County Show = Popularity Contest

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Gmc cattle

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Green 8911, you say you will be going to the majors. I hope your calf gets to the ring really early for one particular show or you will be really pissed when the judge doesn't even look at your child's calf and is dismissed from ring.
 

knabe

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Gmc cattle said:
Green 8911, you say you will be going to the majors. I hope your calf gets to the ring really early for one particular show or you will be really pissed when the judge doesn't even look at your child's calf and is dismissed from ring.


i'm getting a feeling that the majors are just another form of favoritism and fodder for a longer thread.
 

AndersenClubCalves

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Feb 28, 2011
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American Falls, ID
I'm curious to know if your child is as concerned about the price as you are. Being only 19 this is the first year not showing steers since I was eight. I have an incredible mother who would do anything in the world for me and I have seen her become extremely upset about the price my steer sold for. I put in the time and the hours and finally received the Grand champion title last year. When I walked in the sell ring I could care less what the numbers come out to be, I WON. I was the first one in the ring, carrying the banner. I honestly cannot tell you an exact number of what any of my steers sold for. To clarify, no my mom and dad did not take my check, no they did not buy my steers, I bought them. Back to the point, The ribbon, the banner, the memories, that's what will last regardless of price. One more tidbit. I sold the Grand champion steer this year, the people that received reserved were pissed about it. Her Father ran her steer up to over seven dollars a pound ( Extremely high for our county fair) it didn't bother me a bit because, I HAD THE BANNER!
 

knabe

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AndersenClubCalves said:
I sold the Grand champion steer this year, the people that received reserved were pissed about it. Her Father ran her steer up to over seven dollars a pound ( Extremely high for our county fair) it didn't bother me a bit because, I HAD THE BANNER!


we should legislate that the $7/lb should be distributed to the other competitors or shut down the show.  this unequal distribution of results and income is an outrage.  every entrant should have their own grand champion ribbon. there should be multiple printings of the local newspaper so that every child has the grand champion and high seller.
 

green8911

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XBAR and OH Breeder said it right.  Just set the rules so placement coincides WITH the auction bidding.  If the big names in the county want to bid up their animals, fine, go ahead.  But before they can do so, the kid who is raising him has to work hard to get him to a top spot. 

Yes OH Breeder, I now know what to do going into next year with my son. 

And he's not only "concerned" about the price, he was torn up.  He too was thinking price coincided with placement.  We took out a loan for his steer and he is just as concerned as I am about paying it off.  I know you don't go into this expecting to make money, but you do hope to put a little bit of a dent in it.  So here he is with a loan over his head and a top placing animal, and there's little johnny with a last place animal and no loan, and little johnny big hat gets more $$ than anyone.  Yes, yes, yes, I've heard it, "that's life".  But this is the show ring, where we're trying to set our kids straight, and teach them that hard work pays off.
 

JSchroeder

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You put your child in debt for a show steer?

Don't say you aren't coveting when the only reason you are upset is somebody else got more.  That's pretty much the definition of coveting.
 

RyanChandler

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knabe said:
AndersenClubCalves said:
I sold the Grand champion steer this year, the people that received reserved were pissed about it. Her Father ran her steer up to over seven dollars a pound ( Extremely high for our county fair) it didn't bother me a bit because, I HAD THE BANNER!


  this unequal UNFOUNDED distribution of results and income is an outrage.
 

knabe

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green8911 said:
Because if the outcome is that the people in the community are only going to "bid up" the popular family names, then really the only reason they're "baiting" no-name kids into the whole mess is to keep the show itself alive so they have enough participation to even have a show in the first place for their "popular" named kids to attend.  What a crock of ...............


sounds like a good enough reason to me.  you want the same thing but are too caught up in something to see it.
 

knabe

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green8911 said:
  We took out a loan for his steer and he is just as concerned as I am about paying it off.


There's probably the most imprtant learning lesson right there.
 

chambero

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Getting me stirred up again....

XBAR - have you in any way fashion or form ever particpated in Grayson County Youth Fair as an exhibitor, livestock board member, or buyer?  If not (and I'm guessing the answer is no), you are talking out your .... again.

