PHA calf video

[shortyjock89]

AJ, some of the stuff that you said, I agree with, but all that about the THC sires are the only ones who can sire the "look", I find to be totally false.  One bull can disprove your theory: Who Made Who.  Sure, he is over a decade old, but he has sired almost as many, and possibly more, show winners than Heat Wave.  His calves have good hair, and his females go on to make excellent cows.  He is even suggested for use on heifers, so he might go ahead and prove your 100lb bwt theory wrong too.  There are bulls out of the THC and PHAC lines that are free of both defects, and yet they still sire the "look". I think that some people know what bull(s) I'm talking about.  I talk about him too much as it is. He's a Shorthorn, and there are a couple more 'horns that are free of defects and sire the look, but I'm not sure anyone wants to hear about it right now.  Ok, I've said enough for now.

 

[Show Dad]

Boy you'd think I had stepped on a cats tail.

If there is no "look" as you say then why breed carriers? (Feel set up? Sorry, just trying to understand the why.)

 

[shortyjock89]

If there is no "look" as you say then why breed carriers? (Feel set up? Sorry, just trying to understand the why.)

I don't.  There are enough clean bulls that it's not necessary for me to.  Then again, I don't breed for steers.  I was told when I was just starting out to never breed for steers.  Trump and Sonny: Not carriers, and they have a strong influence in my herd.  Kool: Carrier, but we have a THF female out of him.  She had the "look" for sure. 

The only calf we had to pull this year was a double-muscled calf out of a cow that we culled.  We bred more than half of our cows to clean "clubby" bulls, and had no trouble.  Not going to be breeding to any known cow killers though..that just doesn't make sense.

 

[Jill]

Boy you'd think I had stepped on a cats tail.

If there is no "look" as you say then why breed carriers? (Feel set up? Sorry, just trying to understand the why.)

With the exception of Heat Wave, I don't see a reason to!

 

[itk]

I haven't had a single TH calf, yet. Others on here have. The first time I do have one, and, if deliberate omission of the facts contributes to this occurrance, I will show Y'uns just exactly WHY the Civil War took so long for Y'all's ancestors to win.

GB



[/quote]


We may have won the war but you guys got NASCAR and Lynyrd Skynyrd as a consolation prize.

 

[red]

question- if someone sells a flush w/ a carrier & there is no mention of the status- is that an omission?

Red

 

[DL]

question- if someone sells a flush w/ a carrier & there is no mention of the status- is that an omission?

Red

ahhh, the popular sins of omission.....they are certainly everywhere, BUT when does a sin of omission become a sin of stupidity??

 

[kanshow]

I just keep thinking of the poor person who is just getting into the breed or a first time calf kid that buys into this problem.  Seems like there ought to be some ethics inolved.. 

 

[DL]

I just keep thinking of the poor person who is just getting into the breed or a first time calf kid that buys into this problem.  Seems like there ought to be some ethics inolved.. 

yeah I am with you kanshow, but it seems when there is $ involved some peoples ethics go out the window - I was looking at a catalog the other day - filled with females that could be carriers - some even bred to carriers and not a single mention of TH or PHA for these females - zero, zip, nada

and the new kids on the block, the uninformed, the unaware get taken - pointing out yet again the importance of knowing and trusting the person you buy cattle from......

after several years of pretty aggressive education on multiple fronts, I am continually amazed at what a lot of people, including people who should know, don't know.........

 

[kanshow]

I'm not saying I wouldn't use or keep a carrier - it really depends on the cow, situation, etc.  It's just that I feel that there should be disclosure.  Look at HYPP and AQHA - right on the papers. 

 

[garybob]

I just keep thinking of the poor person who is just getting into the breed or a first time calf kid that buys into this problem.  Seems like there ought to be some ethics inolved.. 

That's why people like DL and myself take our chosen stance on this issue.

GB

 

[knabe]

I'm not saying I wouldn't use or keep a carrier - it really depends on the cow, situation, etc.  It's just that I feel that there should be disclosure.  Look at HYPP and AQHA - right on the papers. 

it is on the papers for maine's, indicated with results obtained by parentage (both clear), or by test.  i don't know if anyone has ever had their papers indicate a PHAC individual yet.

it's not mandatory, but for bulls after 2009, it will be.  females mandatory was rejected by board 10-2 with nelson and rademacher for it.

i agree with this, but i think the breed could do more on the papers to indicate unclear status upon transfer a requirement.  i would be for that, it's kinda like, hey, one last time, are you really aware of this?  after that, you can only go so far from protecting people from themselves.  ie government controlled thermostats with sensors to detect cigarette smoking in smoke free apartments and automatic mailing of fines that show up on your drivers license renewal. (currently propsed in CA, by the way)

 

[kanshow]

Exactly..  no one has the right to stop me from using whatever bull I choose or stop me from smoking cigs if I want to smoke.  All I ask is that I know about the problem so I can use that information in my decision making process. 

