Malpractice? Advice- Calving loss. .....nightmare

[OH Breeder]

So, I sit here today with our second calving loss of season. Sunday night we had a heifer calf aspirate on the way out and drown. Last night I induced a cow which I thought was bull bred. She showed NO signs of even want to calve. She was AI bred for 4-10 but we thought she passed because her udder did not develop and she did not dilate behind. So with in 2-4 hours of inducing she was in full labor. 11P her water broke. I gave her an hour but something didn't seem right. I went in and it was the calf from the AI date. Now over due 16 days and clubby bred out of Direct Hit. The calf was all of 150 had trouble with the scales this morning. So I started calling vets BECAUSE the head was folded back along its side and it turned slightly. Didn't matter there was not coming out. I started calling vets. I called 5 vets NO ONE CALL. I had my regular vets cell phone and I called him. it was 1am and I figured it was now about saving cow but the calf was still a live. My vet said we'll section when I get there. We get her in the chute and prepped. He shows up and opens his kit. Gives her a local and then turns to me and says, I forgot suture. I have not suture. Mind you the calf is still vigorously kicking and alive. He said I will have to drive to my office to get suture. I SAID R U SERIOUS? Yes, it was almost 2 hours round trip to get suture. WE sectioned but the calf died 15 minutes before he pulled in. Now that calf stayed alive from 11pm til 515am before it died in the uterus. The vets only comment was a well I should have checked my kit we already did two surgeries. My assistant was suppose to refill it. HOW CAN YOU SHOW UP FOR SURGERY WITH NO SUTURE? I could not speak to him while we were doing the procedure and afterwards. I was so so angry. His only comment was well it was just too long. I could not acknowledge his comment or him. I walked out of the barn and waited for him to leave. I am so angry. I worked so hard to keep the calf alive to section and NO SUTURE? !!!! He is one of the most expensive vets in the area. He charges 165 just to come to an emergency whether he does anything or not. What should I do? I know I will get a bill and he charges mileage. How would you handle this one? I take the blame for not being more aware and should have checked her after passing her due date. That is my fault. But the cow and my family kept that calf alive did not rupture the umbilical cord so we could section. Any thoughts? Maybe just venting more than anything.

 

[OH Breeder]

I am not trying to be whiney or not assume an responsibility. But man come on...we kept that calf alive for 7 hours.

 

[justme]

Oh boy...vets making mistakes really burn my butt.  Our vet was doing a simple dehorning on an awesome bull calf and the calf went down, he nor his assistant untied him and he snapped his neck.  All I got was dang and a huge bill and a dead calf.  You are a nurse by trade, you know what he did was wrong, I'd honeslty get some legal advice.  They have insurance to cover this stuff go question him

 

[Doc]

Shawn, I sure hate to hear this for you. He should assume some responsibility in my opinion. If I was him I would be embarassed to send you a bill. I've got a feeling he won't be embarassed, though. I think you should at least express your displeasure to him. I can also, see him telling you to take your business elsewhere no matter how diplomatically you explain this to him.

 

[trevorgreycattleco]

I would not pay the bill nor would I ever call him again. The fact he didnt check his supplies before he came is his fault not yours.  Sorry to hear that.  I feel your pain.

 

[OH Breeder]

I am a nurse (many years of OR and ER)and my two sisters are nurses and my other sister is respiratory therapist. one sister is an OB nurse.We were all there. He NEVER gets the kind of help like he does when he goes anywhere else. He says that everytime.  We had the cow in a room we use for cooler in summer, heated with shoplights all around. Set up a table for him and had both betadine water and hot water. stack of towels ob lube YOU NAME IT. WE WERE READY. His typical c-section runs me $600. He is really good at getting them out and had the calf out in 15 minutes. JUst 30 minutes too late. I literally sat down on the ground in complete exhaustion beside the dead calf and looked at him in disbelief. He was 15 minutes too late in getting him out. I know he will send a bill. I am not sure the cow is out of the woods yet. She was shocky by the time we were done. We were able to keep her up without going down for 8 hours. Folks I do sincerely appreciate you posting and offering advice. I am just stunned. This was one of the best bull calves we had ever raised out of this cow. Just me- this was my Harding's Glitter cow. I am just having hard time swallowing today.

 

[Telos]

Shawn- So sorry about this. It is just a bad deal and the vet should assume some responsibility for crying out loud.

