Jakes Proud Jazz ? Thoughts

[cattlejunky5]

what are your thoughts on Jakes Proud Jazz?

 

[twistedhshowstock]

I gues it would help to know exactly what you are wanting to know.  But as I sire he is about as sure fire calving ease as they come, and it shows as he is the go to heifer bull for a lot of people.  Before this year looking at calves he has sired I would have said he wouldnt add a lot of power to one, but I have seen some super thick, powerful JPJ calves this year, although I have to admit I didnt see the cows they were out of.  One thing I will say about him is every calf I see out of him is very stylish, deep, and soggy.  I dont have experience raising a lot of them, so dont know how heifers out of him milk, but gonna assume they do ok.  Wish there was sexed semen available on him cause I got a few I would like to breed him to to make heifers.

 

[aandtcattle]

In my opinion JPJ has done a lot of things right as far as improving the breed where needed.  He consistently downsizes cattle for mature size which is definitely needed in many shorthorn herds in the u.s.  He usually decreases birthweights, not sure if he is bulletproof but very few bulls are.  He improves fleshing ability.  Probably not enough performance in the bull and structural correctness can be an issue.  The biggest thing for me is where are all of the daughters??  For crying out loud, the bull is what 9? 10?  We should be seeing a lot more aged daughters than we are.  I think there are and will be several sons available that are a lot more complete.

 

[cattlejunky5]

This is true, the fact that he is an older bull and you dont see very many daughters in production. However i sure have seen plenty of bulls out of him.

 

[simmyman67]

Agreed, for as much use as he has had we should be seeing a lot more proven females.

 

[OH Breeder]

Jazz has 1254 females registered in the ASA. Lots of Clubby folks used him as a calving ease solution as well. He really wasn't marketed and made public an til 2006-07. He had the top registrations for any Shorthorn bull last year.
How long does it take a female to become proven?- 3-4 years?

 

[aandtcattle]

Jazz has 1254 females registered in the ASA. Lots of Clubby folks used him as a calving ease solution as well. He really wasn't marketed and made public an til 2006-07. He had the top registrations for any Shorthorn bull last year.
How long does it take a female to become proven?- 3-4 years?

I realize he has been a high use sire, and I also realize he has well over 1000 daughters registered.  These facts make it even scarier for me.  Why havent we heard more from the Jazz daughters?  Maybe it will come with time as he didnt really hit the scene until 06-07 but it just looks a little fishy to me. 

 

[cattlejunky5]

I don't really want this to get talking about the credibility of the bull i just really want to know what your experiences are with him and if you have any pictures of calves.

 

[SSIMMENTALS]

We've only used him once, but he gave us a 65 lb bull calf off a first time heifer. She had the calf quickly and he hasn't looked back yet. Fuzzy little calf who looks like he'll make a good steer. I wouldn't hesitate to useJPJ again pretty quickly.

 

[twistedhshowstock]

I agree with the female thing to a point...I am not a Shorthorn breeder so not sure how popular he is in the Shorthorn world, but I know he has seen a lot of heavy use in the Clubby world, so there is a big chance that there are a lot of unregistered females out there out of him that are getting used and we just dont here about them.  Also with his popularity among first calf heifers, a lot of people may not be retaining those calves, there are a lot of breeders out there that dont retain calves or put much thought into breeding on first calf heifers other than calving ease, they just try to get a live calf on the ground and plans all along are to let her raise the calf then ship it.  So yeah I hope we would see a lot more females out of him, but there may be other factors out there as to why we dont see more.

 

[shortdawg]

He consistently adds style, hair, muscle, and spring of rib. He will downsize larger females. We've had a lot of experience with him and have seen many calves out of him over the last 3-4 years. They look good early and stay that way for the most part. Jungles in SD has him on lease from Glover and they really had somme nice females out of him in their sale. I tried to buy one but not enough shekels  i would agree that many probably have females out of him that are not registered, i do have a very nice one here that is doing a great job as a momma cow.

 

[OH Breeder]

I don't really want this to get talking about the credibility of the bull i just really want to know what your experiences are with him and if you have any pictures of calves.

Not questioning his abilities here...I have a line bred son out of him. He has been a dependable calving ease solution for us. The calves have hair and usually are very sale-able  even out of average cows.
I will let you know how the calves are in the spring "12 out of a grandson.
I would think that with his availability really being public in 07 those calves would have been born 08 and they bred 09 would have calved 10. So I think he just needs some more time.

 

[shortdawg]

He consistently adds style, hair, muscle, and spring of rib. He will downsize larger females. We've had a lot of experience with him and have seen many calves out of him over the last 3-4 years. They look good early and stay that way for the most part. Jungles in SD has him on lease from Glover and they really had somme nice females out of him in their sale. I tried to buy one but not enough shekels  i would agree that many probably have females out of him that are not registered, i do have a very nice one here that is doing a great job as a momma cow.
[/quote

On the thought of his progeny - I have calves out of JPJ, a son of his I own, as well as the daughter I mentioned above- in the same pasture this year.

 

[kfacres]

I don't really want this to get talking about the credibility of the bull i just really want to know what your experiences are with him and if you have any pictures of calves.