Using the term "kickbacks" is ridiculous.  Since plenty of you obviously have no idea how these programs work:

Typically the county shows themselves do not have any money other than what they get in the way of a commission off of the auctions to pay for facilities, judge expenses (usually volunteered, but they get paid mileage, etc)., etc.  Everything about one of these organizations/committees is volunteer.  The people that run them and sit on them are hardly ever "show people".  They are usually community leaders or some parent whose kids are finished showing. Unlike a lot of things, these shows do a pretty good job of trying to avoid conflicts of interest.  THE SHOW ITSELF HAS NO FUNDS OR AUTHORITY TO SAY WHAT ANIMAL WILL SELL FOR HOW MUCH.  There are legal issues associated with that approach that it takes a show as big as Houston to get around.

There are often semi-affiliated organizations that try to raise money for the auctions.  Well organized counties often have multiple ones:  one that focuses on raising money for grand and reserve champions, one that raises money for a county-wide pool, and some towns will raise money for kids from that town.  For example, I'm almost certain that Grayson County has the first type, not sure about the rest.  Where I grew up (Denton County), we had all three.  Where I live now, we only have the second.  Almost all of the time, each of these organizations tries to set minimum amounts that whatever their special interest will receive ("guaranteed" amounts for grands, etc).  Most of these types of groups have multiple events throughout the year to raise money.  There are never enough people helping with these efforts - hence the get off your *** and quit griping and help comments.

If you have a public auction like these county fairs, you cannot legally prevent someone from coming in and paying as much as they want to for a last place animal.  Why on God's green earth would you even want to?

For you fools that cite major shows as the example of perfection, you obviously haven't ever been a part of one of those either.  Sale prices at the Fort Worth and San Antonio steers sales are all over the place.  Fort Worth doesn't really have a trend from higher placing to lower placing at all.  The third highest selling steer in the sale is almost always the last place steer to go through the sale ring.  Any calf out of the Hereford or Angus breeds almost always bring substantially more than similar placing exotic calves.  Heaven help the reserve exotic steer if he doesn't win reserve overall, some years he doesn't bring any more than a placing exotic steer (which is still very good money). 

In San Antonio, your calf typically brings a lot more if your kid is from that area than a kid with a calf from the panhandle.  AND THAT'S OK TOO!

The Texas majors have those same kinds of special interest, fund-raising committees.  For example, Fort Worth has one that focuses on raising money for pigs shown by girls.  AND THAT'S OK TOO!

Houston is the only show that has a set price based on placing.  And the only thing that "show people" in this state can agree upon is that their model really, really sucks (EXCEPT THAT IT REALLY DOESN'T).  I used to think that it did till THE chairman of the steer fund raising committee started working for my company and explained to me exactly how it worked. 

The reality is that Texas is blessed with thousands of people and businesses that really work hard to support FFA and 4-H programs.  It's not the "big time show people" behind these fund raising efforts.  My family falls somewhere in the middle tier of that category and we'd keep doing what we do no matter what our kids sell for at a county show.  That wasn't a typo - we are "selling" our kids, not animals in these deals.  If you ask the buyer of the grand champion steer at Fort Worth what they bought, they'd tell you a kid. 

I like to deal in real data.  I'll take our county show sale which was Saturday night to show you how these things go with a little anonymous commentary on the kids with each steer.  We are a relatively small, rural county with little industrial base.  Total proceeds from the auction (a premium sale) was $65,900 - a little less than last year for steers, goats, lambs, and pigs.

Grand Champion Steer - $3,000.  As much as we show and do well at majors, that was the first time son won Grand Overall (this was his 7th try).  Bought by the estate of old maid rancher who died last year.  Her attorney did the bidding.  The grand steer was bringing that price no matter who had it.

Reserve Grand Champion Steer - $2,800.  Shown by a senior boy - great super hard-working kid everybody knows.  His dad works at the local feed mill and so does the kid after school and on Saturday, calf was bought by the owner of the feed mill.

3rd Steer in Sale (1 place lightweight) - $1,500.  Shown by sister of the boy who had reserve grand.  Bought by an out-of-town construction company that the guy who helps these kids with their calves invited to come to the auction.  Who bought I don't know how many other pigs and sheep owned by kids they've never heard of in their life.

4th Steer in Sale (2nd place lightweight) - $900.  Shown by my youngest son.  Bought by aforementioned feed mill, who me and my family spend over $50K a year with on cattle feed.

5th Steer in Sale (3rd place heavyweight) - $1,000.  Shown by another kid that the same guy with Lot 3 helps out, bought by another construction comapny he invited.

