Shorthorn X Red Angus heifers

[RankeCattleCo]

Personally I feel the best part about breeding to Monopoly is that either sex is versatile, especially in your case where it would be 50% Angus and 25% Shorthorn. I feel that Monopoly is one of the few exceptions in the club calf industry of a bull that can throw a heifer that will show well and be a decently successful cow for you, especially if the calves dam is bred maternally.

 

[RankeCattleCo]

That being said, Monopoly or Monopoly Money are the only two clubbies I feel are worth using on this set of heifers. 3/4 Angus or some Simmi F1's out of heifers like that are much more valuable than say a Walks Alone (Or any other clubby bull for that matter) sired heifer. Wouldn't mind seeing some Firewater cross calves out of a group like that either  <rock>

 

[RyanChandler]

It would be an abomination to use one of those mongrelized, dwarf-bulls on such a fine set of cattle. 

 

[librarian]

I like the Charolais idea. Durham Buckskins. It would be interesting to have a set of half sisters to those heifers out of a Charolais sire, and then put a Bonanza son onto them. Then onward.

 

[RankeCattleCo]

It would be an abomination to use one of those mongrelized, dwarf-bulls on such a fine set of cattle.

Do you not read? I clearly said that there was 2 club calf sires worth using on these cows, both Angus descendent. I also went on to say that a calf out of any non clubby bull would be a much more valuable calf versus any clubby sired calf.

Read before you rant please.

 

[RyanChandler]

It would be an abomination to use one of those mongrelized, dwarf-bulls on such a fine set of cattle.

Do you not read? I clearly said that there was 2 club calf sires worth using on these cows, both Angus descendent. I also went on to say that a calf out of any non clubby bull would be a much more valuable calf versus any clubby sired calf.

Read before you rant please.

If my comment had been directed directly towards you, I would have quoted your comment- as I've done here.  But since I didn't, you should have inferred that it was only a general statement about using mongrelized, dwarf bulls over highly-superior, functional seed stock.    The two traits I value most in these heifers are capacity and the inferred prepotency (as noted by their consistency); both of which would be compromised using a clubby bull- even an Angus 'derivative'  (lol)

 

[RankeCattleCo]

You have a large market for maternal backed show heifers basically anywhere you go. I'm just starting that calves out of these cows that have that show ring look appeal to many potential buyers.

 

[Okotoks]

They look like a nice group of heifers. Maybe I have just had some bad experiences with Red Angus dispositions but with some of the ones I've been involved with I just don't get their popularity. A few years ago a neighbor had me take a group of shorthorn cows to put with 150 red angus steers that were spooking and going through some pretty good fences that had held everything before. They did quiet down when the cows didn't spook and run but they couldn't take any pressure. We have 18 purebred red angus recips here right now most came from a ranch setting but there are still 3 that jump up and run away whenever you go out to check which is several times a day in this weather. The black angus and simmie recips have settled right in. I had to help a neighbor pull a calf from a Red Angus and she was trying to kill us before we got the calf out. Maybe I am just getting old but I think there are some bloodlines that are plain nasty and to me disposition is important. Like the neighbors yearling bull that turned on us when we were loading him on a trailer last spring, then he tried to take the neighbor a few days later when he was herding him with a quad. I personally wouldn't want any after this year. I'm sure if you get the right bloodlines there would be fewer issues. That said crossed with Bonanza son you would probably get awesome cows.

