Irish Whiskey

[knabe]

so, is his semen available for $50?

by supporting the distribution of carrier bulls, i would not classify them as disregarding interest.  i think they are interested in making a profit and were probably the first semen distributor that saw they had the potential to get ahead of the curve and sell PHAF/THF semen to those that were interested as well as carrier semen to those who wish to use it.  by a test on all their bulls they sell semen on, everyone can make a better informed decsion on how they would like to pursue their objectives.

 

[JbarL]

so, is his semen available for $50?

by supporting the distribution of carrier bulls, i would not classify them as disregarding interest.  i think they are interested in making a profit and were probably the first semen distributor that saw they had the potential to get ahead of the curve and sell PHAF/THF semen to those that were interested as well as carrier semen to those who wish to use it.  by a test on all their bulls they sell semen on, everyone can make a better informed decsion on how they would like to pursue their objectives.

by supporting phac bulls they represent there interests, not particarlly mine. i have no problem with there marketing phac semen. i appreciate there efforts and up front postings of phac bulls in there past ads. i think that is where they started getting ahead of the curve to begin with. i hope all distributors and sales follow suit. i also hope that amaa recrutes more semen distributors to follow seks path as well. or maybe more distributors follows amaa's new direction in maine futures. my personal interest is propogating healty calves that i can strenghten my new small herd. dead calves whether from pha, sub zero weather, lack of professional help avaliability, ect are things i must concetrate on. any help/info i can use/gather/ or get i will use to lessen the odds of my monetary interests. i appreciate seks advertising the pha status of there semen. i understand there interest in making profit. i appreciate amaa's current direction. i like maine cattle. i hope to someday market maine as well as chi and simmi mix in the future.that day seems a bit closer with this joint venture the amaa has decided to take. i hope no one has dead calves or cows, or takes a big monetary hit by  this or any other genitic disorder or weather or birthing complications. i think this is a hugh step for amaa, i appluade  (clapping) there current direction. i appluade  (clapping)  seks  involvement with amaa. i applaude dr coover, and all who have contributed to research, fact finding, fact sharing, and teaching, all in which will benifit this breed in the long haul. (clapping)  jbarl

 

[DLD]

It's all good JbarL.

Knabe, apparentley IW is available at $50. At this point, I don't know which, if any, semen distributors will be handling it. I haven't asked SEK if they are/will be.

I sell semen locally, myself. When a client asks about, or orders semen on a known carrier, I try to gently remind them that he is, but if they still want it, I'll get it for 'em. I do try to make sure that they all know what PHA and TH are, and how it's transmitted. Some appreciate this, some don't, but the ones that don't usually understand after I explain to them I feel that I need to do this so that those who are using carriers won't be caught by surprise, or somehow feel that I was responsible for selling it to them in the first place...

 

[CAB]

According to the way the ad in the SC read, one of the owners had semen to sell @ $50.00. To call them directly as the supply was @ their farm.

 

[Telos]

If Meyer's was in fact cloned, then who owns the resulting clone/clones. Would not the owner/owners of Meyer 734 himself have some kind of rights to these clones?

If I owned a great breading bull that was moving tons of semen and making me lots of money... should just anyone have the rights to clone him?

 

[knabe]

Telos, that is the BEST question i have ever heard regarding cloning.  my initial reaction is that semen purchase contracts should state that the semen can't be used for cloning if possible, and that cloning rights are retained upon transfer, which they are now, but i haven't seen one restriction potential from semen.

 

[jason]

It sounds like it was probably a misunderstanding.  I have never dealt with them, but it sounds like they are pretty on the ball.

I was under the impression you could gather all the genetic material from semen, but I guess you do need tissue?

 

[Show Heifer]

First off, semen CAN NOT be used in cloning. It takes a complete DNA sequence for a clone, semen only contains part DNA. Make sense?
Now, if your at a show, and see an awsome animal, you could IN THEORY and if you were a slimy, nasty, unethical butt, could pull tail hair and get DNA and THAT could be used in cloning. But...you'd better be careful, cloning is a very specialized procedure, and many questions are ask for the procedure....
I personally am not going to use clones....just like I have decided not to use carriers.
Andy by the way, I switched buying all my semen through SEK.....if they are willing to step up to the plate and test out of their own pocket so they can represent it as honestly as they can, then they deserve my business and money!!!

 

[afhm]

Just what I've been waiting for, I wish it was $20 like when he first came out but 50 is better than the 200+ its been.  I can't wait to use him again.

