OK Planeteers.....Time 2 USE Your Brain AGAIN.........

[jbh]

Show Heifer said - "Many are missing the point,(I think). I am hoping brad was looking for ideas from the ENTIRE industry, not just your little protected show world. He is not looking for another cattle show idea. He is looking for a PR (public relations) idea. You know, a "kiss the butt of the people who are trying to control us" idea."

ACTUALLY....I was looking for BOTH.

Also, I just wanted to let you know that I may go M.I.A. for a while, because I'm staying at the calving barn of a night (NO INTERNET (argue)), so PLEASE don't think I'm IGNORING ANYONE.

I've found that WHATEVER NEW PROJECT you start in life, IT NEVER ends up like you assumed it would when it started, BUT, as long as you KEPT TRYING, something better than you ever hoped would generally come of it.  In my OWN HEAD I'm continually thinking 3-5 years down the road with the projects that I start.......it will be INTERESTING to see if ANYTHING comes out of this SUBJECT......it's had a GREAT RUN!

Two of the BEST EXAMPLES of what I was thinking when I started this post would be......

1) SNOWBOARDING.......these were just PUNKS taking up VALUABLE SPACE on the much more SOPHISTICATED SKIERS slopes..... causing friction between the two groups.  This little board, that these talented kids were on.....got mastered into an OLYMPIC SPORT....and it was way OUTSIDE the BOX of the SKIing community.....a community that had BOTH rich people and common people enjoying it.  MUCH LIKE SHOWING CATTLE.

2) BOXING......vs. ULTIMATE FIGHTING.....same scenario...

I'm just saying......we need to KEEP OUR traditional WAYS of showing cattle.....BUT, we need to figure out a way to do what the two Industries above done ALSO.....for our OWN GOOD!  

When we refine THIS (whatever it is)......then we can shed an ADDITIONAL light, hopefully to millions, BUT, just as someone said......why DON'T we let the KIDS in on this TOO, and see what they come up with......I'm betting they're ALOT MORE CAPABLE than WE ARE! (clapping)  <party> <rock>

 

[Throttle]

I saved this back in January

http://photos.denverpost.com/photoprojects/specialprojects/stockshowfamily/

I think it does a better job than most things that are available in the mainstream media of portraying what show stock is all about. These are the kind of stories that I think the average person could get into. You see how much it means to the family, how much effort they put into, and then you want to know how the show goes for them. I'm not sure what, if any of the ideas we're throwing around here might ever catch on, but if we are talking about getting non-ag people a better understanding of what we are all about and assuring them that we care for our animals, I think these human interest type stories have a good chance of catching the average person's attention, if you get them in the right place

Also, I can't decide where I would stand on the claiming thing, but what about the 2nd chance in Ring B without the 1-3 in each class? Increase the premium on Ring A, pay 1/4 of that amount to Ring B. Am I the only one who thinks this could work with the right tweaks?

 

[jbh]

Throttle said - "but what about the 2nd chance in Ring B without the 1-3 in each class? Increase the premium on Ring A, pay 1/4 of that amount to Ring B. Am I the only one who thinks this could work with the right tweaks?"


I'm IN on that one TOO.....I think it would work BETTER at the JACKPOTs than the big EXPOs....but that idea DEFINITELY has MERIT.  Should help in keeping the numbers up at these student run events also, taking some of that stress factor out of the equation for the people running the shows. 

 

[Dusty]

I would be a fan of a claiming show.  Not saying every show should be a claiming show, just like not every race is a claiming race.  I think a good idea would be a claiming show in fall the before the calves up north have to be checked in.  And then some other ones sprinkled out throughout the spring and summer jackpots.  It would be entirely voluntary.

And if a child has a calf they don't want claimed, don't enter the claiming show.  The problems that everyone cites about a claiming show are not the problems that I thought about at all.  To me the biggest problem would be a calf that looks like it is higher quality would be entered in the show, but would have an unseen problem that would not be noticed by your average 4H'er.  It happens all the time with horses and someone that doesn't know any better can get burned pretty quickly.  There has been however a lot of good ones bought out of claiming races either because they were in the wrong hands to start with or they were just late bloomers.  To me that would be the fun part of a claiming show.  Claim one and see if you can make him better than the last guy did. 