 

[Judge]

X bar those heifers look as good as they do because they are angus decedents, you won't find a group of pure shorthorns that look that good. You lol at all the good show cattle now a days a lot of them have angus in them

 

[RyanChandler]

X bar those heifers look as good as they do because they are angus decedents, you won't find a group of pure shorthorns that look that good. You lol at all the good show cattle now a days a lot of them have angus in them

Absolutely. But a 'derivative' -angus or otherwise- isn't quite what I'd be looking for.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Niether pure Shorthorns nor pure Angus look as good as their descendents in various breeds or crosses-thats a positive thing. It is in thier genetic makeup to cross so well-thats why so many breeds of cattle go back to Angus and Shorthorns-with Angus being descended from Shorthorns-Temperments not-withstanding-the Angus x Shorthorn cross has historically been a great one ACROSS THE BOARD-EBEN Do da Black Boyz don like dat. Ive had Simms, Angus,Charolais and especially Limmis that could be flat dangerous-along with the occaisional mean Shorthorn.Even Herefords-you need to know em no matter what breed. O0

 

[Judge]

That is so far out there mark I have seen lots of herds of angus especially black that are a better group.you guys can sit here and say these breeds are betterwith angus in them because its the best of both worlds but angus can stand on there own without other breeds the angus have made simmies thy have made limos and even the new chars.

 

[JTM]

That is so far out there mark I have seen lots of herds of angus especially black that are a better group.you guys can sit here and say these breeds are betterwith angus in them because its the best of both worlds but angus can stand on there own without other breeds the angus have made simmies thy have made limos and even the new chars.

In what context can Angus stand on it's own and compare with crossbred heterosis? I'm going to agree with you that some Black Angus lines can perform next to crossbred cattle in growth but I think there is much more behind the scenes in this scenario that needs to be brought to light. Docility, feed conversion, more consistent marbling, more choice carcasses, better udders, and better fertility are a few things that come to mind when comparing Shorthorn x Angus cross vs. purebred Angus. The problem with Angus is that black no longer means Angus and there is suffering consistency on choice carcasses. The commercial industry will have to start recognizing the need for Shorthorn influence eventually or value will suffer.
Coyote, those heifers are extremely nice!

 

[turning grass into beef]

X bar those heifers look as good as they do because they are angus decedents, you won't find a group of pure shorthorns that look that good. You lol at all the good show cattle now a days a lot of them have angus in them

If you truly feel that you can't find a group of pure shorthorn heifers that look that good then I suspect that you are not looking in the right places.  Look for them in herds that raise shorthorns for the purpose of raising beef cattle, not show cattle, and you will find them.

 

[Judge]

JTM Ill give you a few points on the angus such as some bloodlines are getting to be a tad hyper but that is all you have. The angus cattle have some of the most sought after udders and maternal traits of all the breeds, same with carcass traits and feed conversion, I will post a list of bulls on test and we can compare the other breeds to the angus. I will bet you the angus convert better than all the breeds at least purebreds, which brings me to the fact that these comercial cattle are mostly angus descendants. Let's take simmentals for example they are no longer the throaty heavy milking animals they used to be,now they are clean fronted tighter udderd and mostly black with the odd dash of white here and there.now the shorthorns for example have a whole bunch of interesting stuff in them such as Maine, Lincoln red, red angus and who knows what else as you can breed them up to become so called shorthorns.

 

[Judge]

So my question to you is, is the shorthorns and other breeds besides angus really the breed they say they are or are they adding what they need to make them better

 

[TPX]

They look like a nice group of heifers. Maybe I have just had some bad experiences with Red Angus dispositions but with some of the ones I've been involved with I just don't get their popularity. A few years ago a neighbor had me take a group of shorthorn cows to put with 150 red angus steers that were spooking and going through some pretty good fences that had held everything before. They did quiet down when the cows didn't spook and run but they couldn't take any pressure. We have 18 purebred red angus recips here right now most came from a ranch setting but there are still 3 that jump up and run away whenever you go out to check which is several times a day in this weather. The black angus and simmie recips have settled right in. I had to help a neighbor pull a calf from a Red Angus and she was trying to kill us before we got the calf out. Maybe I am just getting old but I think there are some bloodlines that are plain nasty and to me disposition is important. Like the neighbors yearling bull that turned on us when we were loading him on a trailer last spring, then he tried to take the neighbor a few days later when he was herding him with a quad. I personally wouldn't want any after this year. I'm sure if you get the right bloodlines there would be fewer issues. That said crossed with Bonanza son you would probably get awesome cows.