Not questioning his abilities here...I have a line bred son out of him. He has been a dependable calving ease solution for us. The calves have hair and usually are very sale-able  even out of average cows.
I will let you know how the calves are in the spring "12 out of a grandson.
I would think that with his availability really being public in 07 those calves would have been born 08 and they bred 09 would have calved 10. So I think he just needs some more time.

so that makes his daughters, 2nd calf, working on 3rd calf heifers?  Correct?  how many years does it take to determine if one's worth keeping around or not? 

I'd say by 2nd calf they're either cutting it, or not.

Not to continue to bash the bull... as I finally broke down and bought semen on a son of his- even though I've hated JPJ for many years... I guess I thought I needed some fat little dumpy straight legged calves.

 

[OKshorthorn]

I don't really want this to get talking about the credibility of the bull i just really want to know what your experiences are with him and if you have any pictures of calves.

This video was in another thread awhile back, but this is a JPJ son that we had this fall. We really like what he has done for us, and will continue to use him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3K4sEmIEfo

 

[JTM]

In my opinion JPJ has done a lot of things right as far as improving the breed where needed.  He consistently downsizes cattle for mature size which is definitely needed in many shorthorn herds in the u.s.  He usually decreases birthweights, not sure if he is bulletproof but very few bulls are.  He improves fleshing ability.  Probably not enough performance in the bull and structural correctness can be an issue.  The biggest thing for me is where are all of the daughters??  For crying out loud, the bull is what 9? 10?  We should be seeing a lot more aged daughters than we are.  I think there are and will be several sons available that are a lot more complete.

I agree with A&T but I really don't know whether or not there are enough daughters out there. I've heard from pretty good sources that the bull was being used by Ohlde's for a number of years and they wanted to make sure the daughters were good before trying to promote the bull. I have had reallly good results with JPJ on show heifers. I agree that he is not bulletproof with calving ease or structure but when you compare him to other bulls he is better than most of the popular show genetics. Like A&T said, he is "improving the breed where needed". Moderating frames, easy fleshing, and lower birthweights. I had two first calf heifers this year and they both calved unassisted to an Angus bull. Both milked pretty decent with good looking udders. I would say use him with confidence on heifers but if your breeding show genetics you will still want to watch them closely. Calves can have pretty good bone when born.

 

[vc]

How long did it take before WMW cows became popular?  I think you hear pretty quickly when a bulls cows do not work out, then when they do, it seems to take time. You have a calving ease bull's heifers bred to a calving ease bull the first breeding, how much can you really exspect from that offspring? I think it takes the third and fourth set of calves for people to start finding the right mix, then you start hearing how good the cows are.

 

[r.n.reed]

One of the things most impressive to me is the longevity of Jazz himself and his maternal line.How many bulls are still running with a cow herd at 10?Jazzy, his dam is pushing 12 and kicked out 8 embryo's a couple weeks ago.His granddam the Cumberland cow is 16 or 17 and still going strong.With the high costs today of developing a replacement this is what I would call an economically relevant trait.

 

[twistedhshowstock]

I wouldnt call any bull out there bulletproof for anything, but a lot of times people tend to forget that the cow gives the calf 50% of the DNA.  I dont care if you have a bull that is consistantly throwing 40 lbs calves, if you breed him to a heifer whose bloodlines are packed with 130lb calves on both sides(which a lot of the clubbies are) then you have a big risk for trouble regardless.  Also I think when we talk about calving ease we put way to much emphasis on birthweight when talking about calving ease, people will argue, but most 1st calf heifers if they are good cattle that have grown and developed well should be able to drop an 80-90 lb calf with little to no assistance.  Back in highschool a neighbor had a 1st calf angus heifer drop a 110 lb bull calf with absolutely no assistance.  Its not so much size that is the issue here, sure there is a point where they are just to big, but its shape that is the true problem.  These clubby cattle tend to throw squarer, bigger shouldered calves, then you add that to the fact that we have a lot of cows and heifers runnin around out there these days with pelvic areas that are way to small, and its not a matter of the weight of the calf that is the issue, its the shape, the cows cant get those big shoulders past their pelvis.
So no I dont think JPJ is bulletproof, because you have to consider the cow he is bred to as well.  But I will say I have never seen any calves of his have to be pulled, I am sure someone has had to, but its aint very often and I would bet if you looked at the cows those calves were out of a lot of the calving difficulty came from the cow.  I have also seen some of those short, pudgy,straight legged calves out of him as well, but every one of them was out of a cow that had those issues to a point that I didnt even think they should be in the breeding program.  When bred to just good, solid cattle I think JPJ has done the job, and I think thats the kind of cattle you have to use to see how good a bull is.  You cant say a bull is awesome because his calves are all good when they are only out of the best cows around.  And in my opinion you cant say a bull is bad when he is only gettin bred to the low end of the herd.  To truly test a bull, go put him on just a good, complete, solid cow that is nothing special and see how his calves come.

 

[linnettejane]

anybody that knows me, knows i love him...he works on my cows...i like the results i get...so i use him...to each his own...

i have 3 direct daughters and will have 5 granddaughters by the end of the year...all are yearlings or younger...so ill let you know how it goes in a year or two...