salute

[aj]

Its strictly a showring....eye appeal deal then(except for udder shape,structural correctness and disposition). Its not based on data or econonomical traits then. It based on youth projects and show ring stuff eye appeal or the ability to create eye appeal(for instance hair).

 

[cornish]

I specifically remember JIT stating that any bull calves born over 102 lbs get the knife... now he's breeding and promoting a bull 3 lbs over? <rock>

 

[OKshorthorn]

I specifically remember JIT stating that any bull calves born over 102 lbs get the knife... now he's breeding and promoting a bull 3 lbs over? <rock>

I thought he said 110 pounds, but I may be wrong.

 

[RyanChandler]

I have a Dottie 12H X Salute due in September that I am pretty excited about. We have only had 1 other Salute calf, we used him on a big framed cow a few years ago (wish this thread existed prior to breeding her that way!) and it was a bull calf, plenty of muscle, just got kinda tall. Same cow had a Fringe heifer that turned out great right up to a year of age when she went lame (way to straight.) We still have several straws of Fringe that will stay in the tank for now. Calves have looked good for the most part, we just can't risk the BW.

good for you! dump that trash-  +8 bw... you gotta be kiddin me.

 

[justintime]

For the record, I have set a maximum BW of 110 lbs for my bulls, and no matter what they look like or what their pedigree is, they are castrated if the weigh more than this at birth... no exceptions. This is the line I have drawn for my herd, and I have no idea if it is right or wrong, but I felt I had to start somewhere. I set this mark of 110 lbs 9 years ago no, and all I know is I have not had a single bull buyer complain about having unexpected calving issues. Until I have reason to change this, I will leave it at this BW. I have sold 211 bulls for breeding since I made this maximum line for BW and as I said, so far, I haven't had any complaints. In my 2012 calf crop, I have only had 1 calf exceed 100 lbs and that was one at 105 lbs but we have had a very mild winter as well.

As for answering aj, I am hesitant to even respond as I know full well that he will twist every sentence into whatever he wants it to say. I have never seen anyone who can criticize everyone else's cattle, yet has never presented some animals that he has raised that are in his opinion superior beasts, than aj.  I did not comment on this topic to get into a range war with aj, but he has asked a question and I will respond.

AJ has asked me what " best" means. I wonder if aj even knows what good, better and best can mean in regards to beef production. In my world, the word best is used to refer to specific calves that combine a number of important traits and considerations in my herd. First of all any calf I consider to be in  the " best category" catagory must be born unassisted with a moderate BW. Notice I did not say a small BW because I am not seeing adequate performance from small BW calves. A " best " calf has to show good growth, right from birth, and must be showing evidence of excellent muscle development early in life. They must be sound structured and have what I consider eye appeal. IMO, most cattlemen still like what their eyes tell them, and do not just select on numbers alone. Hopefully eye appeal and the numbers will go hand in hand. Timeline himself, had tremendous ultrasound data and also had eye appeal. He had an actual REA of 16.2 when measured and a 15.8 REA when adjusted to 12 months of age. His first daughters in production have beautiful udders and milk well. A calf I consider in the " best" category not only has to be good in it's own right but it has to have genetics to back it up, that suggest they will be troublefree, easy keeping and fertile.  There is much more to what should be considered in this category.

 

[frostback]

He was syndicated at the sale he first sold at, from Horseshoe Creek Shorthorns, and the new owners decided not to sell semen on the open market. So no semen avalible at this time.

 

[frostback]

Pretty sure you knew that already Jody.

 

[GONEWEST]

Its strictly a showring....eye appeal deal then(except for udder shape,structural correctness and disposition). Its not based on data or econonomical traits then. It based on youth projects and show ring stuff eye appeal or the ability to create eye appeal(for instance hair).

AJ Could you give me an example of data or an "econonomical" trait that is more important than the data contained on the face of a check someone gives you for an animal or the $ABA EPD  ? There is none.