 

[JbarL]

First off, semen CAN NOT be used in cloning. It takes a complete DNA sequence for a clone, semen only contains part DNA. Make sense?
Now, if your at a show, and see an awsome animal, you could IN THEORY and if you were a slimy, nasty, unethical butt, could pull tail hair and get DNA and THAT could be used in cloning. But...you'd better be careful, cloning is a very specialized procedure, and many questions are ask for the procedure....
I personally am not going to use clones....just like I have decided not to use carriers.
Andy by the way, I switched buying all my semen through SEK.....if they are willing to step up to the plate and test out of their own pocket so they can represent it as honestly as they can, then they deserve my business and money!!!

can you clone from hoof trimmings?  )) jbarl

 

[jason]

What does a clone cost?  I seem remember $20k???

 

[OH Breeder]

What does a clone cost?  I seem remember $20k???

What actually cost the most is the establishment of the cell line. Once that is done they say it is cheaper the more you clone. Clones have a shorter gestation period and require more care than an average normal baby. I think to get things rolling its around 10k then from that point if I remember right it is another 15k. There is a place in California that offers cloning of pets for minimal charges under 5k. I will have to see if I can find the links again.

 

[JbarL]

CAB, dl addressed the research on SC and fertility, there is lots of it, mostly agreeing with it.  all i am saying, is that in the animal kingdom in general, if there is no selective pressure on smaller sc with higher counts/motility, you won't find it.  across species, there are definately differences, ie the classics taught in animal science, beef, sheep, swine.  surface area of the sperm production area makes sense to produce more sperm, and the easiest way to get more if it is volume, ie circumference.  this has nothing to do with the turnover of sperm produced, which to this point hasn't been selected for as there is no tool to do it.

free market means the price drops because less people are buying it, ie getting smarter.  my bro the accountant has shown me some very interesting regressions on pricing and when to change price based on volume.  he calls it life cycle i think.  i'm sure the life cycle on these bulls is a closely guarded secret.

i would also like to comment on the land grant university "conspiracy".  in science, you can never prove anything, you can only fail to disprove.  so when you set up an experiment, you have a hypothesis and test disprove it.  then you throw more stones at it trying to disprove it with different ways to measure things as well as just repeating the test.  some tests, for my taxpayer dollar have been repeated too many times.

lastly, you are right dl on the age for sc.  i haven't ever seen any data on a regression on sc vs frame score or age measured at say one month intervals along with measurements of sperm count/motility.  could be out there, i just haven't found it.

my bro the paint salesman calls it  ....  supply and demand ...  as the demand decreases the supply increases and the price falls accordingly      the same applys in the positive aspect as well ..... ie  meyer734 @ 500/straw a while back now @ 650/straw...demand is high..supply is slowing...and playing close to the vest 
will it hit 1k/straw before gasoline hits 4.00/gal    ??  jbarl

 

[knabe]

gas is already $5.00 gal in big sur Ca.  bin laden's goal for oil is $140 a barrel, yet democrats want to tax oil companies, won't allow drilling in the gulf of mexico, anwar, off the coast of Ca, anywhere.  we will use the same no matter what, it's the supply that is artificially depressed by communists who don't understand supply and demand, only power.  now china is dumping the dollar.  perhaps that 140 will be sooner than he thought.  funny how he has a better handle on economics than either bush or the democrats.

 

[garybob]

Guys, guys, guys, What alarms me most about this is the potential damage to the Cow-calf industry, once this last-minute hail-Mary is over.
Scenario: If only 25% of the carrier heifers avoid the feedlot,and, at some point, are mated to "Great" Great-great-great grandsons of any of today's known carriers................................WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!

Kill 'em All & Let Ronald(McDonald) sort 'em out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"You can't polish a turd" Eric Williams, Alpena, Arkansas, June, 1989.

 

[afhm]

Meyer has already sold for as much as $950/straw at auction.

 

[frostback]

Guys, guys, guys, What alarms me most about this is the potential damage to the Cow-calf industry, once this last-minute hail-Mary is over.
Scenario: If only 25% of the carrier heifers avoid the feedlot,and, at some point, are mated to "Great" Great-great-great grandsons of any of today's known carriers................................WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!

Kill 'em All & Let Ronald(McDonald) sort 'em out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First all there is no need to yell. Second are you going to pay the $3000.00  to $5000.00 to replace my carrier females? Ronald doesn't pay that much.

 

[knabe]

renegade, i think he's saying when their utility is over, they will be at mickey dee's as will the PHAF ones.  that said, when the commercial guy finds out where this came from, he's gonna tend to not want to try maine's.  that total income loss will be more than the 3-5000 carrier female market.  that's why it's so important what the amaa and sek are doing with the commercial operator in mind so they don't have to be exposed to the carrier genetics, but can still benefit from the phaf one's from carrier lines, if they prove to be useful.

 

[DL]

Ronald isn't the only one who wouldn't pay $3000 to $5000 for PHAC females (clapping) (clapping) (welcome) (where all opinions are in theory welcome) : :'( ))

 

[frostback]

(welcome) (where all opinions are in theory welcome) : :'( ))
[/quote]
ONLY WHEN THEY AGREE WITH YOU