Now we have a few box type, 3.8 frame score cattle, and I suppose some Chianina-like cattle, just like every other breed.  You can rest assured that in the next 20 years, somebody will wonder what we were doing.  Isn't it fun?

 

[vanridge]

This is really interesting stuff!!!  (thumbsup)

 

[JTM]

This makes me want to break out the ol "Red, White, and Roan" book!

 

[OH Breeder]

1792 first shorthorns came into New York 2 head .They may not officially have been called Shorthorn but history indicates the description of the animals could only be Shorthorn blood.

4 head The group of cattle know as the "Seventeens" were imported in the early 1800's in Kentucky. The Ohio Importing Company imported 43 animals in 1835, 1836 and 1837. made a huge difference in Shorthorn history.
1870 Breeders discovered ‘natural hornless’ cattle occurring from time-to-time in horned herds. Thus, Polled Shorthorns were discovered and were the first major beef breed to be developed in the United States.

I just read this recently in a book called
Types and breeds of farm animals By Charles Sumner Plumb
Herd Bull of William Duthie Scotland.

I came across this looking for Scottish bloodlines of the Shorthorn.

 

[vanridge]

I think I am starting to see why there is such a variety in shorthorns. Not just the cattle but the people too. 

 

[Okotoks]

If you had the chance to use any asterisk free shorthorn bulls, which ones would they be?  Would like the semen to be somewhat available.

Brasky
I see the demand in asterisk free bulls on a daily basis. Not trying to stir the "wasps nest" breed any shorthorn to what you want to.
Feel free to email for an entire list of solid proven asterisk free bulls that will be released later this summer.  Many of the bulls collected now (8 to 12)- just waiting for photos. Bulls raised in commerical settings with full time cattlemen operations. Happy to see your interests in shorthorn regardless.

Are these the bulls that are considered "native Shorthorns"?

 

[RyanChandler]

I hope that Touchdown is calving ease sire. I read the articles in shorthorn country....."HC FL Touchdown 123T is one of the Horseshoe Creek herd bulls working the pasture. He is an easy calving sire with all of his calves being born unassisted and weighing 85 lbs or less at birth."

I used four different calving ease sires this year to see if I could find a replacement for Gizmo. I will let you all know how that turns out. I used him on a larger made Jazz x Ace Of Diamonds x Rodeo Drive heifer.

Oh Breeder, that is exactly why always hesitate to promote a bull as safe for heifers, as there are lots of different types of heifers out there, with lots of different genetics in their backgrounds. I have only used Touchdown on a few cows that have any Trump breeding, and the calves have had moderate BWs. I have not used him on any heifers with Trump so how he will work on them is still debatable. Like I said earlier, the heaviest BW last year was 85 lbs but we did have a couple at 95 lb this year out of cows. How particular bulls work in different herds oftentimes makes me scratch my head. One example of this is with Gizmo. I purchased 10 straws of Gizmo a few years ago and used 4 straws. I got 3 calves... 2 bulls and 1 heifer. Both bull calves were well over the 110 lb BW limit I have in my herd, and both were pretty decent pulls, so both were banded. My experience with Gizmo, would suggest he is not a calving ease sire, but I know almost everyone else who has used him has been pleased with the calving ease.The heifer calf was smaller and was born unassisted, but she was not kept as a replacement as she just never grew very well ( which may not have been the sire's fault at all) So I still have 6 straws and every year I tell myself that I should try it again and see if I can get some lower BW bulls from Gizmo. So far, it is still in my tanks.

Truly remarkable how your personal experiences are ALWAYS stated to be so unlike everyone elses'.  Astounding really. 

 

[doc-sun]

I hope that Touchdown is calving ease sire. I read the articles in shorthorn country....."HC FL Touchdown 123T is one of the Horseshoe Creek herd bulls working the pasture. He is an easy calving sire with all of his calves being born unassisted and weighing 85 lbs or less at birth."