6th Steer in sale - $700.  Didn't know much about this girl, but nice looking calf.  Bought by partership between local pharmacy and a local crop duster.

7th Steer in Sale - $700.  Bought by local business pool.

8th and Last Steer in Sale - $750.  Half starved calf.  Some of you grass-fed boys might have liked him.  Bought by same local feed mill.  No reason in the world that calf should have brought a little more than the others except for the buyers wanted to spend that.

There are a lot more ups and downs in pig and goat sales (which I don't have time to list).

There are some county shows in Texas that brings about as much money as Texas majors (central and southeast TX in particular) that more kids and more businesses.

Every single county show in the state (and country for that matter) has the requiste handful of people that ***** the week after the show.  And then they don't think about the show again till the sale next year.  And you can always find people who "want to change things", till it comes time to show up to the first livestock association meeting after the show.  That's when you get your list of people that really care about something besides themselves.

And this indignity about the Reserve American steer not bringing enough?  She already said they didn't have breeds and that there were less than 20 calves there?  Exactly how many American calves were there - 2, 3?  In most south Texas counties, buyers will spend more on kids showing American calves than anything else because that's what the ranchers have in that part of the world.  There's more to this story than she's telling I'll bet. 

 

Heismanziel

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College Station
Lulz hell no xbar hasn't competed in a county show and if he did you know he probly got last and made some snide remark about how his animal was on pasture only.

Who cares anyway these county show are run by old white folks embezzleing money for their own.  So your numbers are down and you dont open it up to other counties, dumb. Oh no one comes to your fair. How about getting a carnival setup with rides and make it a real fair. Or how about an exhibits area for smaller vendors not just John Deere and shitty chevy trucks. The people who run these shows are clueless thats why they are bush league.
 

vc

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Our county fair is bigger than our state fair, both in entries and visitors to the fair. But Del Mar in July is much nicer than Sacramento in July. Our fair does not have any programs for buying animals or setting prices at auction, your on your own. They do do allot of Scholarship programs, most of that if funded by animals burchased then donated back to the scholarship program, these animals are then sold for a set price per pound.
Our county fair grand got more than the state fair grand this year. Average price on beef was 3 a pound GC went for 13 reserve for 12. Rich kids, no, kids that had made a good impressions on the people they had came in contact with, you could look at their animals and see the work they had put into them, I know for a fact the grand was purchased for $1800 out of the pasture. The buyers talked about the kids and not the animals, when I spoke to them.

Most of our buyers are there for 2 things to support the kids and put meat in the locker, blue ribbon animals only sell and you may only sell one animal in the auction (unless you have champion or reserve)

My boss/ best friend's (since we met in 4H in the 70's) family has been purchasing animals at the fair for over 50 years. I know for a fact that one year he spent $45,000 on animals he bought 3 steers, one of which was sent to the scholarship program, no one bid on it he bought it for average, he did the same on 8 hogs, 4 sheep, and I believe a goat that year. He took home 2 steers, 2 hogs and a veal. He makes a practice of bidding on every animal he receives a letter on, he does not buy every animal but will bid, if they take off then he lets them go.
I have taken home beef I did not need because a could not stand to see the kid sit in the ring and not get a bid, I started it off, bid myself up twice and ended up buying it. She did not make much but she did come to me and thank me for helping her out that day. I all so received a thank you letter later that summer.

To combat the the risk of losing money, one of the FFA groups in the county presales all their calves, they show them but do not run them through auction. Kids do not make as much but then they do not run the risk of losing either. They buy commercial calves, feed them commercial feed, keep all their imputes down, they will not win a show or a class for that matter but they make money.

We have a smaller fair that runs about a month after county, we used to take our second animal up there to show and sell. A more local deal, we would show up early help build pens , clean up trash, whatever they asked, but come auction time our kids got on the low side of average.
We were not locals, we still sold them they made some money,  we knew the deal  going in. After several years of doing it the kids started getting better money, people up there started recognizing their name from the year before and they made friends with the local kids, met the other kids parents, left an impression.

My youngest is now in college and doing great, gets his work done and if it takes him an all nightie he does it, I contribute allot of his work ethic to his livestock projects, work first play after. He did not learn that from the check he got at the end, or the ribbons, banners, or buckles, it was more from the experience and memories from those years.

