ET Weston Ablo daughter

[Okotoks]

At some point Librarian asked for a photo of Weston Ablo, but I don't remember which thread. I finally found one taken when he was 2 years. I wish I had a mature photo of him on pasture. Pictured is a yearling bred heifer by Wesyon Ablo out of Diamond Nona Maid 61N plus photos of Ablo and 61N. The fourth photo another daughter of 61N, Diamond Unica Maid 9U. We had retained a flush in this cow and now have two confirmed pregnancies by Balmoral Oaks Eagle 9X.

 

[knabe]

nice bonanza grandson.


http://www.paintvalleyfarms.com/animals/our-bulls/balmoral-oaks-eagle-9x


i hope there is semen on bonanza.

 

[librarian]

Thanks for posting the pictures!
Looking back behind 61N to find the source of the high marbling EPD, it seems to come from thru the Winalot Mona's, but the accuracy is zero. How do they surmise these high marbling percentiles? Wondering about the methodology. There has to be something back there to put the EPD percentile rank so high. How does one figure out where it came from?

 

[Okotoks]

Thanks for posting the pictures!
Looking back behind 61N to find the source of the high marbling EPD, it seems to come from thru the Winalot Mona's, but the accuracy is zero. How do they surmise these high marbling percentiles? Wondering about the methodology. There has to be something back there to put the EPD percentile rank so high. How does one figure out where it came from?

I was wondering that too! I was guessing that animals related had high marbling but because they were far back in the pedigree the accuracy isn't there. We have been using Australian genetics and some North American that have high marbling and high accuracy. I guess we will find out when we start scanning the progeny.

 

[r.n.reed]

Cattle look good Dan,I can still see that ''Diamond '' phenotype'' I first saw 17 years ago.
I have been digging around a little on the ASA website in search of high marbling Shorthorn bulls and it has been a challenge.I did a strictly marbling search with a minimum of.49 using marbling as the sort.The first issue is that the columns are incorrect,fat is under the carcass weight heading etc.The second issue is the list of high marbling Shorthorn bulls are all Angus.I noticed that the top percentile for Shorthorns was .75 so when I punched that in, the list was primarily Holstein influenced Milking Shorthorns.When I punched the same parameters in for bulls only there were still primarily MS's some grade Shorthorns and few old beef bulls nearly 100 years old.Apparently entry level animals were given a .75 marbling epd. I backed the top end off to .72 and a few
modern times Shorthorns showed up but still primarily MS's.As an interesting side note I pulled a cow up on this list from one of the top performance herds in this country.Her sire did not have a pedigree and she was listed as 98% pure Shorthorn.One other thing I have noticed is the breed rankings for marbling do not always line up with the percentile table.As an example I have one bull who should be in the top 4% and his epd's say 15 another should be  in top 1% and he is ranked in the top 5%.We as a breed both Association and breeders have a lot of work to do.

 

[beebe]

Gary can you elaborate on that?  Are you saying that the website is messed up, and or that Shorthorns need to improve the marbling?

 

[r.n.reed]

Beebe,The Association needs to clean up the website.A potential customer won't work as hard as I  did to find answers.I think this thing will be great once its cleaned up and it will enhance the perception that we want accurate data.Breeders can help in the process by checking their own herd reports and reporting issues to the office, there are a lot more out there and if you are like me you might even find a couple of your own mistakes.
As to marbling,we use to be known for it and now it appears to have been bred out of the breed generally.The marbling trait leader list for high accuracy bulls only has a 1/2 dozen animals that are positive for this trait.The only way to change that is for breeders to roll up their sleeves and collect and report the data to show what we have and work from there.Not saying we want to marble to the extreme as those types tend to be high maintenance on the avg.

 

[Okotoks]

Cattle look good Dan,I can still see that ''Diamond '' phenotype'' I first saw 17 years ago.
I have been digging around a little on the ASA website in search of high marbling Shorthorn bulls and it has been a challenge.I did a strictly marbling search with a minimum of.49 using marbling as the sort.The first issue is that the columns are incorrect,fat is under the carcass weight heading etc.The second issue is the list of high marbling Shorthorn bulls are all Angus.I noticed that the top percentile for Shorthorns was .75 so when I punched that in, the list was primarily Holstein influenced Milking Shorthorns.When I punched the same parameters in for bulls only there were still primarily MS's some grade Shorthorns and few old beef bulls nearly 100 years old.Apparently entry level animals were given a .75 marbling epd. I backed the top end off to .72 and a few
modern times Shorthorns showed up but still primarily MS's.As an interesting side note I pulled a cow up on this list from one of the top performance herds in this country.Her sire did not have a pedigree and she was listed as 98% pure Shorthorn.One other thing I have noticed is the breed rankings for marbling do not always line up with the percentile table.As an example I have one bull who should be in the top 4% and his epd's say 15 another should be  in top 1% and he is ranked in the top 5%.We as a breed both Association and breeders have a lot of work to do.

