Potential genetic defect in Shorthorn cattle

[RyanChandler]

There were DS free bulls advertised.

 

[knabe]

In the herd bull issue of the Shorthorn country.......I didn't notice one clean jpj son advertised. Does this mean he was DS homo or does it mean that the ds carriers just have the look?

without reviewing the issue, i think it may mean you just didn't "look"?

 

[aj]

Name one......jpj........son......that was advertised as ds free.......in the herd bull issue. I got mine a week ago.

 

[oakview]

More and more DSC cattle are shown on the ASA website almost daily.  Still nothing on JPJ (I haven't looked today).  I wonder why?

Is DS status going to influence your future breeding program?  If so, how much?  I've noticed several fairly popular bulls (non JPJ descendants) are now listed as TSC.  I guess I agree with those that will make sure any future bull purchases, live or semen, are tested with the results they wanted.  I assume for most the desired result will be clean, but there are those.....

 

[knabe]

There were DS free bulls advertised.

any JPJ sons?

 

[aj]

I can get to improver on both sides of jpj. I just wondered if he is homo ds. I guess if he was than all offspring would be ds carriers.

 

[aj]

Are their any daughters that are dsf?

 

[RyanChandler]

There were DS free bulls advertised.

any JPJ sons?

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[Doc]

Big Daddy Jazz is clean.

 

[knabe]

Are their any daughters that are dsf?

what's the big deal (in general).  we have tests now.  use them. not a big deal.


the day of arguing about who is advertising clean, carrier and their ethics is a waste of time and over.


we have the tools to do now what we want. do it and quit wasting yours and everyone else's time with idealism.


for an idealist to keep improving, they have to keep finding people who fall short of their expectations until all they have left is themselves. it forces one to keep changing breeds from maine's or shorthorns or whatever because the motivator is to stick it to the people who are not perfect.

 

[aj]

Ok....thats what i needed to know. JPJ must not be homo ds. The lack of clean ds bulls advertised.....to me indicates that there is a look to ds. Nothing more more.....nothing less.

 

[knabe]

Ok....thats what i needed to know. JPJ must not be homo ds. The lack of clean ds bulls advertised.....to me indicates that there is a look to ds. Nothing more more.....nothing less.

you are back to where you always have been.  defects have a look.  just raise defect free cattle now that tests are available. you, unfortunately have been bitten more than most. you will get through it.

 

[aj]

I have a hard time following you knabe......but keep up the good work. Carriers have the look and the defective ds calves are crippled I thought.

 

[oakview]

You would have a hard time convincing me that DS carriers have "the look", or any particular phenotype.  The DS carrier bull I purchased, unfortunately, was very good, but I wouldn't put him above the previous several bulls I used, all totally clean.  He had tons of muscle, but hardly the rump structure I associate with the Improver based cattle.  One of the two defective calves my friend had out of my bull was very good (other than the feet!), the other had very few good qualities.  Certainly no "look."  Look at the DS positive bulls on the ASA website.  Do they all have "the look?"  In my opinion, based on my personal experiences and the knowledge of the DS carriers I have, they are as widely varied in type and kind as the general beef population.  Some big, some small.  Some deep, some shallow.  Some thick, some narrow.  Some heavy boned, some fine boned.  The only consistent similarity I can see is that they all seem to go back to Improver.  Some of them many, many generations ago.

 

[Shorthorns4us]

I am glad to see the Association is taking a stand about registrations on defect carrier cattle and giving the membership plenty of notice to help us resolve the problems.  This will be a lot of work!

Looking forward-- how is this going to effect sales of registered cattle in your opinion?

I am pondering what my opinion is as a small breeder.....???? :-\ :-\ :-\

 

[sue]

The board took a stand on DSH - but not THC or PHAC.  Not sure if I read it the same as you all ? 

 

[jaimiediamond]

We got one of our herdsires back and Diamond Prophecy 21P x4175322 has tested PHA-F TH-F DS-F.  Still waiting on our other sires

 

[Shorthorns4us]

I meant towards the DS factor on taking a stand about registrations.  I don't know if it is in their plans to phase in TH and PHA sometime???
I am not sure how this is going to effect my registrations.  I have already phased out of the bull selling business-- very competitive, space consuming to keep them separate and I just don't have the volume to turn and pick from.  I think in the bull business you need to have a larger selection for people to go through for bulls-- I just don't have enough bull worthy calves each fall to have that selection.  I really like selling breeding heifers to people-- I like to help people add to or help develop their herd and get their feedback.  There always seem to be customers looking for heifers or cows- so my smaller volume fits this better. 
EF

 

[Dale]

One Shorthorn bull is now advertised as triple clean.  Since several bulls were double dirty, one has to wonder if anyone will advertise their bull as triple dirty--would that be a triple crown?

So far I've found one DSH-C AI sire.  How many of them have you found?  In looking at pedigrees there are several bulls out there with the potential to be DSH-C (that's homozygous DS carrier, right?).  If there is a simpler way to find carriers than going through each individual animal search on ASA website, please teach me.

ABS now publishes the defect status with each Angus bull with DDF, etc. for each of 6 defects.  Those breeders who are waiting for DS to go away, since it is non-lethal may have a long wait....  DS testing has already cost us quite a bit, and I don't want to buy genetics that are DS-C.  Shorthorn breeders need to be leaders (some of them already are) and get their bulls and other potential carriers tested for DS and other defects. 

 

[Okotoks]

One Shorthorn bull is now advertised as triple clean.  Since several bulls were double dirty, one has to wonder if anyone will advertise their bull as triple dirty--would that be a triple crown?

So far I've found one DSH-C AI sire.  How many of them have you found?  In looking at pedigrees there are several bulls out there with the potential to be DSH-C (that's homozygous DS carrier, right?).  If there is a simpler way to find carriers than going through each individual animal search on ASA website, please teach me.

ABS now publishes the defect status with each Angus bull with DDF, etc. for each of 6 defects.  Those breeders who are waiting for DS to go away, since it is non-lethal may have a long wait....  DS testing has already cost us quite a bit, and I don't want to buy genetics that are DS-C.  Shorthorn breeders need to be leaders (some of them already are) and get their bulls and other potential carriers tested for DS and other defects.

I really wish the ASA would put a list up with DS results like they did when TH was first being tested. It is nice that results are put on the website for each bull as they get them but it would be nice to have a DS free list to go through.
Diamond Prophecy 21P is "triple clean" as are our current herd sires, Herbourne B Manitoba Gus 13Z, Eionmor Piper 23Z and Diamond Zulu 3Z. We just got 6 results back today and they were all DS free but there will be a lot more testing to do. I have to keep reminding myself we are lucky there are tests and every breed has something to test for, some a lot more than us.