Potential genetic defect in Shorthorn cattle

[knabe]

By the way, I overheard a few commercial Angus producers talking at a farm sale I was at last week discussing the "6 calves that were born with their brains outside of their head."  That's one I'm not familiar with, but it doesn't sound good.

have a neighbor that had a TH calf with the brains outside.

 

[jwfarms]

A bit refreshing is that most catalogs list that status semi prominently. 

 

[Dale]

Before I purchase animals or semen I want to know the DS status.  Yesterday we sent a DS-C heifer to town, and I will continue to send DS-C females to market when they have other issues.  Our better DS-C females may stay a while, but that will require lots of testing.  When we had a few TH carriers, we tested all female offspring and banded all carrier males that we considered worthy of being replacements.  Before you decide this is not a big deal (DS), read posts by Oakview and OH Breeder.  People with experience with DS do not want to see any more defective calves.  I do not want to have that experience. 

Online pedigrees show a popular Shorthorn AI sire now as DS-C.  Another very popular Shorthorn AI sire has a dam now listed as DS-C.  Buy seedstock & semen only after the DS test.  Even with cattle prices at record highs, most of us need to manage to avoid unnecessary expenses.

Non-lethal defects may cost MORE since there is feed expense, poor doing and odd animals to deal with, possible vet bill, disposing of a larger, older animal, etc.  Non-lethal defective animals will not look good in the front pasture.

 

[RyanChandler]

What about the people w/ hundreds of unaffected calves? Either the punnett square doesn't apply here--- or we're selecting against a defect that, in general, has an undetectable level of expression. 

 

[mark tenenbaum]

What about the people w/ hundreds of unaffected calves? Either the punnett square doesn't apply here--- or we're selecting against a defect that, in general, has an undetectable level of expression. //// Simply put in my hillbilly lingo-how many of them are out there? I know its a problem but I honestly have never seen one with visible DS-and Ive seen a few cattle here and there O0

 

[frostback]

So if PHA and DS are somewhat related, do we need to check PHA carriers for DS?

 

[oakview]

I can't tell by looking at their pedigrees on the ASA website if JPJ or Double Vision are TSC.  Can I assume that it is safe to breed Double Vision daughters to JPJ?

I have seen DS afflicted calves sired by one of my EX herd bulls.  I can drive you to several places to see DS afflicted calves.  I can show you pictures of numerous DS afflicted calves.  I can guarantee you that I will not buy another herd bull unless I see a DS free test.  I know lots of people that have never seen a TH afflicted calf.  I know a lot of people that have never seen a PHA afflicted calf.  The TH and PHA calves are dead, so you probably won't see one when you go visit your neighborhood cattleman.  The DS calves may be alive, but they probably won't be in the pasture by the road.  Just like the May calves that were really Januarys, you won't see them on your visit.

 

[Okotoks]

DS is a bit of a different issue than some of the lethal genetic defects. We obviously don't want to spread it but for many of us who have never experienced a defective calf it will mean a lot more testing. We tested every animal on our place for TH and all our herd bulls for PHA. Dr. Beever had said testing for PHA was probably a waste of time for many Canadian bloodlines as we had not used the affected Maine Anjou bulls. In the case of DS when it can be passed along without exhibiting symptons in the carriers or even the double carriers it probably means we will have to test at the very least all our herd bulls. If you do a 12 generation extended search on CLRC Deerpark Improver will show up anywhere from 6 to 50 times in most pedigrees. Even if you take out the Deerpark Improver 2 and Duke Of Dublin (both DSF) descendants there is lots of opportunity for DS to have been passed along :'( 
How many more defects that are occasionally lethal will be identified. There are dozens of lethal defects amongst the various breeds already. ???
Does anyone know if they are able to use DNA on file for TH and PHA to test for DS?
Anyway this is probably a topic that will lead to lots of  (argue)
(dog)

 

[OH Breeder]

I can't tell by looking at their pedigrees on the ASA website if JPJ or Double Vision are TSC.  Can I assume that it is safe to breed Double Vision daughters to JPJ?

I have seen DS afflicted calves sired by one of my EX herd bulls.  I can drive you to several places to see DS afflicted calves.  I can show you pictures of numerous DS afflicted calves.  I can guarantee you that I will not buy another herd bull unless I see a DS free test.  I know lots of people that have never seen a TH afflicted calf.  I know a lot of people that have never seen a PHA afflicted calf.  The TH and PHA calves are dead, so you probably won't see one when you go visit your neighborhood cattleman.  The DS calves may be alive, but they probably won't be in the pasture by the road.  Just like the May calves that were really Januarys, you won't see them on your visit.

I agree 100% (thumbsup)
No....May's that are really January's. That doesn't happen.  :

 

[sue]

Does anyone know if they are able to use DNA on file for TH and PHA to test for DS?


Geneseek is the preferred place for American Shorthorn-  send samples to Jake Alden . I used both semen and old th/pha on file at Beevers a year ago, but now ASA would prefer you work with Geneseek. Geneseek's turnaround time is much faster. I sent samples to Beever last June and had results this January?

 

[Dale]

3744349 PHA-F TH-F DS-C DNA-Y LEN RU T A LEADER--wonder if Ka'Ba Leader or Ka'Ba Double Leader are carriers?  Full sibs to Len Ru TA Leader, High Octane and Leggs, are also in question.  Leggs was used more than High Octane.  This means that I need to test 2 more that descend down from this line, unless DS test results are published on Leader and/or Double Leader.

 

[oakview]

I wouldn't get in too big of a hurry to test those 2.  Sooner or later, the information may even trickle down to the big shots.

 

[aj]

Is there semen on improver out there? Can semen be tested? Has improver been tested for DS?

 

[aj]

If 3744349 is a ds carrier.....sure looks like improver could be the culprit.

 

[Okotoks]

Is there semen on improver out there? Can semen be tested? Has improver been tested for DS?

from ASA website
Animal Information
3684142 TH-C DS-C
Regnum Tattoo Name Birthdate
3684142 DEERPARK IMPROVER 18 March 1972

 

[aj]

Thanks!

 

[sue]

  Latest from American Shorthorn Association regarding DS, Donor and AI studs:


  http://www.shorthorn.org/newsandupdates/2014/722014_newsandupdates.html

 

[BTDT]

Interesting thread.  If I understand genetics, most DNA do not care if it is in an animal with registration papers, so being in or sold to a "commercial herd", makes little difference.

The people who sell carriers, to ANY defect, to other unknowing breeders or commercial cattleman should be held legally accountable. 

I would never and will never, buy any animal without it being tested for all known defects. If it comes up positive - no purchase and the seller pays for the test.  If it is negative - I purchase and I pay the testing.  It really isn't that complicated.

 

[aj]

In the herd bull issue of the Shorthorn country.......I didn't notice one clean jpj son advertised. Does this mean he was DS homo or does it mean that the ds carriers just have the look?

 

[knabe]

are you saying all jpj sons were advertised as carriers?


absence of results doesn't mean they are carriers or free.