Potential genetic defect in Shorthorn cattle

[aj]

I am starting to think that if any herd did a linebreeding program for 10 years.......some defect would show up. It seems like only when real popular lines cross up and alot of defect calves are created in a large number.....that someone figures out it is genetic. Thats what makes me admire the 6807 and other bulls and herds that line stuuf up without defects.

 

[knabe]

how do you know that 6807 wasn't the product of test breeding or line breeding?

it's all to obvious to me that the person who popularized him extensively test bred and line bred cattle.

though 6807 may or may not be the product of line breeding, he is what one would expect after line breeding.

line breeding is to fix traits and to get rid of defects.

why this is so continually hard to understand is confounding.

 

[aj]

I just wonder in like the Shorthorn breed. You have alot of smaller herds who a.i. all over the place. A special bull for a specific cow. If a herd like this has a goofy calf once every 6 years......is it written off as a enviromental deal? They really aren't paying attention about it being a defect.....of genetic origen. I just wonder....what all is floating around out there

 

[knabe]

I just wonder....what all is floating around out there

it doesn't matter.  there are ways to address it.  there is no use worrying about all the small little stuff all over the place.


have a good program, know how to deal with problems.  you can't solve everyone else's problems.

 

[Dale]

On the ASA animal search bulls are listed as follows:

Deerpark Improver        DS-C

Deerpark Improver 2nd  DS-F
Deerpark Improver 57  DS-F
IDS Duke of Dublin      DS-F

If you see others, please post.  Are there any that are DS-H on there?

We just sent in several to the lab, and the turn around is maybe less than 2 weeks.  Is DS test cost $20 now?

 

[knabe]

I am going to call it right now.... I've been doing some pedigree reading...

The bull in question, that might possess this genetic defect- is double bred to Irish Pride...

I'm going to guess and say that this bull was mated to a ton of shorthorn females, who were daughters, granddaughters, etc.. of Irish Pride's most famous son... He was the king of club calf shorthorns-- and these females are believed to work really good on the bull in question...

I'm going to guess and say-- this genetic defect is derived from Irish Pride...

Just speculation though at this point...

Irish pride is on top and bottom meaning a couple of things.

test irish pride progeny, ie double stuff to make sure he's not triple stuff, then test the jakes pride, keep using defect bulls, screen offspring. still relevant cattle to people.

cool that duke of dublin is free.


thanks aj for helping. i guess i would like to add that without people willing to stack matings, we would have a harder time finding these defects. i think it's pretty cool there are creative enough breeders out there and in the long run, they have helped all breeds tremendously.

 

[Dale]

DS-F  DEERPARK LEADER 13TH

 

[Doc]

Here is the results on 2 of my bulls :
NPS Durango 774 CBH ET ,  DSF
NPS Improvers Stride 832X, DSC

One is a 57th son and 1 is an Improver son.

 

[OH Breeder]

I am going to call it right now.... I've been doing some pedigree reading...

The bull in question, that might possess this genetic defect- is double bred to Irish Pride...

I'm going to guess and say that this bull was mated to a ton of shorthorn females, who were daughters, granddaughters, etc.. of Irish Pride's most famous son... He was the king of club calf shorthorns-- and these females are believed to work really good on the bull in question...

I'm going to guess and say-- this genetic defect is derived from Irish Pride...

Just speculation though at this point...

Irish pride is on top and bottom meaning a couple of things.

test irish pride progeny, ie double stuff to make sure he's not triple stuff, then test the jakes pride, keep using defect bulls, screen offspring. still relevant cattle to people.

cool that duke of dublin is free.


thanks aj for helping. i guess i would like to add that without people willing to stack matings, we would have a harder time finding these defects. i think it's pretty cool there are creative enough breeders out there and in the long run, they have helped all breeds tremendously.

That mating looks like PHC x DSC. Thought Pa Do Suds was PHC and obvisouly JPJ is DSC. My understanding is the defect is carried by Improver. Improver 3rd did not type right from my understanding.

 

[knabe]

Improver 3rd did not type right from my understanding.

what does that mean.  he's the sire of irish pride. did he not have the defect or did he not show up as parent to irish pride or son of improver or some other relationship?