 

[garybob]

I haven't had a single TH calf, yet. Others on here have. The first time I do have one, and, if deliberate omission of the facts contributes to this occurrance, I will show Y'uns just exactly WHY the Civil War took so long for Y'all's ancestors to win.

GB

We may have won the war but you guys got NASCAR and Lynyrd Skynyrd as a consolation prize.
[/quote]Alll's I'm saying, is I'll stomp the "living fertilizer" outta somebody, if I get one of these calves just because somebody lied, in order to get their money back on a breeding share in a particular sire ( or any other rationalization for selling someone an affected calf).

GB

 

[knabe]

I haven't had a single TH calf, yet. Others on here have. The first time I do have one, and, if deliberate omission of the facts contributes to this occurrance, I will show Y'uns just exactly WHY the Civil War took so long for Y'all's ancestors to win.

GB

We may have won the war but you guys got NASCAR and Lynyrd Skynyrd as a consolation prize.

Alll's I'm saying, is I'll stomp the "living fertilizer" outta somebody, if I get one of these calves just because somebody lied, in order to get their money back on a breeding share in a particular sire ( or any other rationalization for selling someone an affected calf).

GB
[/quote]


"living fertilizer" used correctly  ;D

i watched a taped oprah with my wife yesterday, and doctor oz said the reason the north won was because of foot fungus.  the north had boots and socks, and the south didn't or something like that.

my wife says she "saves" time by recording it and fast forwarding through the commercials, she tapes dr. phil too.  never has so much saved time gone to waste.

 

[garybob]

I haven't had a single TH calf, yet. Others on here have. The first time I do have one, and, if deliberate omission of the facts contributes to this occurrance, I will show Y'uns just exactly WHY the Civil War took so long for Y'all's ancestors to win.

GB

We may have won the war but you guys got NASCAR and Lynyrd Skynyrd as a consolation prize.

Alll's I'm saying, is I'll stomp the "living fertilizer" outta somebody, if I get one of these calves just because somebody lied, in order to get their money back on a breeding share in a particular sire ( or any other rationalization for selling someone an affected calf).

GB

"living fertilizer" used correctly  ;D

i watched a taped oprah with my wife yesterday, and doctor oz said the reason the north won was because of foot fungus.  the north had boots and socks, and the south didn't or something like that.

my wife says she "saves" time by recording it and fast forwarding through the commercials, she tapes dr. phil too.   never has so much saved time gone to waste.
[/quote]I'm NOT in any way, shape, fashion, or form defending slavery or the resulting apartheid system that was present in the South until the 1960's.
Thought I'd put out the disclaimer.

GB

 

[knabe]

I'm NOT in any way, shape, fashion, or form defending slavery or the resulting apartheid system that was present in the South until the 1960's.
Thought I'd put out the disclaimer.
GB
[/quote]

I know GB

carrier users, what are the percent good ones that are carriers versus the clean one's?

 

[Show Heifer]

I just keep thinking of the poor person who is just getting into the breed or a first time calf kid that buys into this problem.  Seems like there ought to be some ethics inolved.. 

That's why people like DL and myself take our chosen stance on this issue.

GB

Careful garybob, you will get lumped in with DL and I, and you may not want that!!!

I think the maines and shorties should have to require a PHA/TH test regardless of parentage and have the results on the registration paper.  That way no  "confusion" could be had with clean vs. carrier pedigrees.  Plus, never have figured out how some people decide whether it is a AI calf or bull bred calf when they AI then turn the bull out. Hmmmmm.....

 

[knabe]

I think the maines and shorties should have to require a PHA/TH test regardless of parentage and have the results on the registration paper.  That way no  "confusion" could be had with clean vs. carrier pedigrees.  Plus, never have figured out how some people decide whether it is a AI calf or bull bred calf when they AI then turn the bull out. Hmmmmm.....

cost, at some point, one has to be rewarded with testing by not having to test.

think of the free press of a claimed free animal that wasn't.  don't know of one yet, though i think there was confusion on one.


as for figuring out if AI or natural
records and not dumping a just bred heifer out with the bull for a day or two will have a gestation difference.  for unscrupulous types, they will always be trying to beat the system.

 

[Jill]

I'm not saying I wouldn't use or keep a carrier - it really depends on the cow, situation, etc.  It's just that I feel that there should be disclosure.   Look at HYPP and AQHA - right on the papers.   

it is on the papers for maine's, indicated with results obtained by parentage (both clear), or by test.  i don't know if anyone has ever had their papers indicate a PHAC individual yet.

it's not mandatory, but for bulls after 2009, it will be.  females mandatory was rejected by board 10-2 with nelson and rademacher for it.

i agree with this, but i think the breed could do more on the papers to indicate unclear status upon transfer a requirement.  i would be for that, it's kinda like, hey, one last time, are you really aware of this?  after that, you can only go so far from protecting people from themselves.  ie government controlled thermostats with sensors to detect cigarette smoking in smoke free apartments and automatic mailing of fines that show up on your drivers license renewal. (currently propsed in CA, by the way)

My PHAC female  has a C in the bottom square indicating Carrier status