Cattle injected with air

[farmboy]

leave it up. more people need to see this. so what if PETA sees it.

 

[DL]

The problem is not the words

The problem is that the animals welfare is less important than winning

The problem is that some people find this type of animal abuse acceptable

 

[GoWyo]

Airing is no different than any other form of plastic surgery -- assuming we are talking about the long term version of it.  And that makes it an unethical and illegal (under most state laws) practice with no veterinary medicine benefits.  I understand there is cosmetic dehorning too, which seems to be legal, but might be something that could be challenged.  My own personal bias is that all cosmetic surgical procedures, including airing, are wrong.  The practice misrepresents the animal with something other than a hairdo.  If I ever unwittingly purchase an altered animal misrepresented by the seller, I am not sure what I would do, but would probably start with a lawsuit for fraud.  That goes for the 4-H projects I purchase at our county fair juior livestock sale as well as project steers and heifers that my kid purchases.

 

[PaPigMan]

I have to disagree on the subject of cosmetic dehorning.  Our county fair has a "no horns" rule.  We used to use conventional means to dehorn calves going to show.  The other year we purchased a steer for my son which was cosmetically dehorned.  To the unsuspecting eye, the calf was born polled.  This practice was not done to "alter" the animal and make it place better at the show.

I do not know the originator of this post or anyone else in her county.  Therefore, I cannot attest to what her intentions were.  It does sound like every other county in rural America.  It is a sad fact that when you win consistently, some will think you are cheating.  One of the reasons may be jealousy, the other may be that you, in fact, are cheating.  Who knows?

Unfortunately, all of the practices mentioned earlier are in use across this country.  That in no way makes it O.K.  To say that if you can't beat them, join them, is an idiotic way of thinking.  I would definitely report unethical practices If I witnessed them first hand.  I would not run and tell based on rumor.  So many rumors are started by sore losers.  I have seen good people's names drug through the mud by troublemakers.  Unfortunately, there are those among us who will use every method to their disposal to win and soon everyone who wins is doing something unethical, or worse, illegal.  The process is as follows:  I heard that so and so up there in that county does this to fix that problem and that to correct this.  Those people beat us every year, so they must be doing the same.

In conclusion, cosmetically dehorning, at least in my opinion, in no way compares to "airing" cattle.  If you must "air" your cattle to compete, you need to find another hobby, occupation, etc.  There is absolutely NO excuse for doing this.  If you are caught airing cattle, I hope PETA does show up at your farm.  It's people like you who give them a reason to exist.

 

[afhm]

Airing is not just a steer problem, it goes on with breeding cattle as well.  Many well known ranches do it.  Go down in the yards and look at the carloads next year, how likely is it to get a entire group to be built identical in hip and rump structure the way some of them are.  I had a very highly respected club calf breeder tell me that the reason so many of the clubby bulls have a hard time freezing and staying fertile is because they were aired.  I don't know or see what the correlation is but this guy knows his stuff and I don't doubt him.

 

[knabe]

I had a very highly respected club calf breeder tell me that the reason so many of the clubby bulls have a hard time freezing and staying fertile is because they were aired.  I don't know or see what the correlation is but this guy knows his stuff and I don't doubt him.

anecdotal.  could be overfed, could be overselection on thickness, could be lots of other things.  the easy way to solve this is with a blind test.

i'm pretty sure doc bar wasn't overfed or aired, but his lines are extremely infertile compared to other quarter horse lines, male and female.

doubt is not a negative trait.  it is one of the most effective traits to have.

 

[Dusty]

I have a hard time believing airing is as traumatic of an event for calf as some make it out to be.  I've had people tell me that they numb them up and give them a sedative and its not that big of a deal.  If it was that traumatic you would never get that calf back in a chute again.  They are a smart animal.  You can tell the calves that had their horns removed without enough lidocaine.  When you try to clip their heads they go nutz.

I'm not advocating it, but I wouldn't necessarily lynch someone that did it.  There are worse things done.  Anyone ever use a shock collar to train a dog???

 

[cowz]

The young lady who had the GC Steer at the Colorado fair that was accused of airing was cleared.  I truly feel for this young woman and her family who endured the false accusation.

Her only sin is that she was not a member of the "right family".

