Breeding Heifers NEED SOME HELP

[TJ]

  I think that many PPL have that same question KFacres. The solution to that one is easy, if we're talking about calving ease bulls for heifers, breed lowlines & just don't keep the females if you are scared of them leading to problems down the road somewhere.
   TJ & Dori, I don't think PPL are trying to purposely argue, but everyone has their opinion and will ask/argue their points. I don't think that it is personal. Keep on keeping on if it's what you believe. That's what makes this board tick. Brent

Valid question... gotta go though... I'll respond in a few hours.   In the meantime, I will simply say that Jerry Adamson naturally calved a fullblood Lowline cow that was AI bred to Dr Who.  

 

[LazyGLowlines]

We know of a fullblood lowline cow that had a natural unassisted charlois calf.  Not something that was done on purpose, of course.

 

[CAB]

  Another calving ease Red Angus bull that I have heard is unbeatable as far as calving ease is concerned is Above & Beyond. Have not personally used him, but my ABS rep says that they will come very,very easy. Just another avenue. Brent

 

[Jill]

If you are looking for a live sale barn calf, Jersey or Lowline either one will get a calf on the ground that you will be able to sell.  Now with that out of the way, I would not waste a year of production just trying to get a live calf.  There are many options for a live calf that will also give you the chance of having a calf you could show or sell for more than market, and yes, we have had many winners out of 1st calf heifers.  I don't know how it works in Texas, but I can guarantee you in Kansas a 48-49 heifer will stand at the bottom of the class, and steers don't fare much better, that is just too small.  I would go with Money Man, Gigolo Joe, Bouncer any of those will also give you a calf that can be registered Maine.  IF you have a place you can show in a Lowline class, then that would be an option, we just don't.

For Savaged, we bred our Dr. Who to Gigolo Joe, don't think there is a better choice if you're looking for Maine genetics to compliment Dr. Who.

Is a 51-52 inch - 1297 lb. steer too small in Kansas?  The NDSU Research shows a 4.4 - 4.8 frame score avg.  At 18 months that is right at 51-52 inches tall.  Also, the entire 3 year test avg. is over 1,200 lbs. & one year it was 1,297 lbs. & that is the average, which means some were over 1,300.  That just shows that they can finish heavy enough & all the steers were out of commercial heifers that were sired & calved out in the NDSU-Dickinson test.  

In Kansas you have Lowline shows in 3 surrounding states... Kansas City, Denver & a JR Show in North Platte.   You can also show them in the AOB division anywhere.  I assume that Kansas has AOB division & I assume that Texas does as well.  And Texas has the Houston Lowline Show.  

You can guarantee that a 48-49 inch heifer will stand at the bottom of a class.  Yet, the Angus breed is trending smaller.  In 2 years, who knows what is going to happen.  I sure don't and neither of us can "guarantee" what a judge will be picking in 2 years.  The show ring changes over time & that is a fact.   Corn prices & drought could both influence change.  So can the economy.    

I don't know about Kansas, but in Arkansas Jacob Hudlow was "undefeated" in the AOB division this past spring.  I incorrectly had him losing 2 shows... but I just reread the article & it says "undefeated" in the AOB division.  He won at least 11 championships that I know of with his heifer, including an Arkansas Spring State Fair.  And she was a 3/4 blood Lowline... which is even smaller than a 1/2 blood.  Respectfully, I submit that Jacob Hudlows show record is the only certainty & everything else (including my own opinion) is nothing more than speculation.  The bottom line is that a 3/4 blood Lowline heifer has been doing a whole lot of winning & she was winning in non-Lowline divisions, so it can't be said that a Lowline X has no chance of winning, no matter how badly somebody wants to type it.      

Is Gigolo Joe going to produce 50 unassisted births out of 50 heifers?  He very well might & he very well might not.  Might his calves beat a Lowline X in the show ring?  That might happen too.  But, to say that a Lowline X will absolutely not work in the show ring, just doesn't have any merit, IMHO.  I think otherwise & Jacob Hudlow knows otherwise.    