 

[GONEWEST]

could be doc.. did you figure that out on your own-- or was it b/c I told everyone who the bull was?  Maybe I got such a great deal on the sticks- I couldn't pass it up...  Bull made like that deserves to be used- I think he's been mated to the wrong kind of cows to produce those birthweights.  He's being promoted for use on BIG cows-- and with BIG cows, comes BIG birthweights.  i think breed him moderate- and don't worry about it.  I was told be prepared to pull all of his calves--- but then again-- it will pay off when you sell them every single day..  Don't worry, i saw plenty of horid long legged, shallow gutless wonders this weekend- almost all sired by brothers to the bull in question on this page.  Bloodstone, Asset, his brothers, and whatever else- i really honestly didn't pay attention- just way broken records.

Didn't ever see where you had said who the bull was. Just saw some childish names under the pics. Man , you sure are a contradiction on so many things. You talk like you are anti show ring & need to "feed grass" only , but yet you are going to use a bull that they say be prepared to pull all the calves. By the way , I hate to break the news to you . He's not a brother to any of those bulls , only a paternal 1/2 brother.

You saw "plenty of horrid, long legged, shallow gutless wonders" out of Asset? I'd guess you're not telling the truth. Nothing unusual there.

yup asset and about 2 other mona liss deals- salute's, bloodstone's, and about three other four letter prefix bulls...

If your going to run someone else's cattle down, could you at least get the genetics right. The guy who post 6 generations of cattle can't look up one bull. NEITHER bull is out of Mona LIsa that you mentioned.  Salute=Solution x Evergreen Sable and Bloodstone= Trump xDesert Rose. You are close with Asset= Solution x Mona LIsa 35L.

Now could you show us one of your AI sires's that has been successful? Or one of your cows that's been successful? Notice COWS not sheep.

The great thing about this country is freedom of choice. Unless your writing a check to pay my cattle bills I would say I can use what ever sires I like in my herd. Those genetics may not be my first choice but WHO CARES they work for some. Is it that your jealous that you haven't achieved what you want with in your own cattle herd that you have to CONTINUALLY run other breeders down?

Reread what I wrote:
yup asset and about 2 other mona liss deals- salute's, bloodstone's, and about three other four letter prefix bulls...
yup asset and about 2 other mona liss deals—Meaning I saw calves from Asset- and two or three other Mona Lisa deals.
salute's,- meaning he’s not a mona lisa deal- but I saw calves by him
bloodstone's- again meaning he’s not an asset deal—but I still saw calves from him—and they were just like the above mentioned—skinny and long legged.
about three other four letter prefix bulls- meaning I had never heard of the bull- didn’t know a pedigree on him—and quite honestly didn’t care to.

Last time I checked there are the following bulls who could be considered Mona Lisa deals:
Coppertop, Red Beast, Roan Blast, and Traveler, -= all Asset sons—the Mona Lisa deal

And then we have Stockman, Primetime, Grey Goose, Eldorado, and Basic Needs, who are direct Mona Lisa deals.

So even though I listed 9 bulls here, plus Asset—makes 10 Mona Lisa deals… but you question my stating I saw calves from three of them plus a couple other four letter bulls…

I’ve had 2 walking bulls that could sell semen—but who cares?  I don’t give a tinker’s damn about selling semen or flushing cows. I don’t have the time to run a bull up to a stud to sit there for a week to get collected—not when he’s needed at home to breed cows.  I guess if I was a hobby tax-right- off shorthorn person- who had midget, crippled, or hard doing bulls that couldn’t cover cows naturally for fear of their corn fed, alfalfa, show feed life being in jeopardy, and then I’d reconsider it. 

What about you OHB?  I don’t recall you selling much semen on your new savior bull—Hell, don’t ever even remember seeing a picture of his midget self…


[/quote]


Would a walking bull be the opposite of a lying bull or a sitting bull? I think a lying bull would be more appropriate for you.