I used four different calving ease sires this year to see if I could find a replacement for Gizmo. I will let you all know how that turns out. I used him on a larger made Jazz x Ace Of Diamonds x Rodeo Drive heifer.

Oh Breeder, that is exactly why always hesitate to promote a bull as safe for heifers, as there are lots of different types of heifers out there, with lots of different genetics in their backgrounds. I have only used Touchdown on a few cows that have any Trump breeding, and the calves have had moderate BWs. I have not used him on any heifers with Trump so how he will work on them is still debatable. Like I said earlier, the heaviest BW last year was 85 lbs but we did have a couple at 95 lb this year out of cows. How particular bulls work in different herds oftentimes makes me scratch my head. One example of this is with Gizmo. I purchased 10 straws of Gizmo a few years ago and used 4 straws. I got 3 calves... 2 bulls and 1 heifer. Both bull calves were well over the 110 lb BW limit I have in my herd, and both were pretty decent pulls, so both were banded. My experience with Gizmo, would suggest he is not a calving ease sire, but I know almost everyone else who has used him has been pleased with the calving ease.The heifer calf was smaller and was born unassisted, but she was not kept as a replacement as she just never grew very well ( which may not have been the sire's fault at all) So I still have 6 straws and every year I tell myself that I should try it again and see if I can get some lower BW bulls from Gizmo. So far, it is still in my tanks.

Truly remarkable how your personal experiences are ALWAYS stated to be so unlike everyone elses'.  Astounding really.

NO VINDICTIVE REALLY. Going back 9 years to dig something out just so you can badmouth somebody shows your true character.

 

[knabe]

I thought me and Aj were exhausting.

 

[shortybreeder]

I hope that Touchdown is calving ease sire. I read the articles in shorthorn country....."HC FL Touchdown 123T is one of the Horseshoe Creek herd bulls working the pasture. He is an easy calving sire with all of his calves being born unassisted and weighing 85 lbs or less at birth."

I used four different calving ease sires this year to see if I could find a replacement for Gizmo. I will let you all know how that turns out. I used him on a larger made Jazz x Ace Of Diamonds x Rodeo Drive heifer.

Oh Breeder, that is exactly why always hesitate to promote a bull as safe for heifers, as there are lots of different types of heifers out there, with lots of different genetics in their backgrounds. I have only used Touchdown on a few cows that have any Trump breeding, and the calves have had moderate BWs. I have not used him on any heifers with Trump so how he will work on them is still debatable. Like I said earlier, the heaviest BW last year was 85 lbs but we did have a couple at 95 lb this year out of cows. How particular bulls work in different herds oftentimes makes me scratch my head. One example of this is with Gizmo. I purchased 10 straws of Gizmo a few years ago and used 4 straws. I got 3 calves... 2 bulls and 1 heifer. Both bull calves were well over the 110 lb BW limit I have in my herd, and both were pretty decent pulls, so both were banded. My experience with Gizmo, would suggest he is not a calving ease sire, but I know almost everyone else who has used him has been pleased with the calving ease.The heifer calf was smaller and was born unassisted, but she was not kept as a replacement as she just never grew very well ( which may not have been the sire's fault at all) So I still have 6 straws and every year I tell myself that I should try it again and see if I can get some lower BW bulls from Gizmo. So far, it is still in my tanks.

Truly remarkable how your personal experiences are ALWAYS stated to be so unlike everyone elses'.  Astounding really.

NO VINDICTIVE REALLY. Going back 9 years to dig something out just so you can badmouth somebody shows your true character.

Holy $#!% somebody's quite the little piss-ant.. Talk about true character, he truly does enjoy fighting for the sake of an argument. Somebody is overcompensating for something..
Things okay at home bud??

 

[RyanChandler]

Haha this is actually a pretty solid thread— well up until the fibbing started

 

[shortybreeder]

Haha this is actually a pretty solid thread— well up until the fibbing started

Yeah, too bad an **edited to keep SP clean since it's served it's purpose** had to go and spew his vendetta all over it.

 

[RyanChandler]

Ha ha I’m glad you saw that- defines you perfectly