Masculinity in Shorthorns

[aj]

Seems like Shorthorn bulls I see in all the magazines and in life lack masculinity. Are all breeds going this direction? In the Shorties I see cattle with the long faces.....long nose......big ears. Is it from the milking Shorthorn.....or the Irish....or the maine....really......has there ever been a Shorthorn bull with the masculinity that I see in some Red Angus.

 

[LLBUX]

The problem with masculine bulls of all breeds is that they are deemed to be too course, early maturing, hard calving, tight flanked, or simply don't take pretty enough pictures.

Lots of calf pictures and very few pictures of mature bulls.

 

[justintime]

When I read this, I had a chuckle because just a few days ago, a Red Angus breeder told me that it is hard to find a Red Angus bull that has enough masculinity anymore. I am not disagreeing with you aj, but I totally agree with you. I think we are seeing masculinity slowly disappear from many breeds, and in particular in the Shorthorn breed. There still are some masculine bulls out there, but as LLBUX stated, many people have forgot what a masculine bull is supposed to look like. Many will avoid a masculine bull because they think he will be hard calving. One the opposite side, I think many people have forgot what femininity should look like and confuse femininity with fraility. I have attached a picture of a couple bulls that I have always thought had good masculinity traits. I also firmly believe that your best females will come from masculine sires. These bulls pictured are Saskvalley Navajo 153M and Alta Cedar Ultimate 130K.

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

I agree, so many of the new bulls out there just look like heifers.  You shouldn't have to lift up a tail to tell if it is a bull.  Do you think that the push to produce the next great show heifer has caused this by only promoting the full brothers to those show females?  Doubt it helps much. 

 

[GoWyo]

So you are saying the bulls have become metrosexuals from all of the cow makeup and photos?

 

[Mill Iron A]

So you are saying the bulls have become metrosexuals from all of the cow makeup and photos?

Thats just funny....speaking of red angus, I know of a large bull buyer that swore to never buy bulls from a large red angus breeder when a particular bull sold and topped the sale, he just left and said "that bull should have been steered, he looks like a heifer!" I do think masculinity is just one of the many basic components to stockmanship that we have lost. Everyone wants to blame pb breeders for it and yes they do have a part of the blame, but largely its anyone who has promoted epds and numbers, and hype breedings.  Now all commercial bull buyers want a son out of one of the bulls in the a.i. catalogs. The a.i. catalogs buy off of hype and epds.... you can see the downward spiral.  I'm not against epds either, i think they are paramount to progress in the industry. I'm just saying we have put so much focus on it that we are passing up the most important basics that you can't read on paper. We need balance in the industry and we need to look at the cattle visually and on paper.

 

[oakview]

Very few advertised bulls of any breed show the masculinity you describe.  There's a Char. bull on the flashing ads to the side of this website that shows nearly no neck.  Most of the club calf bulls advertised show little "masculinity."  In my opinion, there has been so much selection pressure from the show ring side on getting those pencil necked, long fronted, clean throated females, the heavier necked bulls have all but disappeared.  It can be hard to get those freaky fronted females from a bull that some say resembles a buffalo.  I remember two ET full brothers Alden Farms showed years ago, Powerplay and Powerpack.  Both were outstanding show bulls.  However, we thought Powerpack had almost no crest and nearly resembled a fat steer or fat heifer due to what we perceived as a lack of masculinity.  I remember both to be reasonably successful sires.  I think any lack of so-called masculinity is the result of selection pressure more than anything else and is widespread in nearly all breeds. 

 

[RyanChandler]

Simple.  Masculine bulls create feminine females.  Feminine bulls create androgynous females.  4Her and FFA judges with zero beef production experience are judging shows and they 'prefer the look' of Androgynous females. Multipliers breed what judges want.  Cycle continues.

Just like the quote in my signature - almost every 'show bull' you see now will be wedge shaped.  The problem is their phenotype tapers to the front (like a female) as opposed to the wedge tapering to the rear. 

 

[OKshorthorn]

To me, I think it has a lot to do with the shoulder. It seems people would rather have a bull, or use a bull, that is extremely smooth shouldered and "pretty" up front. I don't think you can get the skeletal width throughout, especially through the hip, without having a bull that has some shoulder in him.

I have a bull calf right now that is 6 months old. He has not had any creep feed to this point and is being weaned Saturday. He is one of the widest made bull calves I've seen in awhile (thanks to his momma more so than his dad) but he is a little coarse shouldered, which I don't mind, but in hearing opinions from some that have seen him, that is a common theme. If you want a bull that looks like a heifer up front dont be surprised when what you want to believe is muscle in pictures, is nothing but hair in the back.