Well I can't tell you what happens in Arkansas, but I can tell you in Kansas 51-52 heifers are too small, we have shown Heat Waves that are in that group and the only thing you can put them in is the Market Heifer division because they cut them for not enough performance when the heifers all around you are 7 frames.  We showed at 21 shows last year and the 3 big ones aren't what most kids in 4-H are looking for in a show heifer.  None of us can tell you where the trend is going to be in 2 years if we could predict that we would all be wealthy.
I'm not slamming you, or your breeding choices, not questioning the carcass merit or the doability, I feel Lowlines have there place in the beef business, just don't think they have enough frame to compete in a breeding heifer class where I am showing and from what I have seen Texas isn't much different.

 

[dori36]

i'm not slamming you, I just have questions conserning the future...  Good breeders always look into the future, and that's where the men get seperated from the boys..

Yes, but I have a question for you.. what are you going to breed these half blood lowline heifers back to, not just the first time, but as cows too??   are you going to have to go back lowline, and make 3/4 bloods. or can you go with something else?  

This isn't just a question for your breed, but for any breeder wishing to use calving ease bulls, and keep heifers out of em.. Eventually it will catch up to you.. Smaller calves at birth tend to be smaller calves at weaning, and smaller yearling weights.  Eventually turning your whole herd into small cows that have to be bred calving ease everytime.  Sure it has to do with width from hooks to pins, but that corelates as well

you may correct me if I am wrong... But several cattleman will back me up on this!!  All breeds. crossbreeds combined

I pretty much let TJ do all the "talking" and take all the heat!  Be patient with my rather lengthy post here, but, I'd just like to put a little perspective on this whole thread:  Remember, the original post had to do with getting a live calf out of heifers and the poster was considering a Jersey bull.  The Lowline suggestion came up as it seemed , compared to "wasting" a year with a half dairy calf that probably wouldn't make it in any beef showring, the Lowline could assure a nice low birthweight calf and have a possibility of being competitive in the ring.  I don't think TJ or I suggested it would become a big time steer winner.  But as a potential AOB, very possibly. 

Then, the question on extension/neck length:  My opinion after raising and showing Lowlines for nearly as many years as they've been in the country is that, no, you won't see the extreme extension in most fullbloods.  When they've been shown in the breed (Lowline breed, not open) shows, the trend to win runs more to a balanced, long, thick, clean fronted good beef animal in a smaller package.  Although I'm sure we'll get "faddy" as more shows come online and more Lowlines head to the ring and more/different judges have a chance to see them and influence the direction of the breed, for now they're pretty much judged as any other beef breed in the seedstock competition.  Another conformation fault that used to be pretty common in the first Lowlines in the USA was a tendancy to be thick in the middle, thick and a little short in the neck, peaked over the pins.  When viewed from behind, they peaked pretty badly from the hocks up to the tailhead.  With careful selection by breeders that came up on "regular" beef breeds, today's winning Lowlines hardly ever show that trait now. 

Regarding your question on what to go back to with a halfblood Lowline when you don't want to get into the downsizing of using a fullblood Lowline again (thus getting a 3/4 and repeating and getting a 7/8, etc), there is a whole cadre of percentage Lowline breeders going back to another halfblood and getting what we in the breed call "double halves". Still a registerable halfblood Lowline, still eligible for our percentage show classes but probably not downsized the same step that going back to a fullblood with a halfblood. 