Anyone who has a male bovine that can produce frozen semen has a bull that could sell semen. The question is would anyone want to buy it. The answer pertaining to you and yours is .......duh..........no

 

[aj]

I agree gonewest. I was just trying to differentiate peoples philosophies. If you can sell a 110 # birth weight for 10,000 $ thats great. I'm don't know that the industry needs the cow killer genetics with all the defects. I personally feel the club calf deal has become such a joke. Its almost like showing big poodles or something. It is a business a fairly significant business. I just get a kick out of people talking about "cattleman" raising cattle with phenotypes that are clearly unsustainable spreading genetic defects that that will take centuries to clean up. I think you are special gonewest...you do the show thing..club calves or whatever. I simply asked a question. I felt I was fairly civil. It was " how do you determine what your best ever calf is. I butt heads with some Red Angus breeders that think a good sire is one that has had calves in at least 5 herds and has the Bull to a point of being considered a good sire. They don't invision a calf that is the next best one(every year). They don't do glamour photos' and videos as much. I apologize if I offended evrybody. I just asked a question.

 

[aj]

I think Timeline is a great bull. He won some grand championmaship deal in Canada didn't he?

 

[GONEWEST]

I agree gonewest. I was just trying to differentiate peoples philosophies. If you can sell a 110 # birth weight for 10,000 $ thats great. I'm don't know that the industry needs the cow killer genetics with all the defects. I personally feel the club calf deal has become such a joke. Its almost like showing big poodles or something. It is a business a fairly significant business. I just get a kick out of people talking about "cattleman" raising cattle with phenotypes that are clearly unsustainable spreading genetic defects that that will take centuries to clean up. I think you are special gonewest...you do the show thing..club calves or whatever. I simply asked a question. I felt I was fairly civil. It was " how do you determine what your best ever calf is. I butt heads with some Red Angus breeders that think a good sire is one that has had calves in at least 5 herds and has the Bull to a point of being considered a good sire. They don't invision a calf that is the next best one(every year). They don't do glamour photos' and videos as much. I apologize if I offended evrybody. I just asked a question.

It's not offensive AJ, it's just asinine that there is any philosophy that trumps, no pun intended, the $ABA EPD being most important.

 

[aj]

The thing is that the Beef industry is at least 1000 fold what the club calf deal is. I guess I tend to set the club calf deal aside as a sidebar kinda like raising race horses or something. The beef industry hires alot of people. They buy alot of mineral. The beef industry goes through alot of corn. It takes alot of cattle trucks to haul cattle. They provide alot of by products for manufacturing. The club calf deal is a hobbie. If it disappeared overnight what would the effect be on the nations economy. It would kill the c-section industry and show product industry so that is a factor.

 

[frostback]

The thing is that the Beef industry is at least 1000 fold what the club calf deal is. I guess I tend to set the club calf deal aside as a sidebar kinda like raising race horses or something. The beef industry hires alot of people. They buy alot of mineral. The beef industry goes through alot of corn. It takes alot of cattle trucks to haul cattle. They provide alot of by products for manufacturing. The club calf deal is a hobbie. If it disappeared overnight what would the effect be on the nations economy. It would kill the c-section industry and show product industry so that is a factor.

How does the club calf "deal" matter to this post about purebred shorthorn bull?

 

[frostback]

I think Timeline is a great bull. He won some grand championmaship deal in Canada didn't he?

championmaship ... what is this word?

 

[OH Breeder]

could be doc.. did you figure that out on your own-- or was it b/c I told everyone who the bull was?  Maybe I got such a great deal on the sticks- I couldn't pass it up...  Bull made like that deserves to be used- I think he's been mated to the wrong kind of cows to produce those birthweights.  He's being promoted for use on BIG cows-- and with BIG cows, comes BIG birthweights.  i think breed him moderate- and don't worry about it.  I was told be prepared to pull all of his calves--- but then again-- it will pay off when you sell them every single day..  Don't worry, i saw plenty of horid long legged, shallow gutless wonders this weekend- almost all sired by brothers to the bull in question on this page.  Bloodstone, Asset, his brothers, and whatever else- i really honestly didn't pay attention- just way broken records.

Didn't ever see where you had said who the bull was. Just saw some childish names under the pics. Man , you sure are a contradiction on so many things. You talk like you are anti show ring & need to "feed grass" only , but yet you are going to use a bull that they say be prepared to pull all the calves. By the way , I hate to break the news to you . He's not a brother to any of those bulls , only a paternal 1/2 brother.

You saw "plenty of horrid, long legged, shallow gutless wonders" out of Asset? I'd guess you're not telling the truth. Nothing unusual there.

yup asset and about 2 other mona liss deals- salute's, bloodstone's, and about three other four letter prefix bulls...