 

[justintime]

Seperating the two layers of skin does cause a considerable amount of pain for the animal. While cosmetic dehorning does cause pain for the animal, it always involved freezing the area, and I do not consider it to be in the same realm as airing, and I do not feel that it is cheating. In regards to some of the things we do to show cattle not mattering to anyone but those of us who do it, just take a look at what has happened in European countries, including Britain. It has been illegal to dock a lamb's tail,and castrate a bull calf for a few years now. In some countries, pigs and chickens must not be kept in confinement. We may laugh at this, but it is going to become major issues here as well. The uneducated urban population is getting more and more detached from agriculture, and they will eventually make the rules. That is what has happened in Britain.... it is not a major jump to seeing it happen here.

People who go to Britain wonder why they seem to be in the dark ages when it comes for dressing and showing cattle. I have had several Brits who visit cattle shows here, tell me that most of the products we use here to fit on show day are banned from use other there. I would suggest that every time some on does anything unethical to try to win, we are one step closer to having similar things happen here. Wouldn't it be fun to have a steer show if castration was banned? It could happen.... and probably will, but hopefully not in our lifetimes, but those of us who are active in the business now, may be the cause of this happening. Food for thought,

 

[oakbar]

IMHO  Looking at cattle should be like looking at girls---I'd rather know that all the parts are real before I make the deal!!!

 

[Bawndoh]

One large comment....I think the only thing airing is doing is totally destroying the beef industry, and clubby industry.  Why not just breed better cattle?  Oh yeah, because airing is easier!  
Well...this is just promoting a bunch of false looking animals, who "dont really look like that".  We all know how unhappy people get when they choose a bull from a photo because we thought he looked good...but ended up with garbage calves.  There is never going to be a way to justify airing as "good" or useful.  I think there is a huge difference between growing 3 inches of hair to "sculpt" and animal, and injecting 3 inches of air into a calf to "sculpt" one.  My oh my, the industry will never get any better if its just full of lyers and cheaters and unrealistic cattle!

 

[jason]

IMHO  Looking at cattle should be like looking at girls---I'd rather know that all the parts are real before I make the deal!!!

;D

 

[simtal]

Seperating the two layers of skin does cause a considerable amount of pain for the animal. While cosmetic dehorning does cause pain for the animal, it always involved freezing the area, and I do not consider it to be in the same realm as airing, and I do not feel that it is cheating. In regards to some of the things we do to show cattle not mattering to anyone but those of us who do it, just take a look at what has happened in European countries, including Britain. It has been illegal to dock a lamb's tail,and castrate a bull calf for a few years now. In some countries, pigs and chickens must not be kept in confinement. We may laugh at this, but it is going to become major issues here as well. The uneducated urban population is getting more and more detached from agriculture, and they will eventually make the rules. That is what has happened in Britain.... it is not a major jump to seeing it happen here.

People who go to Britain wonder why they seem to be in the dark ages when it comes for dressing and showing cattle. I have had several Brits who visit cattle shows here, tell me that most of the products we use here to fit on show day are banned from use other there. I would suggest that every time some on does anything unethical to try to win, we are one step closer to having similar things happen here. Wouldn't it be fun to have a steer show if castration was banned? It could happen.... and probably will, but hopefully not in our lifetimes, but those of us who are active in the business now, may be the cause of this happening. Food for thought,

that's typical leftist liberal europe for you and our country is following suit if the "change" happens

 

[vet tech]

ABOLISH THE THREAD! there are three kinds of different people in this thread....people who are against airing, people who dnt really have a problem with it, and people who are into it for amusment. What is being said now is just becoming repetitive and annoying. The people who are against airing and the people who have no problem with airing are both too convinced that they are correct (not saying its a bad thing, just a  fact) and are not going to get their opinions changed. However, my appologies to the people who are watching the thread for their amusment . Nobody's mind is going to be changed and we are only making fools of eachother and ourselves, nobody wins, everyone loses. Lets just stop fighting about everything, including if it hurts the animal or not.....we arn't a cow, how do we know if it hurts them? Do we know how it feels? whether the calf is awake or knocked out and put on pain killers.(not saying it doesnt, iam not stating a opinion on weather it harms them or not) .......nobody wins......we all lose!