I'll repeat what I said before in my earlier post, there is a place in the industry for these cattle.  Ask Kit Pharo - he uses 2 fullblood Lowline bulls as part of his program to produce a more moderate commercial cow.  (And one of those 'is' Doc Holliday).  We who love the breed probably see a little larger place for them than just producing show cattle.  But, there is no doubt in my mind that Lowlines can and will begin to be blended with some of the great show steer bloodlines for outcrossing and increasing hybrid vigor without losing thickness at the same time moderating birthweights and some of the inefficient sizes of the cow herds in the USA. A good commercial cattleman friend of mine in Wyoming just bought a terrific halfblood Lowline bull from Schmidt Cattle Co in Neb (other half is Angus) and will be using him on a group of heifers this summer.  That's primarily where I see our breed heading in the "regular" cattle world.  And we who raise Lowline seedstock know well that unless we get Lowline genetics into the commercial world of cattle, we may become just another "emu" or "alpaca" or other fad, short lived class of livestock.  We're doing all we can to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[TJ]

Well I can't tell you what happens in Arkansas, but I can tell you in Kansas 51-52 heifers are too small, we have shown Heat Waves that are in that group and the only thing you can put them in is the Market Heifer division because they cut them for not enough performance when the heifers all around you are 7 frames.  We showed at 21 shows last year and the 3 big ones aren't what most kids in 4-H are looking for in a show heifer.  None of us can tell you where the trend is going to be in 2 years if we could predict that we would all be wealthy.
I'm not slamming you, or your breeding choices, not questioning the carcass merit or the doability, I feel Lowlines have there place in the beef business, just don't think they have enough frame to compete in a breeding heifer class where I am showing and from what I have seen Texas isn't much different.

That's fair enough & you obviously know a lot more about Kansas shows than I.  I've never heard of a show where you could not show in AOB because an animal is too small, but it sounds like Kansas does just that.  

I've seen judges (who weren't very good, IMHO) pick cattle based on size.  It happens & no need for me to pretend it doesn't.  It does.  When that does happen, a Lowline cross would be in trouble.  I never once said that you could win every time, just that you could compete.  People get hosed at shows all the time... it happens.  But,  I've seen really good smaller animals win just as many times as they lose, if they are truly good enough, especially in an AOB or multi-breed supreme champion situation.  I suspect that showing Maine's or Shorthorn's they all want the animals to be similar performance & frame score, but when multi-breeds are involved that sometimes completely goes out the window if the judge is worth his or her salt.  

Nobody thought that my sister's Tarentaise heifer stood a chance at the KY State Fair or at the NAILE because it was smaller framed & several hundred lbs. lighter than the others.  However, she won the supreme AOB champion at the KY State Fair & was second in a huge class at the NAILE, behind the reserve AOB champion (Maine X that outweighed her by 300-400 lbs).  She stood 1st the entire class before the judge switched the top pair as he walked to the microphone.  National level judges at both shows too & that was about 15 years ago.  I'd venture a guess that it was actually harder to pull that off then, rather than now.  And my sister & me were her only clippers/fitters, while the other calves had no telling who or what big time fitting outfit working with them.    Combine my sister's heifer with Hudlows heifer & I've just seen too many other similar things happen too many times to convince me that it can't be done.  Now granted, it would take an exceptional female to pull it off, but these Lowline X's don't exactly look like "chopped liver" in the show ring.  

Besides the Hudlow heifer winning in Arkansas... Melinda Houttuin won her division at the World Beef Expo last year with a Lowline X Shorthorn heifer in the AOB.   That's just another example of a Lowline X that did not getting buried in an AOB competition.

With all that said, we are talking about somebody who is probably going to have other calves besides their1st calf heifer's calves.  So, it's not like these calves will be their only shot at winning.  Also, if they decide to sell them, they could be looking at $1,500 - $5,000 per calf or possibly more (depending upon the quality), if marketed as 1/2 Lowline.  Not exactly a sale barn calf price & a lot better than the Jersey option that was originally mentioned.      
                   

 

[TJ]

i'm not slamming you, I just have questions conserning the future...  Good breeders always look into the future, and that's where the men get seperated from the boys..

Yes, but I have a question for you.. what are you going to breed these half blood lowline heifers back to, not just the first time, but as cows too??   are you going to have to go back lowline, and make 3/4 bloods. or can you go with something else?  