 

[Till-Hill]

Oh wow. @ $165 a trip charge that's crazy but killing your calf!!!!!!!!! If it was my vet he had better not charge me and be putting at least a $500 credit on my bill. And if you lose the cow to I'd ask for more! Sorry for having that happen to you.

 

[MCC]

I feel your pain. A few years back our regular vet was out of town. Had a heifer calving and there was no way to pull it and get it out alive. We hauled her to the new vet in town. He started doing the c - section and the phone rang. It was his wife who was in the hospital. She had their son the day before. I don't know how long he was on the phone but it seemed like forever to say ' I love you". The calf came out alive but died before he got the cow sewed up. Don't know if the delay cost me a calf or not. Naturally not having used him before he presented me with a bill before I got the cow loaded. I had to swallow hard and bite my tongue and reach for my checkbook. Decided not to tell him off in case I ever had another emergency.  Few years later had to call him again and thank heavens everything worked out. We now have 4 vet clinics here. Our old vet won't do c-sections anymore, one is a kid who doesn't have any facilities, one has his home phone number unlisted and won't give out his cell number, and the one mentioned above who you can get ahold of round the clock. Kinda glad I didn't tell him off now. $600 for a c-section sounds a little high to me though.

 

[frostback]

If he did not come at all you would have for sure had a dead cow with the calf. They dont have to come in the middle of the night. Now I feel for you and I know you are venting and I have been there too, but just remember they do not have to come when we call. Also I sure would have made sure I had all the stuff before I drove all that way if I were a vet.

 

[flacowman]

I would speak to him first.  If he cooperates and gives you a freebie then all should be well, if not then you may have some leverage.  if he is a good vet then I'm sure you'll want to keep on amicable terms with him so I would try to work with him before trying any legal action

 

[JWW]

everyone needs to just take a step back for a minute and just breathe... the vet did not kill the calf, it was probably lack of oxygen that killed the calf. plus the vet did not have to pick up the phone when someone called, the vet did not have to come out and help, the vet could have waited to 8 am to come out, should the vet have checked the supply kit - probably, should had the other vet replaced the suture since it was empty - probably.... so sh** happens, if raising cattle was easy everyone would do it, everyone knows the gamble when breeding cattle even if it is supposed to be easy calving you can still get trailwrecks.  if the event turned out differently then everyone would praise the efforts of the vet -- kinda like the idea that a person's favorite judge is the one that judged the show that they won... give the vet a break, pay the bill, because you'll probably need a vet again sometime in your life. too bad things didn't turn out but sometimes it happens

here is an intersting article from a vet's point of view:  http://www.yumasun.com/opinion/yuma-69331-care-ford.html


JWW

 

[OH Breeder]

If he did not come at all you would have for sure had a dead cow with the calf. They dont have to come in the middle of the night. Now I feel for you and I know you are venting and I have been there too, but just remember they do not have to come when we call. Also I sure would have made sure I had all the stuff before I drove all that way if I were a vet.

See, I agree with you and its not as if I am not sympathetic to his "on-call" duties. BUT, he charges more than any vet in the state. His sections will average $600 plus mileage but he is GOOD. In the hopsitla I can't imagine telling an emergent C-section we have to drive to the neighboring hospital to get SUTURE??? I couldn't talk to him partiall because of what you said. I do appreciate he came. But I probabaly should have drove to the university ER. I see both sides as someone who worked on call for years in the hosptial setting. I did say my prayers this morning when we had a live cow. I always try to look for a positive. But if you have ever held your arm inside a cow for 8 hours while they are contracting trying to push a calf out it sucks. Both of my arms are bruised from my elbow up the contractions were so hard. if the placenta had not seperated he woudl have been alive when we pulled him out. We kept the umbilical cord intact for 8 hours. But I hear you believe me.

 

[flacowman]

If you lost the calf and knew it then why didn't you use the wire saw and piece him out rather than slit her open?    Not a drop of criticism in this just curiosity

 

[OH Breeder]

If you lost the calf and knew it then why didn't you use the wire saw and piece him out rather than slit her open?    Not a drop of criticism in this just curiosity

1- We couldn't get anything out vaginally except for front feet. There was not room left in the uterus.
2- The calf was alive 15 minutes before he got there. We let go and had to move her back in the chute. When we started the calf potentially could have been alive.
3- I had kept the calf alive by holding it in place. It was not dead.
4- I assume partial responsibility because she was OVERDUE. Believe me I am beating myself up about that terriblely.

