Protien Levels & sources

[kanshow]

I know we've discussed this before but what are everyone's thoughts on protien levels & where are you getting it?

Heifers:  We start the heifers on a 14% ration and in most cases, that is where they stay.  Would you lower the % on a larger framed heifer that you had trouble fleshing?  Or ???   

Steers:  What do you do?

Sources:  Soybean meal?? alfalfa pellets??  Commercially prepared?    Last year, we used a premix with SBM & Rumensin in it. 

 

[JbarL]

what about ....  hybryd sudan sorguam grass ?  has/does anyone use it and no what protein levels it has ( or supposed to have ) ?      10 / 11 %  ?  jbarl

 

[MYT Farms]

When we feed heifers at weaning time, we usually just feed them the same starter mix as the steers along with high quality alfalfa hay and good grass hay.  The grain is at around 13% protein and that hay is somewhere's around 10 or maybe 12%. I'm not sure how that would average out 'cause we feed it separate. Our grain ration gets it from beet, soybean, and alfalfa pellets combined. Hope this helps a little?? ???

 

[klintdog]

Our bagged show feed is a 15% protein ration. I also add beet pulp to the ration. In the past we've fed ShowRite that is a 12.5% ration. I'm actually starting to get concerned that we might be a little high since the cattle seem to be growing fine, but they're not fleshing as easily as I'd like. Do you guys think we need to drop to a lower protein to put on more fat and slow the growth?

 

[klintdog]

Gonna bump this for the question above.

 

[CAB]

What it boils down to is you need to find an unbiased nutritionist. Need to know what the daily digestable requirements are for what you are feeding. Example, If you are feeding a feed that is 13% protein, and you are feeding replacement heifers 5 lbs/hd/day verses fat heifers that are eating 20 lbs /head/day. Let's assume that the protein is 100% digestable for simple figuring, 5lbs x .13 = .65 lbs of protein, 20lbs x .13 = 2.6 lbs of protein. Do you see what I am trying to explain? To me anything above 13% may be on the upper limits. The cattle are going to have excessively loose stools, but saying this, protein will build muscle. Most of the time when feeding/nutrition questions are asked here, I think that most PPL make it way too complicated and want to jerk the cattle cattle's appetite around with all of the additives that they hear are soo good, when if they would read Olsun's feeding protocol and try to adhere to it, they would find that they just need to find a good ration and stick with it. I like AAOK's info also. You will notice that he is consistence with his rations and advice. JMO. Brent

 

[PaPigMan]

The 15% might be a little high when pushing for the final finish.  We feed our show steers a 13% mix from weaning to finish unless we need to adjust for more cover, holding, etc.  Most of the protein in our ration comes from steam flaked corn and a 38% protein pellet.  I would talk to a nutritionist at your local feed store for additional recommendations.  I have to agree with CAB, find a ration that works for you and stick with it.

 

[klintdog]

The 15% might be a little high when pushing for the final finish.  We feed our show steers a 13% mix from weaning to finish unless we need to adjust for more cover, holding, etc.  Most of the protein in our ration comes from steam flaked corn and a 38% protein pellet.  I would talk to a nutritionist at your local feed store for additional recommendations.  I have to agree with CAB, find a ration that works for you and stick with it.

We've been feeding the ShowRite feeds for the past 5 years at around 2-3% body weight to our show heifers and bulls. This year ShowRite was up to $15 a bag, which didn't make any economic sense. The local feed store has a competing product that they manufacture (Woody's if anyone is familiar). They use cooked barley and corn, and a protein/mineral pellet in their ration, which works out to 15% protein. Their price was $9 a bag. For $6 a bag ($240 a ton) it was worth a try. By my math we were going to save around $7500 a year on feed cost. Now I'm looking at it and we do have loose stool, the cattle are growing and putting on muscle, but the fat just isn't coming with it. I tend to stay away from feed supplements since I don't have any experience using them, and I'm cocnerned with how they work with seed stock animals instead of market animals. Other than Appetite Express from Sullivans, we avoid them.

 

[Jill]

If you're talking about the Woody's that comes out of Dakotas, it is an excellent bagged feed.  We fed Woody's for years and loved it, it is one of the most consistant feeds we have ever used, but had some problems getting fresh feed in this area so the dealer quit carring it. 

 

[klintdog]

If you're talking about the Woody's that comes out of Dakotas, it is an excellent bagged feed.  We fed Woody's for years and loved it, it is one of the most consistant feeds we have ever used, but had some problems getting fresh feed in this area so the dealer quit carring it. 

The one and the same. I am at work right now and can look out my window and see the feed plant. My dad actually helped develop the original feed back when they started carrying it. We're one of the few purebred breeders in this area, so we got to be some guinea pigs. Did you ever run into problems with the feed being too hot at 15%?

 

[Jill]

Never had a problem, loved the feed.

 

[CAB]

  I may add that there are some PPL/nutritionist that say if the stool is not loose, that the cattle aren't gaining as much as they can. I don't think that I think of rations being too"HOT" B/C of protein levels, rather, I think of Too "HOT" being B/C of too high of energy levels, another thing is that if the protein levels are too high the cattle will back down off of volume some B/C they are getting their needed nutrition B4 they are eating all the dry matter intake that they are capable of.  That's why we say "BALANCED DIET" , almost anything can be used as a limiter, whether that be salt, water, or too high of a protein intake. Brent

 

[kanshow]

So how would you feed a smaller framed easier fleshing heifer vs  larger framed growthier heifer that is maybe a little harder to put cover on..    Same ration?  Different rations? 

 

[shortyjock89]

So how would you feed a smaller framed easier fleshing heifer vs  larger framed growthier heifer that is maybe a little harder to put cover on..    Same ration?   Different rations? 

For the little one, we add some oats and probably cut out some corn if we can.  Also feed quite a bit of filler.

For the taller one, add some fat..we like it in the liquid form.  Maybe add some barley, it puts a "better" fat on them than corn does I think.

 

[kanshow]

Thanks Justin,  that's kind of what we were thinking.

 

[klintdog]

So how would you feed a smaller framed easier fleshing heifer vs  larger framed growthier heifer that is maybe a little harder to put cover on..    Same ration?   Different rations? 

For the little one, we add some oats and probably cut out some corn if we can.  Also feed quite a bit of filler.

For the taller one, add some fat..we like it in the liquid form.  Maybe add some barley, it puts a "better" fat on them than corn does I think.

So in the case of the taller one, would you go with straight liquid fat, or something like Golden Flo?

 

[shortyjock89]

We've had good results with both, but we usually just use liquid fat..  We feed a couple of ounces/feeding, never feeding more than 4 oz at a time.  Start slow, they can get loose stools in a hurry if you go too fast.

 

[BCCC]

Thanks Justin,  that's kind of what we were thinking.

We have been feeding ours the fresh energy(99% fat)  for awhile now and it is really working well for me.