This isn't just a question for your breed, but for any breeder wishing to use calving ease bulls, and keep heifers out of em.. Eventually it will catch up to you.. Smaller calves at birth tend to be smaller calves at weaning, and smaller yearling weights.  Eventually turning your whole herd into small cows that have to be bred calving ease everytime.  Sure it has to do with width from hooks to pins, but that corelates as well

you may correct me if I am wrong... But several cattleman will back me up on this!!  All breeds. crossbreeds combined

I pretty much let TJ do all the "talking" and take all the heat!  Be patient with my rather lengthy post here, but, I'd just like to put a little perspective on this whole thread:  Remember, the original post had to do with getting a live calf out of heifers and the poster was considering a Jersey bull.  The Lowline suggestion came up as it seemed , compared to "wasting" a year with a half dairy calf that probably wouldn't make it in any beef showring, the Lowline could assure a nice low birthweight calf and have a possibility of being competitive in the ring.  I don't think TJ or I suggested it would become a big time steer winner.  But as a potential AOB, very possibly. 

Then, the question on extension/neck length:  My opinion after raising and showing Lowlines for nearly as many years as they've been in the country is that, no, you won't see the extreme extension in most fullbloods.  When they've been shown in the breed (Lowline breed, not open) shows, the trend to win runs more to a balanced, long, thick, clean fronted good beef animal in a smaller package.  Although I'm sure we'll get "faddy" as more shows come online and more Lowlines head to the ring and more/different judges have a chance to see them and influence the direction of the breed, for now they're pretty much judged as any other beef breed in the seedstock competition.  Another conformation fault that used to be pretty common in the first Lowlines in the USA was a tendancy to be thick in the middle, thick and a little short in the neck, peaked over the pins.  When viewed from behind, they peaked pretty badly from the hocks up to the tailhead.  With careful selection by breeders that came up on "regular" beef breeds, today's winning Lowlines hardly ever show that trait now. 

Regarding your question on what to go back to with a halfblood Lowline when you don't want to get into the downsizing of using a fullblood Lowline again (thus getting a 3/4 and repeating and getting a 7/8, etc), there is a whole cadre of percentage Lowline breeders going back to another halfblood and getting what we in the breed call "double halves". Still a registerable halfblood Lowline, still eligible for our percentage show classes but probably not downsized the same step that going back to a fullblood with a halfblood. 

I'll repeat what I said before in my earlier post, there is a place in the industry for these cattle.  Ask Kit Pharo - he uses 2 fullblood Lowline bulls as part of his program to produce a more moderate commercial cow.  (And one of those 'is' Doc Holliday).  We who love the breed probably see a little larger place for them than just producing show cattle.  But, there is no doubt in my mind that Lowlines can and will begin to be blended with some of the great show steer bloodlines for outcrossing and increasing hybrid vigor without losing thickness at the same time moderating birthweights and some of the inefficient sizes of the cow herds in the USA. A good commercial cattleman friend of mine in Wyoming just bought a terrific halfblood Lowline bull from Schmidt Cattle Co in Neb (other half is Angus) and will be using him on a group of heifers this summer.  That's primarily where I see our breed heading in the "regular" cattle world.  And we who raise Lowline seedstock know well that unless we get Lowline genetics into the commercial world of cattle, we may become just another "emu" or "alpaca" or other fad, short lived class of livestock.  We're doing all we can to make sure that doesn't happen.

Very well said & I can't disagree with any of it.   

 

[RSC]

My two sense: Do I believe that there is a need in the beef industry for Lowlines?  Absolutely.  Would I possibly consider sampling them some day? Very Possible.  I sold a flush of my Angus donor to a good friend and he flushed her to Doc Holiday.  It will be interesting to see how it turns out.  I think in a commercial situation there is pleanty of merit.  Easy keeping cows will be a huge asset in the next 5-10 years of challanging economic times.