Thanks Gary! This year we have a pen of yearling heifers by several sires and a few are ET's. In spite of the varied backgrounds I think they are a very useful group. They are all bred to Diamond Lord Belmore 56B a son of The Grove Kookaburra W735. In the Australian herd book Kookaburra is a trait leader for marbling with a plus 1.2, accuracy of 85% with 274 scanned progeny. I am not sure why the ASA is on their 3rd EPD provider or how that would reflect the accuracies. I know that I need to submit more scan data which I plan on doing in the future. I may have to start looking at retained ownership of my steers to get some actual carcass data.
Here are some pics of some of the other bred heifers.

 

[Okotoks]

and a few more

 

[Duncraggan]

Great heifers there Okotoks!

Interesting topic insofar as marbling goes, are the Shorthorn EPD's still linked to red Angus, Simmental and Gelbvieh?

The marbling and IMF traits are my current target, the cattle seem to hold their condition better and are generally easier doing. I might have gone too much for growth traits in the last few years.

Feed conversion also seems to be something to consider, there is a test station opening up down the road from me on 19 November and I will hopefully be able to test for that as well.

 

[frostback]

#1 Brass Susan
#2 Secret Maid
#3 Bright Sparkle
#4 Birch May

 

[librarian]

9B.

 

[Okotoks]

9B.

9B is one of my favourites and I can't believe how far back some of the animals bred at Frimley and Diamond are in her pedigree.  Frostback we still have to get a photo of Diamond Beautifully Maid 24B, the roan full sister to Exquisitely!


                                                                                                              EIONMOR MR GUS 89C
                                                                                GLENFORD GUS 4H X-[CAN]M467280-
                                    GLENFORD GUS 40N X-[CAN]M470436-
                                                        GLENFORD LASS 23J -[CAN]F673748-
                      BIRDTAIL G GUS 1W X-[CAN]M474533-
                          BUTTERFIELD ABLE SEAMAN X-M461819-
                    HERBOURNE ROSELYNN 1S X-[CAN]F682558-
                          HERBOURNE ROSELYNN 26J X-[CAN]F673140-
HERBOURNE B MANITOBA GUS 13Z                         SUTHERLAND BUNDABERG
                        HERBOURNE BUNDY 23P X-[CAN]M470982-
              HERBOURNE BUNDY 12T -[CAN]M472818-
                        HERBOURNE PPG KATIE 19K X-[CAN]F674808-
HERBOURNE GINGER MAID 5W -[CAN]F686141-         DIAMOND HIGH STAKES 14H
                                        RENOSA HIGH STAKES 9L X-[CAN]M469169-
                              HERBOURNE RHS GINGER MAID 15P X-[CAN]F680075-
                                                        HERBOURNE GINGER BERRY 4G X-[CAN]F671563-
DIAMOND BILLIE SUSAN 9B
     
                                                          WESTON SHAMROCK X-[US]3586351-
                            READY GO X-M448540-
                                          MAYFLOWER GAL 2 X-[US]3372207-
MATLOCK RED SNIPER 1U X-[CAN]M473431-           SUTHERLAND BUNDABERG
                                FRIMLEY PILSNER 5P X-[CAN]M471229-
                                                                                                          FRIMLEY LOVELY DAWN 14L
CIRCLE M CANDY'S SUGAR PLUM 6S X-[CAN]F682138-   DIAMOND CAPTAIN MARK 27C
                        CIRCLE M CANDY'S NUGGET 8N -[CAN]F678729-
FRIMLEY YADIRA SUSAN 15Y                               NORTHERN LEGEND 3N
                      DIAMOND RISING LEGEND 1R X-[CAN]M471576-
FRIMLEY TITAN RISING 34T X-[CAN]M472801-
                      FRIMLEY NYLA CLARE 14N X-[CAN]F679196-
FRIMLEY WONDER SUSAN 5W X-[CAN]F686748-
                                        EIONMOR ULTRA 67K X-[CAN]M468593-
            FRIMLEY NAN SUSAN 2N X-[CAN]F679190-                       DIAMOND JOHN DENVER 1J
                                                      FRIMLEY LADY SUSAN 29L X-[CAN]F676288-
                                                                                                              DIAMOND JOY SUSAN 28J