Anyways those are my thoughts.  It could be a show that would allow an exhibitor to have a chance to get into the prize money without spending a lot on a calf and if they do get claimed it give them some money in their pocket(how often does that happen) and a chance to take a shot at another calf..

 

[GoWyo]

Redwingfarm -- I presented the Consolidation Division idea as a means to level the field with a handicapping system.  Handicap systems are used in numerous sports including golf, team roping, team penning, and so on.  Open shows are just that.  If there is a way to handicap a show so that the $10K steers show against each other, but cannot show in the $1500 class, it seems that would really help to increase the involvement in the lower classes.  Certainly helped in the other sports to increase participation by making the competition fun again.  I don't want to be a whiner and we won't quit showing cattle.  However, my kid understands that there are other investments to make than paying $7500 for a steer that will cost $1000 to feed that will sell at county fair for a maximum of about $6000 even if it wins grand champ.  I think he understands that if he raises one that somebody wants to pay him $7500 to purchase, he is way ahead to bank the money and show a cheap one.

 

[keeton.ehrig]

What I am about to suggest might have been offered already and i just did not understand the way they presented it.  I have been at several shows where they basically have a beef bowl.  In this contest there is a quiz that would cover the entire industry not just one part.  I am a big fan of this, because the kids that do well here understand it, not just how to fit for show a calf.  Also this will give another set of kiddos a chance to excel in something.

To make it more accommodating to a certain part of the show (i.e. Breeding cattle, market cattle) you could have information that just pertains to that industry. 

 

[simtal]

is the correlation bewteen calf cost and eventual champion always true?

 

[GoWyo]

is the correlation bewteen calf cost and eventual champion always true?

Don't know - never tried it, but haven't won with a cheap one yet. ;D  Could be we just aren't all that good at the game yet.

 

[OH Breeder]

No one has shot a reality show following an exihibitor from the selection of said show animal to the final sale or birth. To me, it someone documented the start to finish work that it takes for these successful young folks to BUILD a winner it might make more of an impact. Hell we follow a bunch of woman around Orange County, Atlanta, New Jersey, New York and people actually sit and watch it. I find it BORING. I would watch a group of kids from different regions and diffrerent economic backgrounds go through the selection process and daily care routines. Slick shear down south is totally different for us folks up north. Real World for Cattle Kids? Maybe I am off base. If you could get farm channel to carry a once week reality update. I am sure Lifetime or Bravo would buy it. LOL. Just a thought.


Maybe animal planet would pick it up........

 

[ZNT]

No one has shot a reality show following an exihibitor from the selection of said show animal to the final sale or birth. To me, it someone documented the start to finish work that it takes for these successful young folks to BUILD a winner it might make more of an impact. Hell we follow a bunch of woman around Orange County, Atlanta, New Jersey, New York and people actually sit and watch it. I find it BORING. I would watch a group of kids from different regions and diffrerent economic backgrounds go through the selection process and daily care routines. Slick shear down south is totally different for us folks up north. Real World for Cattle Kids? Maybe I am off base. If you could get farm channel to carry a once week reality update. I am sure Lifetime or Bravo would buy it. LOL. Just a thought.


Maybe animal planet would pick it up........

My wife actually wrote CMT about this exact idea.  We have this family that we are great friends with and love to death, BUT they have the most animated family dynamic, especially at the shows, that we have ever seen.  A camera crew following this family around for one show season would have been the most comical thing you've ever seen and would surely be a sucess.  I will protect their identity, UNLESS they become big stars.  ;D

 

[ggjs]

I used to see this in leasure golf and bowling leagues a while ago.  Why not have a Calcutta (sp?) the night before the show with a % of the money going towards some of the "also rans".  Or these families who buy into the chance of the "handicappers" must help or assist their bought into family and get a % of the Calcutta or "lottery" bucket.  The nomination is totally optional but I think this would be an easy to get all different levels of competitors to get involved with one and other.

 

[knabe]

with a % of the money going towards some of the "also rans". 

just another disguise for redistribution of wealth.  since most show cattle lose money, people could save more money not participating at all. 

i'd rather just have a mandated open mike or hidden microphones about people complaining.  i think that would do more to clean up the whole operation real quick.

you would get some real drama you could sell on some reality show.  you could really get the mascara running and the fists flying and it would be the adults, not the kids.

 

[Throttle]

[/quote]

  since most show cattle lose money, people could save more money not participating at all. 