From a show standpoint the stigma is what bothers me the most.  If you are a longstanding Lowline Breeder,  I commend you for your passion.  If you've been at it for a while,  you have most likely set up your connections and have a market for them.  If I get a great one by using a lowline on a clubby cow,  I will have to have a lowline breeder help me with connections to market the calf or else lie(which I won't do) and tell them it's out of an OCC bull or some clubby dink.  I don't doubt that even in the clubcalf business there is a need.  My luck I would use a lowline for a maternal clubby then the showring will change back to want more frame then I'm SOL.  I have some framey cows that I may consider some day giving it a shot.

You bring up Jerry Adamson as an example, and I have the upmost respect for him.  If he says it works,  It sure does in the right situation.  The problem is:  If Jerry does something out of the norm,  He's considered an Innovator.  If I would do it, I'd be condsidered a crazy man.  It's tough enough marketing and paying the bills,  I'm not real interested in having another breed I need to promote.  That's what I need though, One more set of Association fees to pay for.

Nice discussion.  Back to the original thread.  There are bulls that you can find that are proven for calving eas.  Smokin Joe or the Ali clone would be something to consider.  IF the heifers have some size, there are other bulls to use.  Not sure if Star Power is going to be an option from all reports I've heard.  However,  we jusst had one yesterday unasisted out of a heifer.(Pictured Below)

Tony

 

[kfacres]

You know If it gets to the point that I will have to use a lowline on my heifers, then have to come back on those F1/s with another lowline, then and again and again, then I may as well disperse my cow herd today and start raising purbred lowlines...  Anyways, Just stating an opinion.. Not every cow is same, not everybreeder same....  I just think that a majority of these cattle might experience problems in terms of long term calving..

But Truthfully I don't see a problem with the original post in using a Jersey on their heifers.. In short, you would be raising modern day ANGUS cattle.... HHAHAA, curly calf maybe, how do you think they made such improvements in terms of maternal/milking ability, calving ease, and carcass traits-- all while making flat hipped, banana legged cattle...

I guess that might have been uncalled for, but it is the truth...  People need to open their eyes..

Nice discussion.. Someday, I might consider using a lowline, especially if the economny stays the way it is... But it won't be for a long time..

 

[TGH]

After all of this discussion about how a lowline may work or maybe something else will work I'll go back to my original post.  If you want a real calf with real potential for a premium sale out of a heifer use Smokin Joe.  I have used almost every bull possible over the last 12 years and he is without a doubt the best at combining birthweight with everything else that's desirable.  His first major calf crop this spring will prove my point.  Plus, I don't even own him anymore, so not trying to profit by telling you how good he is.

 

[TJ]

i'm not slamming you, I just have questions conserning the future...  Good breeders always look into the future, and that's where the men get seperated from the boys..

Yes, but I have a question for you.. what are you going to breed these half blood lowline heifers back to, not just the first time, but as cows too??   are you going to have to go back lowline, and make 3/4 bloods. or can you go with something else?  

This isn't just a question for your breed, but for any breeder wishing to use calving ease bulls, and keep heifers out of em.. Eventually it will catch up to you.. Smaller calves at birth tend to be smaller calves at weaning, and smaller yearling weights.  Eventually turning your whole herd into small cows that have to be bred calving ease everytime.  Sure it has to do with width from hooks to pins, but that corelates as well

you may correct me if I am wrong... But several cattleman will back me up on this!!  All breeds. crossbreeds combined

When I was a kid we didn't own  a calf pulling winch (never heard of such a thing) & our cows were smaller framed.  It wasn't until we started using Chi's, Charolais, Limmi's, etc., etc., that we began to have some calving problems.  I still remember my dad telling me that they hardly ever assisted a calf when he was a kid & the cattle were a whole lot smaller back then too.  Something to think about... and it left a long lasting impression on me.  He wasn't the only one who told me that either... which made a bigger impression.     