If your going to run someone else's cattle down, could you at least get the genetics right. The guy who post 6 generations of cattle can't look up one bull. NEITHER bull is out of Mona LIsa that you mentioned.  Salute=Solution x Evergreen Sable and Bloodstone= Trump xDesert Rose. You are close with Asset= Solution x Mona LIsa 35L.

Now could you show us one of your AI sires's that has been successful? Or one of your cows that's been successful? Notice COWS not sheep.

The great thing about this country is freedom of choice. Unless your writing a check to pay my cattle bills I would say I can use what ever sires I like in my herd. Those genetics may not be my first choice but WHO CARES they work for some. Is it that your jealous that you haven't achieved what you want with in your own cattle herd that you have to CONTINUALLY run other breeders down?

Reread what I wrote:
yup asset and about 2 other mona liss deals- salute's, bloodstone's, and about three other four letter prefix bulls...
yup asset and about 2 other mona liss deals—Meaning I saw calves from Asset- and two or three other Mona Lisa deals.
salute's,- meaning he’s not a mona lisa deal- but I saw calves by him
bloodstone's- again meaning he’s not an asset deal—but I still saw calves from him—and they were just like the above mentioned—skinny and long legged.
about three other four letter prefix bulls- meaning I had never heard of the bull- didn’t know a pedigree on him—and quite honestly didn’t care to.

Last time I checked there are the following bulls who could be considered Mona Lisa deals: See I don't have any learning disabilites Jody. I don't lie and make up names just to get on a forum to belittle and trash people. I came here to learn and discuss things like an adult. I know this is something you struggle with- the adult part. I read exactly what you said. NOTHING ABOUT THE OTHER BULLS YOU RAMBLED ON ABOUTT[/font]
Coppertop, Red Beast, Roan Blast, and Traveler, -= all Asset sons—the Mona Lisa deal

And then we have Stockman, Primetime, Grey Goose, Eldorado, and Basic Needs, who are direct Mona Lisa deals.

So even though I listed 9 bulls here, plus Asset—makes 10 Mona Lisa deals… but you question my stating I saw calves from three of them plus a couple other four letter bulls…

I’ve had 2 walking bulls that could sell semen—but who cares? [font=Verdana[color=red]]I don't think too many people are looking for Red Angus x Jersey x Holstein x Cornish game hen for replacements. You have posted picture of you cattle. Your right no one cares[/color].[/font] I don’t give a tinker’s damn about selling semen or flushing cows. I don’t have the time to run a bull up to a stud to sit there for a week to get collected—not when He's needed at home to breed cows. IF you really knew what it takes to collect a bull, you would know they dont' have to sit there for a week. I have had several bulls collected and they go in and come right back out in the pasture. I guess if I was a hobby tax-right- off shorthorn person- who had midget, crippled, or hard doing bulls that couldn’t cover cows naturally for fear of their corn fed, alfalfa, show feed life being in jeopardy, and then I’d reconsider it.  

What about you OHB?  I don’t recall you selling much semen on your new savior bull—Hell, don’t ever even remember seeing a picture of his midget self…I've known one Saviour in my life and it wasn't an animal. There's alot of good information about him in a book you should revisit. It talks alot about respect for animals, fellow man and lying. When HAVE I EVER RUN SOMEONE"S ELSES CATTLE DOWN IN THIS FORUM PLEASE FIND IT FOR ME. I don't profess to have any SOLUTION like you do. You seem to think you have the world by the balls and aren't even dry behind the ears yet. I could easily collect my bull who is a DIRECT relative  to 4 AI sires currently in AI sire catalogs. I did post a picture of my bull and didn't really ask for your opinion like you said, I don't give a darn what you think. I at least have respect that there are other operations out there that are completely different from mind. In my 40' some odd years I have gotten along just fine with my "little operation". I don't have to come on some internet forum and trash people to make self feel good.