Disposition I find is based more on the owner and how they handle there cattle.  We find that to many people around here don't spend enough time walking through there cows on foot or by horse and the only time they see there cattle is when they are in their truck, tractor, quad or side by side and then they are shocked that there cattle freak out when they try to handle them.  I personally like having the Red Angus because of their little bit of edgeness when they calve I consider it a maternal strength and it results in calves that are up right away and sucking.  We use to raise shorthorns and this wasn't the case some were good mothers and others were absolutely horrible added to the fact of inconsistent birth weights and calves that had no try and we had to make the decision to get out of that breed. 

 

[ruhtram]

They look like a nice group of heifers. Maybe I have just had some bad experiences with Red Angus dispositions but with some of the ones I've been involved with I just don't get their popularity. A few years ago a neighbor had me take a group of shorthorn cows to put with 150 red angus steers that were spooking and going through some pretty good fences that had held everything before. They did quiet down when the cows didn't spook and run but they couldn't take any pressure. We have 18 purebred red angus recips here right now most came from a ranch setting but there are still 3 that jump up and run away whenever you go out to check which is several times a day in this weather. The black angus and simmie recips have settled right in. I had to help a neighbor pull a calf from a Red Angus and she was trying to kill us before we got the calf out. Maybe I am just getting old but I think there are some bloodlines that are plain nasty and to me disposition is important. Like the neighbors yearling bull that turned on us when we were loading him on a trailer last spring, then he tried to take the neighbor a few days later when he was herding him with a quad. I personally wouldn't want any after this year. I'm sure if you get the right bloodlines there would be fewer issues. That said crossed with Bonanza son you would probably get awesome cows.

Disposition I find is based more on the owner and how they handle there cattle.  We find that to many people around here don't spend enough time walking through there cows on foot or by horse and the only time they see there cattle is when they are in their truck, tractor, quad or side by side and then they are shocked that there cattle freak out when they try to handle them.  I personally like having the Red Angus because of their little bit of edgeness when they calve I consider it a maternal strength and it results in calves that are up right away and sucking.  We use to raise shorthorns and this wasn't the case some were good mothers and others were absolutely horrible added to the fact of inconsistent birth weights and calves that had no try and we had to make the decision to get out of that breed.

I like your point Scott. Human interaction is a lot of times over looked.

 

[aj]

It's pretty hard to argue that the Simmental breed is trying to look like the Angus. Also the Limi's, Maines, Gelbvieh, and on and on. There is a local Simmental sale here that has half the bulls selling are 50% Black Angus.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

That is so far out there mark I have seen lots of herds of angus especially black that are a better group.you guys can sit here and say these breeds are betterwith angus in them because its the best of both worlds but angus can stand on there own without other breeds the angus have made simmies thy have made limos and even the new chars.

/// Im talking about the cattle I like:and ones Ive raised and Ive seen blue roans etc both commercial and other wise that were superior to thier parents along with some other crosses; and Ive seen alot of different herds that could stand on thier own-Shorthorns made Angus,Maines,and 58 other breeds of cattle-etc, etc,so beauty and function are in the eye of the beholder-There arent alot of them in the US and purebred Shorthorns dont currantly have the performance of Angus-But with all the hype and numbers purebred Angus usually cant compete in the showring against alot of breeds even though they are by far the most influential cattle in this country,Maines dont have large numbers but have also had an enormous effect upon alot of cattle,so to each his own-My Short crosses with different breeds were generally improvements,and I think x-breeding adds and proves alot of the things mentioned here by other responders-if thats far out-then so are a lot of people on here. In other words,when other guys complement your cattle for thier reasons-dont cop a superior attitude-good cattle are good cattle and I respect everyones efforts as such.O0