The last thing I have to say is I have about 6 or 7 people I consider close friends, everyone of them was from 4H and FFA, some live far away others close, but anyone of them could call and ask for help or I could do the same, we would all be there for the one that needed it. That is what I think the projects are about.
 

BTDT

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Jan 26, 2013
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I might as well beat the dead horse...

Green - So you say hard work should be rewarded by high dollars and that hard work should be rewarded by a high class payment.  When I showed youth, I was less than a nobody. I did not BUY a project, I went to my Dad's pasture and picked one.  I then, haltered it for the first time, and tied it up and started the daily work. I would spend HOURS on my calf. I had the bruises and broken bones to show for it too. I did not have a wash rack. I did not have a cooler. But I took a clean, well mannered steer to the show. I never placed in the top half of the class for the first 6-7 years. So, in your opinion, I should not have been rewarded by a high auction price? But little johnny, who bought a halter broke clipped calf, should be?? 
My last few years, my Dad finally AI'd a few cows and I while I still showed something out of the pasture, I did place in the top 5 a time or two. I did not work any harder, and I did not deserve the ribbon any more or less than I would have the previous years.

Now that I am in the "real world" and have made the rounds a time or two (or three), the lessons I learned from my hard work and getting no reward versus a lot of reward, have proven invaluable. I understand that while there are times I will not get "just compensation" for my hard work, I know it will pay off in the long run.  I also understand how to take "defeat" and win without "arrogance". 

Green - please. Please take a deep breath and realize that while you want to do the best for your child, sometimes the best is to allow the child to gather strength from "injustice" and allow your child to grow and realize their own personal strength. Trust me, your child will look back and thank you.

 

SandyB

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Green I have to say I can totally relate. This past year was my daughter's first year with a market animal, a lamb. We actually bought two lambs from FFA member who was breeding top club lambs, so we paid a nice sum for them. My daughter worked theses lambs daily and poured her heart out in to their care. Her main lamb was a heavyweight and came in 2nd place in its division. She went on to the Champion Drive and the lamb that beat hers ended up the Supreme Champion and she was almost given the nod for reserve. Her back up lamb took 3rd in its weight division. Not too shabby for her first year in a 4-H Market project. She also won the Novice Showmanship class. When it came time to sell her lamb (she could only sell one) she had one bid at $4.00 a pound. Now mind you, I drove her around for a couple days a couple week before this fair so she could hand out her "buyers" letters and invite businesses to come support the youth. She did her homework. What was disappointing is that there were kids with lambs that finished last in their division or honestly looked like crap and were not finished that got $5 to $8 a pound. You know what I was told? Well you have to pay your dues. I did not like hearing that either. My daughter paid her dues for months. She fed her lambs like she was trying to win state and exercised them and made sure they were eating and gaining. She contacted buyers and handed out letters. She did everything right. The buyer who bought her lamb was not even a person she handed a letter to. Needless to say she was pretty devastated and so was her dad and I. So what can you do? You can try to solicit new buyers. We have decided that she is going to go out a couple months early this year and hand out letters about the Junior Livestock Auction and ways that businesses and individuals can support it. She plans to tell them about the option of ad ons and how by their support they are supporting the future of agriculture and leadership. She will then make her rounds once again just before the sale with her buyers letters. My goal as a parent is to get more buyers there that do not know the "popular" kids. I told my daughter that as disappointed as we all are, we are not quitters. That to me she was a winner in how she kept her chin up in spite of disappointment. The reality is, this happens in every sport unless its a timed event. So keep your chin up and keep on keeping on.
 

Limiman12

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SW. Iowa
Kevin A said:
I think a lot of you and especially green are missing the point. Its not a popularity contest, THEY ARE SAYING THANK YOU FOR DOING BUISNESS WITH US.


(clapping) (clapping) (clapping)

And yes, it is essentially a public "cutting a check" to thank people.  You were there for four months.  No one knew you, next year some people would know you.    Had you spent half the time with this years buyers list, sending them thank yous for supporting the fair that you spent bashing those people on this sight for not supporting a kid they did not know, you would have gone a long way towards solving your problem.  That is how to use social media in a way that will benefit your kid, and the rest of the kids in the county.
 

chambero

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SandyB is handling things correctly.  Disappointment is very different emotion than bitterness and spite.  How you deal with disappointment sets winners and losers apart throughout life.
 
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