 

[beebe]

Beebe,The Association needs to clean up the website.A potential customer won't work as hard as I  did to find answers.I think this thing will be great once its cleaned up and it will enhance the perception that we want accurate data.Breeders can help in the process by checking their own herd reports and reporting issues to the office, there are a lot more out there and if you are like me you might even find a couple of your own mistakes.
As to marbling,we use to be known for it and now it appears to have been bred out of the breed generally.The marbling trait leader list for high accuracy bulls only has a 1/2 dozen animals that are positive for this trait.The only way to change that is for breeders to roll up their sleeves and collect and report the data to show what we have and work from there.Not saying we want to marble to the extreme as those types tend to be high maintenance on the avg.

Back in the 70s the association made a deal with Padlock Ranch to AI cows to Shorthorn bulls.  The calves were finished and carcass data was collected.  I believe that type of program would be helpful today.  I have to admit that I do not know what the association is doing today.  They may have some type of program that is better.

 

[huntaway]

Very good set of heifers okotoks.

Beebe,The Association needs to clean up the website.A potential customer won't work as hard as I  did to find answers.I think this thing will be great once its cleaned up and it will enhance the perception that we want accurate data.Breeders can help in the process by checking their own herd reports and reporting issues to the office, there are a lot more out there and if you are like me you might even find a couple of your own mistakes.
As to marbling,we use to be known for it and now it appears to have been bred out of the breed generally.The marbling trait leader list for high accuracy bulls only has a 1/2 dozen animals that are positive for this trait.The only way to change that is for breeders to roll up their sleeves and collect and report the data to show what we have and work from there.Not saying we want to marble to the extreme as those types tend to be high maintenance on the avg.

Back in the 70s the association made a deal with Padlock Ranch to AI cows to Shorthorn bulls.  The calves were finished and carcass data was collected.  I believe that type of program would be helpful today.  I have to admit that I do not know what the association is doing today.  They may have some type of program that is better.

I think programs like this are vital for improving the accuracy of the epd's. The durham project in Australia did a great job for shorthorns there and has only now been copied by a number of other breeds including angus. They are currently looking for nominations for sires for a progeny test that has each sire used over 60 cows in two herds and all performance data collected and put into breedplan. Think there will be 10 sires used so will hopefully be able to get semen on one to link our herd with the project.

With poor quality data collected through small management groups for comparison within herd, either little variation genetically  or in the data and poor linkages to other herds identifying what you have is difficult because all that will essentially come out are mid parent values.

If I was a commercially oriented herd in North America I would be trying to establish a breeders group with like minded WHR herds , where we agreed to each year put a small number of cows to the same bull and fully recorded all progeny especially replacement females.

 

[r.n.reed]

9b here as well,well balanced and the best rear 1/3 by the pictures presented.
Huntaway is right a group effort will move us farther faster.I like the idea of using multiple herds rather than 1 or 2 large test herds to avoid a regional or environmental bias.
I can't resist kicking a dead horse but we had the foundation for this type of project laid about 10 years ago.Most of those breeders switched rather than fight,simple economics.

 

[librarian]

How many steers per sire group is enough to draw a meaningful conclusion on carcass quality?
If I was buying steers to finish as grass fed and sell under a Shorthorn label, what would be a reasonable EPD for marbling on sires to use as a minimum threshold? I am thinking 0.5? Are there 5 breeders out there with bulls that would meet that threshold that have steers raised on pasture and milk only? This is the easiest easy way to collect data I can think of. I'm suggesting grassfed because it rapidly sorts the easy keepers while providing a high end ground beef market for the low end of the grading scale.

 

[librarian]

I see I set my threshold too high.
CCL6th and 4508 are both 0.32. These are the type genetics that I think will succeed in this market. I'm looking for others.
So I'll set the threshold at 0.3.

 

[RyanChandler]

26B for me.  They're all pretty nice but if I had to pick one for me it would be 26.

 

[RyanChandler]

I'm looking for others.

I think you're gonna find the grass fed 'types' to all be below average in terms of marbling.