[/quote]

 

[cornish]

Pretty sure you knew that already Jody.

what are you talking about lady?  Get off your dope...

could be doc.. did you figure that out on your own-- or was it b/c I told everyone who the bull was?  Maybe I got such a great deal on the sticks- I couldn't pass it up...  Bull made like that deserves to be used- I think he's been mated to the wrong kind of cows to produce those birthweights.  He's being promoted for use on BIG cows-- and with BIG cows, comes BIG birthweights.  i think breed him moderate- and don't worry about it.  I was told be prepared to pull all of his calves--- but then again-- it will pay off when you sell them every single day..  Don't worry, i saw plenty of horid long legged, shallow gutless wonders this weekend- almost all sired by brothers to the bull in question on this page.  Bloodstone, Asset, his brothers, and whatever else- i really honestly didn't pay attention- just way broken records.

Didn't ever see where you had said who the bull was. Just saw some childish names under the pics. Man , you sure are a contradiction on so many things. You talk like you are anti show ring & need to "feed grass" only , but yet you are going to use a bull that they say be prepared to pull all the calves. By the way , I hate to break the news to you . He's not a brother to any of those bulls , only a paternal 1/2 brother.

You saw "plenty of horrid, long legged, shallow gutless wonders" out of Asset? I'd guess you're not telling the truth. Nothing unusual there.

yup asset and about 2 other mona liss deals- salute's, bloodstone's, and about three other four letter prefix bulls...

If your going to run someone else's cattle down, could you at least get the genetics right. The guy who post 6 generations of cattle can't look up one bull. NEITHER bull is out of Mona LIsa that you mentioned.  Salute=Solution x Evergreen Sable and Bloodstone= Trump xDesert Rose. You are close with Asset= Solution x Mona LIsa 35L.

Now could you show us one of your AI sires's that has been successful? Or one of your cows that's been successful? Notice COWS not sheep.

The great thing about this country is freedom of choice. Unless your writing a check to pay my cattle bills I would say I can use what ever sires I like in my herd. Those genetics may not be my first choice but WHO CARES they work for some. Is it that your jealous that you haven't achieved what you want with in your own cattle herd that you have to CONTINUALLY run other breeders down?

Reread what I wrote:
yup asset and about 2 other mona liss deals- salute's, bloodstone's, and about three other four letter prefix bulls...
yup asset and about 2 other mona liss deals—Meaning I saw calves from Asset- and two or three other Mona Lisa deals.
salute's,- meaning he’s not a mona lisa deal- but I saw calves by him
bloodstone's- again meaning he’s not an asset deal—but I still saw calves from him—and they were just like the above mentioned—skinny and long legged.
about three other four letter prefix bulls- meaning I had never heard of the bull- didn’t know a pedigree on him—and quite honestly didn’t care to.

Last time I checked there are the following bulls who could be considered Mona Lisa deals: See I don't have any learning disabilites Jody. I don't lie and make up names just to get on a forum to belittle and trash people. I came here to learn and discuss things like an adult. I know this is something you struggle with- the adult part. I read exactly what you said. NOTHING ABOUT THE OTHER BULLS YOU RAMBLED ON ABOUTT[/font]
Coppertop, Red Beast, Roan Blast, and Traveler, -= all Asset sons—the Mona Lisa deal

And then we have Stockman, Primetime, Grey Goose, Eldorado, and Basic Needs, who are direct Mona Lisa deals.

So even though I listed 9 bulls here, plus Asset—makes 10 Mona Lisa deals… but you question my stating I saw calves from three of them plus a couple other four letter bulls…

I’ve had 2 walking bulls that could sell semen—but who cares? [font=Verdana[color=red]]I don't think too many people are looking for Red Angus x Jersey x Holstein x Cornish game hen for replacements. You have posted picture of you cattle. Your right no one cares[/color].[/font] I don’t give a tinker’s damn about selling semen or flushing cows. I don’t have the time to run a bull up to a stud to sit there for a week to get collected—not when He's needed at home to breed cows. IF you really knew what it takes to collect a bull, you would know they dont' have to sit there for a week. I have had several bulls collected and they go in and come right back out in the pasture. I guess if I was a hobby tax-right- off shorthorn person- who had midget, crippled, or hard doing bulls that couldn’t cover cows naturally for fear of their corn fed, alfalfa, show feed life being in jeopardy, and then I’d reconsider it. 