 

[DLD]

If airing is destroying the industry, it's certainly a long and slow death, 'cause it's been going on since before I was born, and I'm older than most of you in this thread.  I'm not saying that makes it okay.  I don't like it a bit myself.  I've been around cattle that have been aired (again, for more years than most of you have been alive) and it's not nearly what most of you seem to think.  It simply does not change one that much - it can't give a pen of bulls uniform hip structure (that's genetics and a good clip job), it can't make a light muscled one into a heavy muscled one.  If you got beat by one that was aired, there's a 99+% chance they'd have beat you without the air.

Everything Chambero said is 100% correct.  There are plenty of perfectly safe, legal products available that work far better to do the things airing is supposed to.  Yeah, I'm sure some people are still doing it, and I don't see how any of this is ever gonna change that.

Edited to add - Oh and btw... Cosmetic dehorning is more humane than regular dehorning, IMHO.
In cosmetic dehorning, the calf is anethstitized, the area around the horns are deadened, the hair is clipped short, everything is thoroughly washed, the wound is treated with antiseptics and sewn back up, the calf is treated with antibiotics... How can this be inhumane compared to immobilizing the head, chopping off the horns, and either cauterizing the wound or stuffing it full of cotton and turning them out and forgetting about it???

 

[DL]

Lets just stop fighting about everything, including if it hurts the animal or not.....we arn't a cow, how do we know if it hurts them? Do we know how it feels? whether the calf is awake or knocked out and put on pain killers.(not saying it doesnt, iam not stating a opinion on weather it harms them or not) .......nobody wins......we all lose!

Pain and pain management in cattle is a big issue across the US and Canada (as well as Europe). There are any number of studies in cattle that assess pain and the effect of various pain management techniques - you don't need to be a cow to know what causes them pain. But it would behoove us all to be proper managers of bovine pain and politically astute to the whims of the agriculturally naive who are pushing for restrictive legislation.

 

[herefordfootball]

IMHO  Looking at cattle should be like looking at girls---I'd rather know that all the parts are real before I make the deal!!!

LOL!!! Great Oakbar!!!!

 

[knabe]

IMHO  Looking at cattle should be like looking at girls---I'd rather know that all the parts are real before I make the deal!!!

i'd venture to say there is more "airing" done after the deal than before.  talk about needing a reality check. ;D

 

[OH Breeder]

Lets just stop fighting about everything, including if it hurts the animal or not.....we arn't a cow, how do we know if it hurts them? Do we know how it feels? whether the calf is awake or knocked out and put on pain killers.(not saying it doesnt, iam not stating a opinion on weather it harms them or not) .......nobody wins......we all lose!

Pain and pain management in cattle is a big issue across the US and Canada (as well as Europe). There are any number of studies in cattle that assess pain and the effect of various pain management techniques - you don't need to be a cow to know what causes them pain. But it would behoove us all to be proper managers of bovine pain and politically astute to the whims of the agriculturally naive who are pushing for restrictive legislation.

VET TECH,
My statement if you read was directed at my experience with traumatic injuries in humans. I am trying to understand the practice in comparison with what I know about human Anatomy and physiology. I don't think there is anything wrong with asking questions. I am assuming you are a vet tech and would also assume you anesthetizes animals for surgical procedures as well as other things. If you are a vet tech then why do you use anesthetic for surgical procedures? I am not trying to be a smart ass but ask honest questions.

Dusty
thank you for information. They numb and give meds. That makes sense. We too have had calves that were nuts when in a chute and you touched there head. Those calves were not calves I had personally had dehorned. I have a great vet that literally puts them out when dehorning. We recover them just like they had a general surgery procedure. Our calves are very calm and gentle when dealing with their heads ( i feel because of the way we dehorn).

Thank you to the person who took the time to explain some things to me in private message. I think this board is a valueable resource for us all.

 

[aj]

Steer jocks are crooked bastards.....end of story. They aren't breeders of cattle they are traders of cattle. Guess they are to lazy or not smart enough to have a real job. They can impregate women and they do look look good in blue jeans but they are leaches. Jmo I guess after the mafia and jocks get done with me there won't be much left of me. ;D