 

[caledon101]

I would assume that if a herd is strictly culled on all the important traits with fertility at the very top on that list, then eventually these animals would show US want THEY are supposed to look like....and not the other way around.
If fertility and feminine appearance actually go hand in hand then it was a miracle that some of the purebred and commercial females being used way back decades ago ever got pregnant.

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

So you are saying the bulls have become metrosexuals from all of the cow makeup and photos?

yup just like half of the male race.  If we keep it up they wont want to fight to protect their cows and will let just any ol bull come over and take them. <cowboy>

 

[justintime]

Here in North America, most bulls have their heads shaved before going to a show or sale.. regardless of age. In Britain, they don't want the bulls head shaved as they feel that a good bull has to have curly hair on his head as that is a sign of masculinity. When I was young, my dad would never consider buying a herd bull if he did not have adequate curl to the hair on his head. He still believes this, and oftentime says that some of the herd bulls I have don't have enough curl to the hair on their foreheads. I really think I would have to look for awhile to find a bull with enough curl to suite him today.  Maybe it is an old wive's tale, I am not sure but there are many things that have been completely forgotten about today, that were extremely important to cattle breeders in the past. My grandfather would never buy a herd bull if he could not put his hand around his tail at the twist of the animal. He said you should just be able to get your fingers to touch around the tail of a 2 year old bull in order for him to be a good breeding bull. If he could easily touch his fingers, he would not buy him no matter how good he looked. Today there are not many bulls sold as 2 year olds but I often wonder if there was any merit to this or just more folklure from the past.

I do believe we have to understand what masculinity looks like. For example, when you breed animals to improve muscling, you add muscle over the entire body not just in any one location. This means there is going to be more shoulder on an animal with more muscling. The shoulder is held in position by two large muscles .. one on each side. There is no shoulder joint. What is the most important factor in determining calving ease in a masculine bull is the angle of the shoulder. By this, it means that there has to be adequate slope from the elbow to the top of the shoulder blade. If this is too straight, there will be more calving problems. Animals with posty hind legs will also be too straight in their shoulder. Is it any wonder why many clubby bulls are harder calving? Mother Nature has been pretty good in designing these critters to function properly, but humans have screwed around trying to make these animals more pleasant to the eye. I would far rather have an animal with too much set to his hind legs than one with straight legs. I have never seen a bull with too much set in his wheels have to be shipped to market because he could not get around to breed the cows. I have seen countless numbers of posty legged bulls have their lives ended at young ages.
If you want to get some good lessons in structure and function, you only have to look at animals in nature. There are plenty of good lessons to be learned.

 

[coyote]

I haven't paid too much attention but I don't think there are many Angus bulls with curly hair on their head.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Here in Brazil breeds as Angus and Hereford are shaving the animals now. Angus only keep hair on ears, if owner will wish. Personally is a way to fool some potential customers that are looking for early shed hair animals.

When I subscribed the US magazine saw lots of young animals, the pics are form younger due lack masculinity or lack masculinity today is due early bull selection, not giving time to the male show your bull character?

Here and in Argentina and Uruguay we can see some bulls with bull face, not know for how long time!

 

[r.n.reed]

Here are some curls for you guys ;D

 

[coyote]

Here is a bull that had a curly head.

 

[comercialfarmer]

I haven't paid too much attention but I don't think there are many Angus bulls with curly hair on their head.

There are several being sold that look more like a steer than a bull, and it seems to correlate with chasing numbers. 

I was helping a family member pick out a couple new angus bulls in some upcoming sales.  I looked at a videos of somewhere over 250 bulls, and just on masculinity alone, I culled probably 80% or more. 

I think it is pretty bad in the shorthorn world as well and likely worse.  But there are plenty of masculine bulls to choose from if you look.

Other than some of the ones listed already, from seeing calves on here,  I've been impressed with Ramrod and Buster.  And I like the looks of that calf in Okotoks avitar. 

I just saw that he has Northern Legend up the line, and that is another bull that seems to pass it on. And Leroy- he has testosterone written all over him. 

 

[r.n.reed]

How is your bull bred Coyote,He has those vintage Shorthorn ears.

 

[aj]

Good points JIT. Also could it be a mature size deal. I hate the WDA measurement. I think cattle should mature early.....grow fast....and then QUIT growing at a year of age. That would reduce cow size. I've seen some Red Angus cattle......and it seems like the little bull calves get a cresty neck early and start bulling around big cows at an early age....... I personally think it could be that every body is chasing the big YW numbers.

 

[Mill Iron A]

Once again here is an example of epds vs visual. Maturity factors can be seen in cannon bone length, rib shape, sexual maturity, etc. You can have high yw bulls that are smaller framed and earlier maturing and you can have giants with the same yw epd. the only way to tell is to go look at them.