 

[aj]

If I had to get out of bed at 1 in the morning to pull a 150# calf it would cost 1,000$. Using genetics to get a 150# calf.....to me is stupidity and you should get 30 days in the hole. A large animal vet is poorly compensated for any way. Why not opererate on kittie cats for 500 $ rather then go out a pull a retard 150# calf in the middle of the night for a damn club calf goofball. I don't know of any vets that come out to the farm much any more. The Oakley vet has someone on call at all times. I have hauled stuff there at night. They have evrything there they need. Its 60 miles. Christ I can't believe YOUR attitude! I guess thats what makes the world go round though. Christ.

 

[OH Breeder]

everyone needs to just take a step back for a minute and just breathe... the vet did not kill the calf, it was probably lack of oxygen that killed the calf. plus the vet did not have to pick up the phone when someone called, the vet did not have to come out and help, the vet could have waited to 8 am to come out, should the vet have checked the supply kit - probably, should had the other vet replaced the suture since it was empty - probably.... so sh** happens, if raising cattle was easy everyone would do it, everyone knows the gamble when breeding cattle even if it is supposed to be easy calving you can still get trailwrecks.  if the event turned out differently then everyone would praise the efforts of the vet -- kinda like the idea that a person's favorite judge is the one that judged the show that they won... give the vet a break, pay the bill, because you'll probably need a vet again sometime in your life. too bad things didn't turn out but sometimes it happens

here is an intersting article from a vet's point of view:  http://www.yumasun.com/opinion/yuma-69331-care-ford.html


JWW

JWWW

I worked in health care and i CHOSE to work in that industry to help people. I do not have an issue with a vet NOT wanting to respond to middle of the night calls. BUT don't be on call.
I am frustrated with the fact that if I was going to do a surgery I would at the very minimal have SUTURE. I can't swallow that. The calf died because of the vet. The calf was alive and we kept it alive for almost 8 hours. But after a point you can't stop placental seperation. We literally held the calf in place to keep the umbilical cord intact. The calf was folded because it was out of room.- my fault. I am VERY thankful I have a live cow but she is kind of a mess today. She is up and moving thank the Lord. But she tore some and bleed quiet a bit. Like I said, I am more frustrated that he wasn't prepared. And if he didn't want to come do not ADVERTISE you have an EMERGENCY on call service. I would have drove to the University Large Animal ER. I do praise him because he can get one out in 15 minutes. But I will also get a bill for MILEAGE etc which was incurred due to his lack of organization. He had a room full of medical professionals and the last thing you ever do is go to a procedure with out checking your supplies NO MATTER WHAT.

 

[flacowman]

I think everyone is in agreement that the calf was too big, the problem is that if the vet had been prepared as he was payed to be then there would be a nice calf in the pasture right now rather than buried in the back 40 because the man didn't have one of his very most basic tools, and something that he had to know he would need since he was called for a c section.  It is not the vet's fault that it was 1 am or that the calf needed a c section to be born but if he had been prepared it would be just another c section story

 

[OH Breeder]

If I had to get out of bed at 1 in the morning to pull a 150# calf it would cost 1,000$. Using genetics to get a 150# calf.....to me is stupidity and you should get 30 days in the hole. A large animal vet is poorly compensated for any way. Why not opererate on kittie cats for 500 $ rather then go out a pull a retard 150# calf in the middle of the night for a damn club calf goofball. I don't know of any vets that come out to the farm much any more. The Oakley vet has someone on call at all times. I have hauled stuff there at night. They have evrything there they need. Its 60 miles. Christ I can't believe YOUR attitude! I guess thats what makes the world go round though. Christ.

First AJ YOU DON"T KNOW ME. YOU DON"T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE BREEDING  OR MY PROGRAM. YOU DON"T HAVE ANY RIGHT TO CRITICIZE MY OPERATION. I DID NOT BREED FOR 150# calf. its a little thing called GENETICS and 18 days over due. There are alot of things I could say to you but as my mother has always said, you show your ignorance by opening your mouth. Thanks for proving my point. I will leave it at that because YOU are not worth my time NOR my energy. IF YOU would read all my post. MY ATTITDUE is not that he had to come at middle of the night. its the LACK Of preparation.

 

[aj]

People who routinely put cows through this kind of abuse should not be allowed to own cattle. Its just a video game to you isn't? To me this is worse than starving cattle.