[/quote]

I think that is a large part of why this whole thread was started. PPL are doing just that

 

[GoWyo]

I guess it boils down to how deep you want your jackpot show to pay to keep people going to it.  If it is winner take all and that gets the numbers there, then by all means, do it.  However, if the show gets bigger by paying deeper, whether through a handicap system or just paying more places, then that "redistribution of wealth," is what what can lead to the success of the show and keep folks interested in the hobby.

 

[ggjs]

Yes you can spin it as a "redirection of money" and "it all looses money" but what I was really trying to drive home is the "mentoring" aspect that could be the learning experience at all different levels we are after.  Shoot, if someone did not take time to teach me rights and wrongs how would I have learned anything.  When it comes to kids and learning about competitions, socializing, and hard work and dedication I don't think anyone can put a price limit on that.  JMO  When it comes kids, look at all of the other things they could be involved with (good and BAD).  I whole heartedly believe spending a little time and money to get more family time together is worth every penny (dollar x10 x 100 ...).  I am looking forward to my family time together working around livestock for a long time.  Thanks for allowing me to vent.

 

[simtal]

I'll argue that the money thing is bogus.  Nobody shows cattle for money (not directly anyway), if you do your in the wrong business. I showed for 10-12 years, didn't come close to making a dime, but the stuff I learned while doing it--how do you value that?  If I never showed, I never would have had the opportunities I have today.  Even if you do win, do you ever come out ahead, dollars and sense wise? Long term, hell no.  But does it matter?  Redistrubuting wealth doesn't teach the kids anything, except socialism.

 

[Throttle]

I agree that you don't show cattle to make money...it is about the fun and fellowship and lessons learned

I don't think what is being proposed with the claiming and Ring B type concepts here is to redistribute the wealth or give people a chance to make money showing cattle or anything like that. What I see is that less people are showing cattle, not because they used to make money doing it and now they can't, but because they are losing a little more money at it each year as input costs continue to rise. Diesel fuel is $3/ga and two families with 4 head each decide not to make the 150 mile round trip that weekend. The show takes in $320 less in entry fees this year than last and decides to only pay top three instead of five in each class, and then next year 2 more families with 3 head each stay home because they got 4th in class last year and didn't get any premium money, and now the student group or local cattlemen or whoever is putting on the show eventually can not make enough money to justify doing it anymore. So I see it as a cycle that needs to be broken before the numbers go down to zero, not because everyone should make money showing cattle, but because without numbers steady or increasing at shows, club calf producers will be  out of business.

Now combine this concept of decreasing numbers of families showing club calves and decreasing opportunities to show them with the slowly rising tide of the animal welfare debate and one can see that maybe discussing/experimenting with some changes in the way we do things isn't an all bad idea, IMO

 

[knabe]

so, if a guy wants to sponsor a local show, what are some classes to contribute to that help diversity.

ie,  bred and owned, $50 for anyone who shows a fullblood maine.  they don't need to win a class, just participate.

i don't care about the amount of the money or that it's a pair of clippers, just rewarding doing something different that is breed based rather than the fake maintainer type stuff.

 

[JoeBnTN]

OK, I'm one of those goofy golfers that loves to play in golf tournaments - sometimes to win but sometimes for fun.  One tournament I play in is an ABCD tournament, where teams are randomly assigned based on their skill level, with each tam having an "expert" down to the "novice/beginner".  The key to the tournament is that everyone has to be part of the team's success, i.e. you have to use everyone's drive at least once, everyone's putt, each player has their individual score for one hole counted for the team and so on.

What if we did a youth beef contest the same way.

4 person team with 4 contests - showing, judging, a beef quiz and a marketing presentation on the calf.  Here's the ABCD part - each team has to pick one person for each contest and each person can only do one contest.  So the "A" person might be the showman, "B" might do the quiz, the novice might do the marketing and the "C" might do the judging class.  Also the team would fit the animal, but each person would be assigned to 1/4 of that animal and they have to do their own section.  They could talk to each other so that the expert could help the novice but they couldn't actually touch anyone else section.  That way everyone would compete and participate on an equal level and it would encourage interaction between the kids.

Crazy?!?!?  ... but it might be a fun way to spend a couple of hours at a show.

 

[frostback]

I love that idea. But how do you pick the teams and keep them all even? Do you have them fill out a questionair at check in and have a someone or a few set the teams from that?