I just heard from a guy in Belton, TX, a day or 2 ago, that I had sold some fullblood heifer calves & a bull last Spring.  He bred 2 of them right away, rather than waiting, & one just calved at 21 months & the other just calved at 22 months... both unassisted.  These were fullblood Lowlines, which are a decent amount smaller than 1/2 bloods.  And the fullblood bull that bred them looked like a monster in his class at Houston last year... he's definately on the bigger end of the Lowline spectrum.  Yet, no problems.  It's also interesting to note, that no bulls in the Lowline breed are promoted as "heifer" or "calving ease" bulls to use on other fullblood Lowlines.  It's just assumed that all of them will work on fullblood heifers. 

Dori has already mentioned breeding 1/2 blood to 1/2 blood.  A lot of people with 1/2 bloods are doing just that & that's what I would recommend, but you wouldn't be limited to that.  Lazy G mentioned somebody breeding a Charolais to a fullblood Lowline cow.  I already mentioned that Jerry Adamson bred Dr Who to a mature fullblood cow (George Jenkins told me that in person).  But, I also want to mention that Jerry also bred 1/2 blood Lowlines to both Hotmail & Dr Who (maybe others... again I know that because George Jenkins bought some of them & told me about it)... I even saw pics of the Hotmail & Dr Who X 1/4 Lowline calves.  I've been told that Neil Effertz has bred both Angus & Charolais to 1/2 blood females & produced 1/4 blood offspring.  Ian Bamford (an Australian friend) had a composite (Lowline X Shorthorn) that he called "Blockies".  He encouraged me to cross Lowlines with Shorthorns 4 years ago & then put the 1/2's back on the same 1/2's.  Ian didn't have enough resources to keep the "Blockie's" going, but he sure thought a lot of them.   

With that said, if it were me, I'd breed the 1/2's to a fullblood or a 3/4 blood or another 1/2 blood the 1st time around.  After that, I'd breed 1/2 blood to 1/2 blood or breed the 1/2's to a relatively easy calving Angus, Red Angus, Charolais, etc. & that includes bulls like Gigolo Joe or Dr Who.  People are doing it.  It's working... no reason to believe that it wont work.  So no, you would not have to come back with an F1 on an F1.  Maybe the 1st time, but not after that.  You could use Dr Who, you could use Gigolo Joe, you could use LT Bluegrass or anything relatively consistent calving ease or moderate calving ease on your 1/2 blood Lowline cows.  Jerry Adamson has already done it.  It will work.  He probably has % Lowline female pictures up on his website still... I haven't looked in a long time.   

With all that said, this thread has really done some drifting...    Dori, is 100% correct.  I never once recommended that everyone go out & use a Lowline on everything... just on the OP's heifers.  The OP mentioned using a Jersey on heifers & I knew about a much better option!  And yes, I think it's MUCH better than a jersey!  An option where you could even produce a show calf!    And since I've yet again mentioned "Lowline" & "show calf" in the same sentence, I will add this... Will the Lowline sired steers win Grand Champion at the NWSS, NAILE, or even a State Fair?  Maybe not, but just how may producers on this board produce champions at those shows (we've raised one... shown by our friend's the Meachem's) & out of the ones who have, just how many calves do you raise per year that don't win?    Just because a Lowline sired calf may not win Grand doesn't mean it wont win it's class or that it can't compete.  My sister won the light weight class 3 years in a row at the KY State Fair, in the 90's, with steers that aren't a bit better or bigger or thicker than what I'm seeing out of the Lowline crosses.  Probably not as thick or as good, if the truth be known.  And RE AOB heifers... Hudlow's heifer & Houttuin's heifer are living proof that a Lowline X wont get automatically buried in AOB. 

Bottom line, I don't think that the Lowline Angus are the ONLY answer for heifers & I never said that they were.  However, I know that Lowlines are exceptionally easy calvers & that is exactly what the OP wanted.  They didn't want something that might work 80 or even 90% of time or they wouldn't have been considering a Jersey.  Any show calf benefits on the side would have been considered a plus.  I only mentioned the show aspect of the Lowlines because I think that it is a plus, IMHO. 