 

[knabe]

http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/the-big-show/deerpark-improver-3rd/


"I'm assuming, for what that's worth, that you mean Deerpark Improver. [/size]Deerpark Improver 3rd is the bull my father purchased in the 70's, and is the hub of our program. Incidentally, Dr. Beever discovered there was no parental link between old Improver and the 3rd, and as a matter of fact the 3rd has no link to any known Irish. Therefore I consider the 3rd "foundation".The Deerpark Leader (Dividend) line was just, if not more influential, than the Improver line."

 

[RyanChandler]

And yet Improver 3rd is Asterick free  (lol)

 

[knabe]

And yet Improver 3rd is Asterick free  (lol)

isn't asterisk free just breedist? really, does it matter that when the asterisk free were "declared" they didn't miss some that should have been? and since when all these breeds started, there was no such thing as asterisk free anyway, it was just opinion and if the 51% didn't like the 49%, they didn't get in, even though they were similar?  all this breeding purity is just snobbery.  we don't like it in people, we shouldn't like it in cattle. a snob is a snob.

 

[aj]

Is jpj.....ds-h. That would help alot.

 

[oakview]

I'm hoping someday all of this DS information will come out.  Irish Pride's dam is listed on the pedigree as a daughter of Deerpark Improver, so that would be the most likely source of the gene.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Ryan....I think that Improver keep your status as * free as well.....also some other "fakes" that almost all people knos that they are kept your register status as well theur progeny...and history goes on.....so why keep a register, follow rules, make performance control and promove it.....maybe some guys need nuts to take off these fakes and really bred a true and clean breed....NOTE: My clean isn't refering to asterisk...non asteriks or what hell percentage you wish raise...I'm refering to clean for a honest breed pedigree.....

All guys can raise what wish...and it is your problem as this was yoiur decision....wrong or right...none one have the right to intervene, as is a personal criteria.

Here in Brazil an interest case occur last year. A Nelore bull thats sold ore than one million straws and has more than 700.000 sons, many on herd book, was declared son of another sire. This bull was credited to be son of a famous bull that sold any semen and their sons reach high prices on elite sales, some animals were sold by more that 800.000 dollars......so, the DNA was did and this bull wasn't sired by the famous bull and yes, by a regular bull....the herd book changed all pedigrees of animals sired by fake one, also all performance data provide by fake guy were taked off of the betrayed husband....so...is so hardy do this clean up on Shorthorn herd book?

Maybe some nuts are needed!

 

[knabe]

the accuracy matters above all else.

 

[sue]

I can only assume that DS, TH and PHA status has to be recorded before A.I. Certificates are released? Same for Donor females ?  Registration time will be interesting.

 

[RyanChandler]

I think they're reaching w/ this DS deal.

What % of inflicted calves w/ have a debilitating defect?

 

[oakview]

By "reaching" do you mean you think they're making too big of a deal out of it? 

My friend had 5 cows he bred to my Proud Jazz son three years ago.  His Double Stuff based cows produced 2 afflicted calves.  It hurt me to watch one of them walk.  The other was not so bad, but obviously not right.  Pictures were taken and samples were sent in.  2 out of 5 is a high enough percentage for me to be concerned.  I fed out the heifers for him and took them to the locker.  They were of no value at the sale barn.  One finished out okay, the other did not gain very well.  I might lose weight, too, if it hurt that bad to move.  I did not have any afflicted calves, I assume since I had no cows with Improver in their pedigree that were bred to that bull.  I have kept a bull calf I raised for possible future use.  Testing is being done right now.  We'll see how it turns out.

Another friend used a related bull in his herd.  He sent in 10 samples for DS testing.  7 of them came out DSC.  He said he just sampled 10 at random, none of which showed any visible symptoms.  He only tested because he had a DS calf and wanted to know where it came from.  If you're absolutely positive you have no TH, PHA, or DS in your herd, then it may seem like a big deal is being made out of nothing.  However, since we are supposedly supplying breeding stock to people who, as one gentleman put it, "don't know TH from 4-H,", then it should be a big deal to us. 

Lots more to understand about this defect.  Things are slowly coming out.  The identification of carriers, to me, is a huge step in the right direction. 

By the way, I overheard a few commercial Angus producers talking at a farm sale I was at last week discussing the "6 calves that were born with their brains outside of their head."  That's one I'm not familiar with, but it doesn't sound good.