What about you OHB?  I don’t recall you selling much semen on your new savior bull—Hell, don’t ever even remember seeing a picture of his midget self…I've known one Saviour in my life and it wasn't an animal. There's alot of good information about him in a book you should revisit. It talks alot about respect for animals, fellow man and lying. When HAVE I EVER RUN SOMEONE"S ELSES CATTLE DOWN IN THIS FORUM PLEASE FIND IT FOR ME. I don't profess to have any SOLUTION like you do. You seem to think you have the world by the balls and aren't even dry behind the ears yet. I could easily collect my bull who is a DIRECT relative  to 4 AI sires currently in AI sire catalogs. I did post a picture of my bull and didn't really ask for your opinion like you said, I don't give a darn what you think. I at least have respect that there are other operations out there that are completely different from mind. In my 40' some odd years I have gotten along just fine with my "little operation". I don't have to come on some internet forum and trash people to make self feel good.

[/quote]

I think it's ironic I breed a Red Angus bull to a couple of heifers- and now i'm a specialist in that department- and that's the only animals I produce- what a dumb ass you are. 

you must not remember the DR. Feelgood bull I bought from Jeff-- I had 100 straws sold on him until he went sterile and we decided to ship him instead.  I've got a Red Maine bull right now that people would die over. 

We've always collected our bulls at home- had Interglobe come down to do it... but you obviously have no idea about sexed semen.  Genex wants to keep the bulls atleast a week to collect it.  We'll probably collect the Maine bull for sexed once he gets off cows for the spring. 

O, darn, time wasted on that reply... let's see what nonsense you can come up with now... 

Those who are jealous- sure don't forget... 

 

[Doc]

I think it's ironic I breed a Red Angus bull to a couple of heifers- and now i'm a specialist in that department- and that's the only animals I produce- what a dumb ass you are. I can assure you that OHB is not a dumb---. Not only is he a very intelligent person , he's definitely got better manners than you.

you must not remember the DR. Feelgood bull I bought from Jeff-- I had 100 straws sold on himI thought you said that you don't give a " tinker d--- about selling semen or flushing a cow" until he went sterile and we decided to ship him instead.  I've got a Red Maine bull right now that people would die over. Well don't show us a picture of him , I would hate for someones' demise to be on your hands.

We've always collected our bulls at home- had Interglobe come down to do it... but you obviously have no idea about sexed semenWho has mentioned sexed semen until now?.  Genex wants to keep the bulls atleast a week to collect it.  We'll probably collect the Maine bull for sexed once he gets off cows for the spring. 

O, darn, time wasted on that reply... let's see what nonsense you can come up with now... 

Those who are jealous- sure don't forget... Boy, that sure is the pot calling the kettle black
[/quote]

 

[OH Breeder]

KF Acres, AKA, BS,  AKA, Feed Grass, AKA Cry Baby AKA kciD need I say more.........." what a dumb ass you are".......You can dish it out but you can't take it can you child. (thumbsup)

 

[cornish]

I think it's ironic I breed a Red Angus bull to a couple of heifers- and now i'm a specialist in that department- and that's the only animals I produce- what a dumb ass you are. I can assure you that OHB is not a dumb---. Not only is he a very intelligent person , he's definitely got better manners than you.

you must not remember the DR. Feelgood bull I bought from Jeff-- I had 100 straws sold on himI thought you said that you don't give a " tinker d--- about selling semen or flushing a cow" until he went sterile and we decided to ship him instead.  I've got a Red Maine bull right now that people would die over. Well don't show us a picture of him , I would hate for someones' demise to be on your hands.

We've always collected our bulls at home- had Interglobe come down to do it... but you obviously have no idea about sexed semenWho has mentioned sexed semen until now?.  Genex wants to keep the bulls atleast a week to collect it.  We'll probably collect the Maine bull for sexed once he gets off cows for the spring. 

O, darn, time wasted on that reply... let's see what nonsense you can come up with now... 

Those who are jealous- sure don't forget... Boy, that sure is the pot calling the kettle black

[/quote]

Don't have a picture of the Maine bull

Collect the semen for our own personal use, insurance policy.