And what's wrong with selling calves for $1,500 - $9,500 a piece?  1/2 blood Lowlines have sold in that price range during the past few years.  I wouldn't sell my LL X  Sin City heifer for less than $7,500 & I'd probably turn that down, even if I reserved several embryo flushes.  It's not like Lowlines aren't in demand & that they don't sell for good money.  Other than semen (I was not pushing that for a while, because we were virtually sold out & robbing from our own personal stash), I rarely have anything for sale & constantly have people looking to buy.  It's a good situation to be in & I just don't see how a person could lose by breeding a couple of heifers to a Lowline bull, I really don't... particularly if they were considering a Jersey. 

 

[farwest]

Did someone say there will be a need for this breed to downsize the angus.  Believe me it will be a cold day in you know what when the angus boys use lowlines to downsize.  They have their breed down to a science.  They will move it any way they want with pure angus genetics.

 

[RSC]

 TJ, Like I said in my earlier post,  I believe there is a definate fit in the commercial industry for Lowlines.  I just can't seem to justify using them in a clubby herd.  So if the only bulls I can use are the select few that you mentioned,  I don't see how I could justify it for use in a club calf herd.   So you reccomend for the most part a very select few clubby bulls or else breed to a half blood that will give me a halfblood that I need to breed to a halfblood and now I am searching for new clients to sell all my halfbood lowlines to.  Like you said there is a market for them, but not locally.   Not saying it won't work,  for the most part I raise cattle to build a herd that my kids can show our calves out of.  If there were local shows for 1/2 bloods it might make me think.  I don't think Dani will allow me to haul the kids to Denver so we can show their lowlinea.

Tony

 

[farwest]

If this person who started this thread didn't want to go maine or clubby, they probably shouldn't have purchased those breed of heifers.  It would be like purchasing herefords to go in the angus business.  another thought.  If this person is wanting in the clubbies, they will soon realize sometimes you gotta walk the plank.  It may be a home run and it may be a disaster.  You hope the home runs out do the disasters.

 

[simtal]

Did someone say there will be a need for this breed to downsize the angus.  Believe me it will be a cold day in you know what when the angus boys use lowlines to downsize.  They have their breed down to a science.  They will move it any way they want with pure angus genetics.

that and epds

 

[BCCC]

If this person who started this thread didn't want to go maine or clubby, they probably shouldn't have purchased those breed of heifers.  It would be like purchasing herefords to go in the angus business.  another thought.   If this person is wanting in the clubbies, they will soon realize sometimes you gotta walk the plank.  It may be a home run and it may be a disaster.  You hope the home runs out do the disasters.

They actually raised these calves. I think they are wanting to go clubby eventually buy don't want to risk it on their heifers,they want to play it safe and make sure the heifer calves alright the first go around and then go for the great one, Which isn't a bad idea at all!

 

[TJ]

If this person who started this thread didn't want to go maine or clubby, they probably shouldn't have purchased those breed of heifers.  It would be like purchasing herefords to go in the angus business.  another thought.   If this person is wanting in the clubbies, they will soon realize sometimes you gotta walk the plank.  It may be a home run and it may be a disaster.  You hope the home runs out do the disasters.

They actually raised these calves. I think they are wanting to go clubby eventually buy don't want to risk it on their heifers,they want to play it safe and make sure the heifer calves alright the first go around and then go for the great one, Which isn't a bad idea at all!

Exactly!

 

[farwest]

What would a calf buyer say if he came to look and you told him your hundred head were out of low lines. Or how would they sell on superior.

 

[RSC]

What would a calf buyer say if he came to look and you told him your hundred head were out of low lines. Or how would they sell on superior.

That's a great point and not totally fair but reality!

RSC

 

[kfacres]

I just wanted to bring up some valuable points..  Lowlines can, and do have a place in the industry.  However, they are not for everyone.  I think you are brining up some really valueable, valid points...It  is just not a good post of topic discussion if some blood doesn't get boiling.. <party>